Made of Show of Them Openly

[marks]

I assume you would understand the context does not relate to the fanciful notions of supernatural powers and the like!

Do you not believe in angels, and unclean spirits, and the like?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I'm not trying to sound like a "know it all" since I'm not-all glory and boasting to and in Christ-and our Abba.
Also, I don't want to "flood" your thread brother-keep me in check.
J.

I value your contributions. Anyone who doesn't want to read these is free to skip over them, but I read them.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You still copying and pasting Johann?
You will never grow spiritually if you dont put these away and look at the text for yourself.
F2F

What makes you think he doesn't?

Much love!

 

[marks]

If you say Jesus didnt benefit from his own blood, then what did he secure? And if he didnt secure eternal redemption for himself, how can you take part in his life/sacrifice by faith?

Are you saying that Jesus secured redemption for himself through his death? Please be clear.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

He condemned the sin of men and the condemnation took place in the flesh of Jesus. If the article tēn had been repeated before en tēi sarki Paul would have affirmed sin in the flesh of Jesus, but he carefully avoided that (Robertson, Grammar, p. 784).

Correct.

Jesus was held under the law of sin and death in his own nature.

Can you see the ramifications of such a belief?

 

[face2face]

Do you not believe in angels, and unclean spirits, and the like?

Much love!

Angels absolutely. When you say unclean spirits are you referring to someone like Legion?

 

[face2face]

What makes you think he doesn't?

Much love!

I've noticed he copies and paste's large volume's of text in his post's....usually growth comes from working truth out for yourself. 2 timothy 2:15

 

[face2face]

Are you saying that Jesus secured redemption for himself through his death? Please be clear.

Much love!

I am not saying this Marks - the Apostle Paul wrote precisely that.

Let me ask you this question.

Could Jesus have entered the Holy of Hollies without the shedding of his blood?

He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.

And if you believe

In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence.

Do you know what redemption means Marks?
Do you know what it means to be saved from death?

How did God remove the condemnation from Jesus?

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, Romans 8:1

Why Now?

And what was before?

Jesus was condemned to die because he had the same nature as you - end of story!

 

[face2face]

How did Christ condemn sin? In the flesh-or nature?

We need to be careful in our wording.
Condemned sin in the flesh (katekrine tēn hamartian en tēi sarki). First aorist active indicative of katakrinō. He condemned the sin of men and the condemnation took place in the flesh of Jesus. If the article tēn had been repeated before en tēi sarki Paul would have affirmed sin in the flesh of Jesus, but he carefully avoided that (Robertson, Grammar, p. 784).

Heb 10:5 Therefore, when he comes into the Olam Hazeh, he says "ZEVACH UMINCHAH LO CHAFATZTA ("sacrifice and offering" Ps 40:7 (6) You did not desire but a body you prepared for me; (Ps 39:7 TARGUM HA-SHIVIM)

Here is the issue Johann - How can God condemn sin in the nature of Jesus Christ if its not represented in him? If Jesus is held under the condemnation of the law of sin and death, which he must be to have it condemned through his death on the tree. God required a sacrifice without spot and blemish, one who willingly died to uphold God's Righteousness. Only on this basis can God have the Victory! Only on this basis can man and women be saved.

 

[marks]

I've noticed he copies and paste's large volume's of text in his post's....usually growth comes from working truth out for yourself. 2 timothy 2:15

How does that fact that he copies from other site signify to you that he doesn't do his own study and learning? One does not negate the other. I think you are just making that assumption.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I am not saying this Marks - the Apostle Paul wrote precisely that.

Let me ask you this question.

I'm not going to be discussing doctrine with you.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Jesus was condemned to die because he had the same nature as you - end of story!

That's why I'm not discussing doctrine with you. Were Jesus a man corrupted by sin his death would pay for his own sins, and he'd still be dead.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

How does that fact that he copies from other site signify to you that he doesn't do his own study and learning? One does not negate the other. I think you are just making that assumption.

Much love!

It's possible I am. I have access to 7500 works - would you want me copying and pasting from all of them here? I think some common sense is required.

 

[face2face]

That's why I'm not discussing doctrine with you. Were Jesus a man corrupted by sin his death would pay for his own sins, and he'd still be dead.

Much love!

Marks, you missed the point.

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus (how through?) the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

What was it that God condemned in his son if it wasn't the law of sin and death?

You and I both know Jesus is without question a sinless man; so the question is how was this law in him working and how was it condemned/removed?

You cant say it wasn't there! its as plain as day!

 

[marks]

I'm not going to be discussing doctrine with you.

Much love!

@face2face

 

[face2face]

@face2face

Its confronting... I know Marks.

I get it.

Here it is again in Hebrews 2:14

Now since the children share in blood and flesh, he (Jesus) likewise shared in them, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil (false accuser), 15 and free those who through fear of death had been subject to slavery all their life.

So how was the power of death removed in Jesus if its wasn't there to remove?

Marks you share in blood and flesh
Jesus shared in the same blood and flesh
Marks you are condemned to die (naturally)
Jesus was condemned to die and died

BUT

God broke the power of death in his Son because he was sinless.

F2F

 

[MatthewG]

Make a show of them openly.


Sounds like putting to fighters in cage match.

Beat his head in the crowd screamed.

 

[marks]

Its confronting... I know Marks.

I don't see any fruitfulness in discussing this with you. I've seen how you approach the Bible, and discussion, and I'm simply not interested.

Even here . . . you are putting words into my mouth . . . as if I find this too confrontational.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

Colossians 2:14-15 KJV
14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

I omitted to comment on the title of the OP:

Jesus in obedience to the law (of Moses), he freely offered himself as a sacrifice (openly), and as a result came under its curse, for it is written in the Law: 'Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree' (Gal 3:13). Since the law cursed a righteous man, its abolition in Christ was a justifiable procedure.

Redemption for Christ himself first and us in him, was the work of God in crucifying the flesh that day on Calvery.

We must remember the Law itself was not evil (it was holy and just and good as per Rom 7:12-14). However, the Law brought into focus and highlighted man's sinfulness, in effect making him a "sinner!"

The Law by metonymy (figure of speech) came to stand for sin (putting the cause for the effect as per Colossians 2:14)

By coming under the curse of the Law; while living a perfectly righteous life Christ effectively removed that curse, and made it meaningless.

He did so for those who are "in Christ".

On every level Christ took part in his own redemption and made a show of that which was contrary to us and against us...the Law of Sin and Death.

F2F

 

[Nancy]

No, I don't have another explanation, that's why I've asked the question. I'm reading everyone's input, and considering the passage.

I'm still feeling uncertain, "having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly", when/what was this open display of principalities and powers?

Your thought here is that this was open to God, but then aren't the principalities and powers alway open before God?

I haven't read Behold's thread yet, I'm looking forward to his thoughts also.

I wonder whether this had to do with the rulers of the people, maybe the spiritual darkness they were in, when He rose from the dead?

In my usual way, I'm looking at the plain saying of the passage, for something in harmony with the whole saying.

Much love!

Hello Marks,
Maybe the "spoiling" means to make of no effect? As we now have the Holy Spirit to rebuke in Christs name?
Making a show of them "openly" ? Not so sure unless speaking of the angels still in heaven with The Father? Conundrum