Exactly, I have learnt to let go of self and let God move in me, as you say, apart from the Holy Spirit,I can do NOTHING!!...in Jesus Name!..Amen!!
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Yes.
We dont have to try to be a Christian, because we are already a Son/Daughter of God for eternity.
Its done.
We are THERE. = Born Again.
Now, we let God's power empower us, as we REST in the Grace of God.
Listen.
When Jesus was finished saving us with his Cross, then He went to heaven and SAT DOWN. "on the right had of God".
JOB COMPLETED, = sat down, rested...done.
And we, now having BEEN SAVED, stop trying to do it, and REST in God's Grace.
Paul wrote 13 epistles, or a bit more then half of the New Testament, and he never wrote a verse that said..>>"today i confessed my sin".
And that is at least 30 yrs of Epistles.
He didnt have to confess anyting...., as Jesus is His "eternal one time sacrifice for sin". Paul was "made free from sin", and wrote the verse, reader.
He wrote these verses im giving you.
And a person says..>"well, if you believe that God does not hold you accountable for sin,.. that Jesus died for them all..... then you'll just feel free to live like the Devil".
Not at all....
WRONG ANSWER.
In fact, the opposite happens...
Once you realize you are kept holy and made righteous by God's Grace,= The Cross of Christ, .....then you stop fighting yourself, and find that what you were trying to do, and could not..... becomes God's power for you to do it.
Paul teaches... us that "Christ ALWAYS gives me the Victory" over the world, the flesh, and the devil.
Getting the Revelation that we are kept righteous by the Blood and Death of Jesus, forever..... does not make you want to go and sin.
This TRUTH......actually frees you to live HOLY, it literally makes your heart love God more and more.
Sin consciousness, fades, fades, and fades, and you find that your mind is different.....its changed...its become "renewed".
We become like the Harlot who "was forgiven much"..... and crawled on her hands and knees to the feet of Beautiful Jesus, in Public, and washed His feet with her tears and dried them with her hair.
See that sinner's REACTION to being = "FORGIVEN MUCH"?
And we have been forgiven ALL OUR SIN, forever........ and that REVELATION Knowledge causes us to want to serve God more, not less, but MORE AND MORE.
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Johann
Well-Known Member
A cursory reading through 1 and 2 Corinthians and you will find a lot of "problems" there, and yet carnal as most were, they are still called saints.
Also, there's a warfare going on, and we need to have the panoplia of God on since our wrestling in NOT against blood and flesh-
"Put on the full armor of God" This is an AORIST MIDDLE IMPERATIVE which conveys a sense of urgency (cf. Eph. 6:13). This refers to a decisive act of the believer's will. God has provided our needed spiritual equipment, but we must
recognize the need
avail ourselves of God's provision
apply it to our daily lives (cf. 1 Thess. 5:8)
Justification (Romans 4; 6) does not provide a deliverance from spiritual struggle and temptation (cf. Romans 7). The presence of the "new man" does not imply the total removal of the "old man." Often the battle is intensified. If Satan cannot keep us from being saved, he will attempt to keep us spiritually defeated and silenced!
"that you will be able to stand firm" This is a PRESENT PASSIVE INFINITIVE followed by an AORIST ACTIVE INFINITIVE, which refers to the daily struggle, not one decisive "battle" or temptation (this is similar to Jesus' temptation in Luke 4:13, where Satan departs until a more opportune time).
The term "stand" is a military term for holding one's position. It is repeated in Eph. 6:13 and 14. It is the key purpose of the believer's armor.
NASB "against the schemes of the devil"
NKJV, NRSV, Peshitta "against the wiles of the devil"
TEV "against the devil's evil tricks"
NJB "the devil's tactics"
Christians are attacked by an angelic tempter, Satan (cf. Eph. 2:2; 4:14,27; 2 Cor. 2:11; 1 Pet. 5:8-9). Satan uses many schemes (methodia).
disunity
personal sin
false teachers
discouragement
apathy
suffering
These are just some things that the recipients of this letter faced. However, believers cannot attribute all sin and problems to angelic temptation or attack. Fallen mankind, even redeemed fallen mankind, faces
a continuing sin nature
a fallen world system
an angelic and demonic attack (cf. Eph. 2:2-3; James. 4:1,4,7)
The battle starts in the mind but moves quickly to sinful acts.
