How can any of you stand it

[Stumpmaster]

You proved my point.
I never said that. What I observed about those who suffer CDS, CALVINISM Derangement Syndrome, you just demonstrated.

Thank you.

These four dimensions are NOT mutually exclusive but attend each other in the same way that SPACE, TIME, LOCATION, & VELOCITY do:
1. DIVINE FOREKNOWLEDGE
2. DIVINE DETERMINATION
3. VOLITIONAL ABILITY
4. DIVINE INTERVENTION

 

[Aunty Jane]

Except that, when left to their own devices, Adam and Eve never ate from the tree. So it's a clear case of entrapment.

Satan thought he could deceive them into his clutches by appealing to self-interest....that is what set him off on his course of rebellion...and it worked with Eve, which in turn triggered self-interest in Adam, who did not want to lose his wife. It was "entrapment"....but who set the trap? Not God.

The humans knew the rules and what the penalty was.....by disarming the penalty, what the devil offered was self-determination without the 'hindrance' of a God telling them what to do. It sounded good to her in theory, but in practice it was disastrous, not only for them, but also for their children. Once the 'genie was out of the bottle' there was no going back....the humans couldn't then "unknow" the evil that immediately came into their thoughts. God had tried to prevent them from accessing that knowledge with a penalty so severe that only a fool would transgress his command.....but a deluded woman triggered the choice of Adam...the one though whom sin and death, entered into the world. It was his action that condemned his children. (Rom 5:12) If the humans had simply obeyed their God, we would never have known what an evil thing was. They had no excuse for abusing their free will like that.

And besides why should billions of us have to go through this reality and the fear based idea that we deserve death because of one fallen angel.

If God had simply let it all go without addressing all the issues that this raised about his Sovereignty as the Supreme Creator, then what was to stop another 'satan' from bringing it up again and again? God allowed them to see where self-determination would lead....and here we are. Humans under the devil's influence have brought humanity to the brink of extinction. When the Bible was written, humans did not have the power or the ability to obliterate themselves and turn this earth into a charred wreckage of its former self.

At the end of this lesson, in which the abuse of free will has caused this much damage.....who would ever want to go here again?
The value of the lesson will remain forever.

Let us out already instead of keeping us here cowering in fear of doing anything that could be considered "sin"

The "end" is now very close, but in human terms it seems like a long and painful experience, but we have to recognize that the Creator does not exist in earth time, he exists in universal time, where "a thousand years is as one day".....the first rebel was not human so this exercise is carried out in their time.....so in their counting of time, he basically gave the devil a "week".

Shaking our fist at God will get us nowhere...he has his agenda and we must fall in line with it, if we want what he is offering us.....everlasting life in paradise free from illness (mental and physical) and without aging or death. No wickedness will be permitted if because of free will some may choose to rebel again, there are precedents set that will not allow those ones to continue living. The "lake of fire" remains as a receptacle for any future rebel who thinks they know better than our Creator. Nothing will spoil God's future plans which are as infinite as time itself. Have you never wondered what he might do with the rest of his vast Universe...?

Its all there in the scriptures, but again the devil has hijacked everything in this world to make it all appear to be God's fault.....a true narcissist.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Satan thought he could deceive them into his clutches by appealing to self-interest....that is what set him off on his course of rebellion...and it worked with Eve, which in turn triggered self-interest in Adam, who did not want to lose his wife. It was "entrapment"....but who set the trap? Not God.

The humans knew the rules and what the penalty was.....by disarming the penalty, what the devil offered was self-determination without the 'hindrance' of a God telling them what to do. It sounded good to her in theory, but in practice it was disastrous, not only for them, but also for their children. Once the 'genie was out of the bottle' there was no going back....the humans couldn't then "unknow" the evil that immediately came into their thoughts. God had tried to prevent them from accessing that knowledge with a penalty so severe that only a fool would transgress his command.....but a deluded woman triggered the choice of Adam...the one though whom sin and death, entered into the world. It was his action that condemned his children. (Rom 5:12) If the humans had simply obeyed their God, we would never have known what an evil thing was. They had no excuse for abusing their free will like that.