Notice the numbers of times "against" appears in this context (once in v.11 and fives times in Eph. 6:12). The panoply of evil is thwarted by the panoply of God's armor!
6:12
NASB, NRSV "our struggle is not"
NKJV "we do not wrestle"
TEV "we are not fighting against"
NJB "we have to struggle"
Peshitta "our conflict is not only with"
This is a PRESENT TENSE VERB which implies an ongoing struggle, not a one-time temptation. This was either military or athletic imagery. It literally refers to hand-to-hand combat (i.e., in war or in the Olympic Games). The Christian life is tough! The Christian life is a supernatural gift lived out by repentance and faith, as is salvation.
"against flesh and blood" The word order is literally "blood and flesh." Notice the abnormal sequence of these terms. It is found only here and in Heb. 2:14. The reason is uncertain, but it may be related to the Gnostic false teachers' depreciation of the physical (Jesus' humanity).
The battle is real, hard, tough and not for lazy sofa Christians.
The most carnal believers in the entire bible are the "Corinthians".
They fought endlessly.
They had incest issue in their church.
They didn't know they had the Holy Spirit in them.
They worried About "Gifts of the Spirit" as babies always want a gift.
Paul said of the sin nature that it is "crucified with Christ" and we are to "reckon it dead".
"Being NOW made free from sin", is a result of the Cross of Christ and the "old man of sin" (sin nature) being "Crucified with Christ".
The Christian has a new nature, because the old one is Dead. "Crucified"
The result of the New Nature (born again) is to have become "A new Creation IN Christ'.
'""""Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."""
The old that has passed away includes the "old man of sin" (sin nature)
Christians who are found here..... are not in their renewed mind, yet.
Hebrews 6:1
"""""""Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,""""""
And Are found as this....
"That which i would do i can't, and that which i dont want to do, i do".
The believer who has understood the revelation of who they have become "in Christ", are here...
"As many as be perfect"
"Christ always gives me the Victory".
Johann
Well-Known Member
Brother-I simply cannot agree with you on this point.
Warren Wiersbe writes that…
All of us struggle with sin. Human nature pulls us down as gravity does, yet God has made us and saved us to lift us up (1Jn 1:5-2:6). There are three ways we may deal with our sins.
Cover them. We cover our sins with our words. This is lying-- deceiving others and ourselves and lying to God. Lies are darkness, whereas God's truth is light. When we lie, our character erodes (Pr 28:13). When we cover sin, we lose God's light, fellowship and character. (Ed: We cover our sins by making excuses for them and by refusing to come to the light where they may be exposed. Some "cover" their sin by trying to have it legalized by the laws of the land, so they can sin shamelessly. Some "cover" their sin by blaming someone else. Some "cover" their sin by simply [deceptively] denying it.)
Confess them. Admit and judge them--agree with God about your sin. This involves the heart and the will (Ed: The Lord will not despise a broken and contrite heart - this is the heart that is willing to confess! Ps 51:17-note).
Some people have died because they repeatedly, willfully, proudly and arrogantly defied the will of God. Admit you are a sinner, say what is wrong and then come to Him and name it. Confess your sin only in the circle of those influenced by it--individuals or family. (Don't become an exhibitionist with the public.) Confession brings release, freedom, forgiveness and a new beginning.
Conquer them. Jesus is in heaven today as our Advocate--as a Lawyer before the Father. Abide in Him, love Him, walk with Him in the light of His Word. Keep His commandments. Fellowship is a by-product of our walk with God. To love Him is to serve Him and obey His commandments.
Are you covering sin or conquering sin in your life? Confess any known sin and ask God to clean your heart. He wants to forgive you so He can restore fellowship with you (Psalm 51:1-2 The High Cost of Committing Sin).
Adam Clarke on how men cover their transgressions…
They are conscious that they are doing wrong, and they try to cover and conceal what they are doing. They resort to a variety of expedients. Some flatly deny them. Others cover their sins by evasion, or they shift the blame off upon others. Some plead their weakness, and the circumstances in which they were placed. Many plead the practice of others. It is the custom of the trade. The vilest class attempt to cover their sins by glorying in them.
J R Miller…
"Cleanse me from hidden faults." (Ps 19:12) They are secret sins which men commit, and of which they know. They think no one else knows of them. Perhaps their friends do not suspect that they are guilty of any secret sin. They wear the white garment of a fair reputation, while under it are foul spots they would not have anyone see. But such sins are not really secret. No sin can be hidden from God.
Hidden sins
are open to the eye of God.
The worst thing any man can do with his sins—is to try to cover them up, to keep on committing them—but concealing them. The only safe thing to do—is to confess them and put them out of your life. "The one who conceals his sins will not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them will find mercy." Proverbs 28:13
Thomas Watson - The curtain-sinner - A godly man does not indulge himself in any sin.
Though sin lives in him—yet he does not live in sin. A godly man may step into sin through infirmity—but he does not keep on that road.
What is it to indulge sin? To indulge sin is to give the breast to it and feed it. To indulge sin is to commit it with delight. The ungodly "delight in wickedness," 2 Thess. 2:12. In this sense, a godly man does not indulge sin. Though sin is in him—he is troubled at it and would gladly get rid of it.
There is as much difference between sin in the wicked, and sin in the godly—as between poison being in a serpent, and poison being in a man. Poison in a serpent is in its natural place and is delightful—but poison in a man's body is harmful and he uses antidotes to expel it. So sin in a wicked man is delightful, being in its natural place—but sin in a child of God is burdensome and he uses all means to expel it.
A godly man will not allow himself in secret sins. Some are more modest than to commit open gross sin. That would be a stain on their reputation. All will not sin on a balcony—but perhaps they will sin behind the curtain!
But a godly man dare not sin secretly, for he knows that God can neither be deceived by our subtlety, nor excluded by our secrecy. He knows that secret sins are in some sense worse than others. They reveal more deceit and atheism. "He knows the secrets of every heart," Psalm 44:21.
But the curtain-sinner thinks that God does not see: "Have you seen what the leaders of Israel are doing with their idols in dark rooms? They are saying—The Lord doesn't see us!" Ezek. 8:12. How it provokes God, that men's atheism should give the lie to His omniscience! "He who formed the eye—shall He not see?" Psalm 94:9.
A godly man knows that secret sins shall not escape God's justice. A judge on the bench cannot punish the treason of the heart. But the sins of the heart are as visible to God, as if they were written upon the forehead! As God will reward secret duties; so He will revenge secret sins!
A godly man enters his protest against sin: "Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin?" Romans 7:24. A child of God, while he commits sin, hates the sin he commits!
Not being facetious with you @Behold but the closer I live/yield to God in Christ, the more I realize it is all of Him, none of self.
Paul didnt struggle with sin, but he did give a Testimony of struggling with the law, that was empowering his sin...but he later explained how that is resolved.
The "struggle" isn't with Sin........because the Born again, are "redeemed from Sin" and "God does not charge the born again with sin".
So, the issue is not "struggle with sin" .... the struggle is with wrong understanding of what it means to be "but NOW being made free from sin".
"Warren" does not know what he's talking about.
He states that sin is in "IN the Believer" and Brother if you have your sin, then Jesus does not, and no person goes to Heaven with sin.
"confessing sin" does not get rid of sin.....Its only the Cross of Christ that gets rid of it.
So, whomever Warren is talking about, is not born again.
So, i have no idea who this is, but, close his book, and for good.
He is still dealing with Sin, that Christ dealt with 2000 yrs ago.
He has not yet done what Paul told Him to do, and what is worse, is that His Theology, leads you to not understand Cross of Christ, correctly.
Warren, has not "reckon the old man dead"......Warren is still living in the carnal mind of the flesh, and that is where you fight against the Law and "the law is the power of sin".
The believer can't manifest the Holy walk, when they try to live holy., as that is trying to DO Christianity, instead of God doing it through you.
The born again, can't defeat their sin, .. they have to be delivered from it by the Blood of Jesus.
"Christ always give me the Victory", denies Warran's theology of "im a sinner, i have sin, ""
That's really dark theology that person is sharing.
Johann
Well-Known Member
We rest from trying to save ourselves.
We Trust that Jesus has accomplished that on the Cross.
And in this TRUST that our Salvation, which is the Grace of God.... and that not "of ourselves", but is "the Gift of Salvation"... we have received, then we go out and live the righteousness that we have become , in Christ.
Christianity is to become "One with God"....in the Spirit, and now God by His Spirit empowers us.
When I’m out and about, the Holy Spirit uses me as his vessel, to spread the Love of Christ, he leads me to people and his Spirit in me, brings God into nearly every conversation....that is my opinion and belief.