If God had simply let it all go without addressing all the issues that this raised about his Sovereignty as the Supreme Creator, then what was to stop another 'satan' from bringing it up again and again? God allowed them to see where self-determination would lead....and here we are. Humans under the devil's influence have brought humanity to the brink of extinction. When the Bible was written, humans did not have the power or the ability to obliterate themselves and turn this earth into a charred wreckage of its former self.

At the end of this lesson, in which the abuse of free will has caused this much damage.....who would ever want to go here again?
The value of the lesson will remain forever.

The "end" is now very close, but in human terms it seems like a long and painful experience, but we have to recognize that the Creator does not exist in earth time, he exists in universal time, where "a thousand years is as one day".....the first rebel was not human so this exercise is carried out in their time.....so in their counting of time, he basically gave the devil a "week".

Shaking our fist at God will get us nowhere...he has his agenda and we must fall in line with it, if we want what he is offering us.....everlasting life in paradise free from illness (mental and physical) and without aging or death. No wickedness will be permitted if because of free will some may choose to rebel again, there are precedents set that will not allow those ones to continue living. The "lake of fire" remains as a receptacle for any future rebel who thinks they know better than our Creator. Nothing will spoil God's future plans which are as infinite as time itself. Have you never wondered what he might do with the rest of his vast Universe...?

Its all there in the scriptures, but again the devil has hijacked everything in this world to make it all appear to be God's fault.....a true narcissist.

Satan didn't plant the forbidden tree in Eden. But he did know the ultimatum God gave Adam about eating of it.
Why plant a tree that's off limits? And then look at all that was created and judge it good?
And then tell a man who did not possess knowledge of good and evil what was expected of him as good behavior, obedience to the command not to eat of it, or the alternative, evil, disobedience , which would result in death.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Satan didn't plant the forbidden tree in Eden. But he did know the ultimatum God gave Adam about eating of it.

Exactly....free will meant that the choice to access the TKGE was there, but out of all the trees in the garden, this one did not belong to the humans....God claimed that one tree as his own property. To steal that fruit was to steal from their Sovereign, which incurred the death penalty. To steal from the Creator was an act of gross disrespect and he had every right to demand their death....but because sin had entered into the pair before they had their children....it was passed on as an awful inheritance....like a terminal, genetically transmitted disease. (Rom 5:12)

Why plant a tree that's off limits? And then look at all that was created and judge it good?

Because all that stood in the way of an everlasting idyllic existence in paradise, was their respect and obedience towards their Creator.
No one forced them to eat.....but self-interest got in the way...and the rest as they say...is history. The woman ate because she was deceived, but Adam wasn't.....he knew that joining his wife in disobedience meant death. We know that satan's favorite tactic is 'divide and conquer'....he did both in Eden, and left God to rescue their children, born in sin through no fault on their part....which is why Jesus came to die for us.

If they had just obeyed the command, we would never have known what an evil thing was and the devil would have been dealt with accordingly behind the scenes.

And then tell a man who did not possess knowledge of good and evil what was expected of him as good behavior, obedience to the command not to eat of it, or the alternative, evil, disobedience , which would result in death.

If you know the penalty for the action before you commit the crime.....you have no excuse to whine about it being enacted.

 

[Apache1]

Nah you're getting it badly wrong

It was not a case of "stealing from the creator"

God was the concerned parent warning his children against eating poisoned candy from a stranger

 

[Stumpmaster]

Nah you're getting it badly wrong

It was not a case of "stealing from the creator"

God was the concerned parent warning his children against eating poisoned candy from a stranger

The TOTKOGAE was a quality control standard, a perfect way to monitor mankind's perfect obedience to their Perfect Creator in His Perfect Creation.

 

[Apache1]

Except the Bible does not have the serpent saying something like "God created this tree to see if you would be mindless slaves or not. What sort of tyrant does such a thing. Do not eat from it and join me"

 

[Apache1]

In any case I want out. I took care of a dog for 10 years and got all sorts of death threats for it. What sort of justice is that. Better to just remove me from this world than leaving me with this anxiety

 

[Stumpmaster]

Except the Bible does not have the serpent saying something like "God created this tree to see if you would be mindless slaves or not. What sort of tyrant does such a thing. Do not eat from it and join me"

Love cannot be coerced but it can be conserved. The Ten Commandments are about the conservation of our relationship with God and with our fellowman. Likewise the prohibition on accepting the Mark of the Beast is about conserving the worship of God and acknowledging His Sovereignty rather than submitting to the world, the flesh, and the devil.