I am a disciple of Christ and I have been called to spread the good news....God is Alive and Active....he knows and sees everything.
The power of which Jesus spoke is none other than the Holy Spirit himself, who personally fills Christian believers with a measure of his presence and who empowers them for gospel ministry. Without the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, all gospel ministry is to no avail.
@Behold is a prime example as being used by God to spread the word of Christ.thats his ministry/ calling,imo/ belief.
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Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I disagree, but I think that you've brought up some very valid points in this discussion. It does seem that Paul glosses over the very real differences between the Law and Grace as dispensational systems. Paul clearly distinguishes the Law and Grace as a means of Eternal Life, but with respect to Righteousness, he doesn't appear to distinguish Law and Grace as "systems" as much.
Perhaps this is logical because Paul was a Jew, and was reaching out to Jews. To depreciate the Law as a system of Righteousness was never Jesus' purpose, as he indicated while he ministered under the Old Covenant. Jesus said he had not come to depose Righteousness under the Law. Rather, he intended to turn Righteousness into something that could achieve Eternal Life through his own Atonement.
Matt 5.17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
Here, Jesus is ministering while still under the Law, and he appears to make the Law equal to God's eternal Word. But in context, he is saying that it is a Covenant, and that from God's point of view, He will be faithful to it, even as Israel is surely going to destroy it. God's faithfulness is eternal, and even if that Covenant is broken, God will find a way to fulfill His promises to Israel.
But we quickly forget this context, that Jesus indicated Israel would utterly fail this Covenant of Law. Righteousness would continue forever, even as God is eternally faithful to His Word. But the Law as a system and as a covenant was going to go away with the destruction of the temple, and even before, with the rejection and death of the Jewish Messiah.
So not even the Law provides Christians with Sanctification. It does, however, serve as an eternal testimony to the righteousness and faithfulness of God to His promises. As a system we are absolutely *not* under the Law, whether Jew or Gentile. As a system, it utterly failed and was never meant to bring about Eternal Life. That system was always intended by God to lead to a new system that could, in fact, bring about Eternal Life.
We can learn about what Righteousness was under a now outdated system. Those principles are eternal, although the system itself was *not* eternal. We no longer observe (as Jews) temple, priest, or sacrifice. We only serve Christ. But the righteousness that is in Christ was present under the Law--we just have to let go of all aspects concerning the Law as a system. Perhaps that's some of what you're trying to say?
Jesus said, "not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
This did not mean that all 613 requirements of the Law would continue indefinitely, including in the NT era. Rather, Jesus indicated that God's faithfulness as well as His righteousness would continue forever, particularly as it was being *fulfilled in Jesus.*
"I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them," Jesus said.
Luke 24.25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
Every jot and tittle of the Law spoke of the righteousness of Christ. The system of Law contained imagery, using temporal material, to project an eternal Righteousness of God as fulfilled in Christ. It was not the "jots and tittles" that were eternal--they would never pass only in the sense of their rightful fulfillment *in Jesus.*
Heb 8.5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”....
Heb 10.1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves.
Keep in mind that Jesus was saying, in Matt 5, not that the jots and tittles would remain forever, until the heavens pass away, but rather, that the jots and tittles would not pass *from the Law* as a system until the heavens pass away. So the system of Law will never be disparaged, nor diluted--it will always testify to its fulfillment in Christ. And this happened at the cross, well before the end of the universe!
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Johann
Well-Known Member
It's good to disagree brother, but when it comes to the nomos/entole/mitzvot and laws in the Pauline epistles, what I have posted makes "sense" to me, at least-as long as we can agree to disagree without "fighting"
I'm not a dogmatic kind of person and will always consider the opposing view/s-
In my view, understanding the different contexts in which Paul spoke of the law resolves the tension. When he spoke of the law in the context of salvation (justification, right standing before God), he clearly affirmed that law-keeping is of no avail (Rom. 3:20). On the other hand, when Paul spoke of the law in the context of Christian conduct (sanctification, right living before God), then he maintained the value and validity of God's law (chaps. 7:7-12; 13:8-10; 1 Cor. 7:19). For example, when Paul listed the various forms of human wickedness in 1 Timothy 1:8-10, he explicitly asserted, "We know that the law is good" (verse 8).
Central to Paul's understanding of the law is the cross of Christ. From this perspective he both negated and affirmed the law. He repudiated the law as the basis of justification: "If justification were through the law, then Christ died to no purpose" (Gal. 2:21). But he taught that the law is "holy," "just," "good," and "spiritual" (Rom. 7:12, 14, 16; 1 Tim. 1:8) because it exposes sin and reveals God's ethical standards. Thus he stated that Christ came "in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us" through the dynamic power of His Spirit (Rom. 8:4).
Three times Paul said: "Neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision." Each time he concluded this statement with a different phrase: "but keeping the commandments of God," "but faith working through love," "but a new creation" (1 Cor. 7:19; Gal. 5:6; 6:15). The parallel ism suggests that Paul equated the keeping of God's commandments with a working faith and a new life in Christ. He rejected the law as a method of salvation but upheld it as a standard for Christian conduct.
You may want to read the link
Paul and the law
Paul's apparently contradictory statements about the law can be explained by distinguishing between his moral and soteriological usages of the law in his writings. He rejected the law as a method of salvation but upheld it as, a moral standard of Christian conduct.
www.ministrymagazine.org
Johann
Well-Known Member
Agree, but I am very careful on the topic of "law" it brings divisions and schism among the brethren and to be blunt with you, I am still learning and find Dr. Bob Utley, a professor in hermeneutics, helpful in my personal growth in Christ Jesus.
"shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished"
NKJV, Peshitta "will by no means pass. . .till all is fulfilled"
NRSV "will pass. . .until all is accomplished"
TEV "will not be done away with—until the end of all things"
NJB "is to disappear. . .until all its purpose is achieved"
REB "will disappear from the Law until all that must happen has happened"
The first term usually referred to destroying something by pulling it down, like a wall. The second term was used in Matt. 1:22 to fulfill, as in accomplishing its declared function. Although this term had several other meanings in other parts of the NT, here it speaks of the OT finding its completion in Christ. Jesus' teachings are like the new wine that cannot be contained in the old wine skins (cf. Matt. 9:16-17).
This fulfillment referred to Jesus' life, death, resurrection, second coming, judgment, and eternal reign, which are, in some sense, incipient in the Old Testament. The OT points to Christ and His work. The Apostles interpreted the OT in a typological or Christological sense! The NT is about Jesus, not Israel!
Johann.
Paul actually refutes the law as a means to eternal life, and says that if you teach that the law, keeping the law, is a means of salvation, then you are teaching a "cursed of God" gospel. Galatians 1:8
Paul was a Jew, but His specific ministry was to the Gentiles.... Paul is the "Apostle to the Gentiles" in the "time of the Gentiles".
He did deal with Jews, many times.
IN Acts 28:28, which is a mirror of Hebrews 10:26, Paul tells the Jews he is done with them.
Johann
Well-Known Member
1.) Jesus had to fulfill the law so that He had accomplished all that was required of God, on our behalf, so that he could then go to the Cross, having fulfilled all, and then die for our sin.
2.) So, He fulfilled all the law and kept all the commandments for us, because we didnt, ....= ""all have sinned""".... and then he died for our sin. And by fulfilling them, he could abolish them as...
"Christ is the END Of the LAW for Righteousness". "Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE of the Law".
3.) Jesus had to complete the OT prophecies, concerning Himself, and that included fulfilling the Law.
= Jesus said to John the Baptist...."""" that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the LAW of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."""""
Johann
Well-Known Member
Including the jot and tittle-all fulfilled in Christ.
Mat 5:18 For, omein, truly I say to you, until Shomayim and haaretz pass away, not one yod, not one tag (ornamental flourish), will pass from the Torah until everything is accomplished.
Yes.
Jesus is the 2nd Adam, = CORRECTING for all of US...... what the 1st Adam caused and lost.
Adam put us under the law, because God had to bring the Law to deal with the FALL of us ALL, that Adam began.
Jesus came to restore us back to God, = "Not under the Law, but under Grace".
1st Adam, lost it all and 2nd Adam, Jesus, got it all back for us.
2nd Adam, brings us Salvation through the Cross....that eternally returns us...restores us = to the initial SONSHIP ETERNAL relationship that Adam had with God in the Garden before Adam lost it.
To become a CHRISTian, is to become just like ADAM , before he fell.
Sinless.
Son of God
Having Eternal life
One with God
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