 

[Apache1]

Again, why should billions of us have to go through this because of one whiny fallen angel. If you want billions to love you, you don't put them in sick bodies and a limited circle of life to suffer and die with the threat of a second death or hell hanging over their heads

 

[Naomanos]

He needs someone to talk to about this, perhaps a Christian counselor. He doesn't need to be foo foo'd.
Apache, I found a free 24 hour chat where you could go and perhaps get some understanding.

Sometimes the hearing of voices can be arrested by medication. It is a symptom of a medical condition. God gave us doctors. It is OK to visit one.

Online Christian Counseling - Online Therapy

The above quotes are good advice and need to be repeated along with the link to speak with someone.

 

[Taken]

Again, why should billions of us have to go through this because of one whiny fallen angel. If you want billions to love you, you don't put them in sick bodies and a limited circle of life to suffer and die with the threat of a second death or hell hanging over their heads

Everything….wondering why this, why that…
Hangs on three things:
Freewill
Knowledge
Understanding

Freewill applies to:
Every created spiritual being, (aka Angels) Every created natural being, (aka manKind)
Every created natural being, (aka animals)

Regarding Angels…they never DIE.
Regarding ManKind…they were not created to DIE.
Regarding Animals…irrelevant for this discussion.

* Regarding KNOWLEDGE…God established an Order and Way, for the Unseen, Creator (God) and Maker (Lord), to communicate His KNOWLEDGE to ManKind…(since the beginning of ManKind.)
* Through the centuries, ONE Highlight regarding Gods KNOWLEDGE, (according to Gods Order and Way), has been Spoken, Written, Published, Distributed through-out the whole world.

* Regarding FREEWILL…Every individual has Ways, Means, Options, to Hear Gods Knowledge, to Wonder, to Doubt, to Vacillate, to Agree, to Disagree, to Thirst for more, to Reject.

* Regarding UNDERSTANDING of Gods KNOWLEDGE….<—-THE BIGGEST FALLACY perpetuated by MEN IS MEN (philosophers, preachers, teachers, private interpreters are the givers of Gods UNDERSTANDING of Gods KNOWLEDGE).
* AND MEN endlessly asking, demanding, MEN TO: give them Understanding of Gods Knowledge.

* AND?
Intentions, Consequences and Results?
* Men speaking, writing, publishing, distributing, Gods Knowledge…
Is Definitely Gods Order and Way.

* Men CHANGING Gods Knowledge…
For ease to “modern” wording…
For intent to “project” their “own” understanding…(omitting, rewording).
* ^^ That is a crossroads of confusion we currently have, well realized by the UMPTEEN publications of writings, all claiming to be under the Umbrella of the Holy Scriptures. (Aka. The Holy Knowledge of God). And well realized by individual established Churches, that promote particular PUBLISHED versions of (reworded, controversial and confusing meanings and omissions) of Gods Knowledge.

* FREEWILL for every individual to hear, learn, read, decide and choose.

* WHO shall you TRUST to receive Gods KNOWLEDGE?
God…?
Men that God Trusted to distribute His Knowledge…?

* WHO shall you TRUST to receive Gods UNDERSTANDING of His KNOWLEDGE?
God…?
Men that God Trusted to give His Understanding of His Knowledge?
Men that Give you THEIR Understanding of THEIR Knowledge…?

Bottom line…
Exercise your OWN Freewill to decide what you hear, read, IS validated to BE Gods KNOWLEDGE.

Exercise your OWN Freewill to BELIEVE it, or NOT.

Exercise your OWN Freewill to ASK the Advocate God Provided….called the Lord Jesus.

Exercise your OWN Freewill to LISTEN for His Direction.

Exercise your OWN Freewill to Consider, Act on His Direction. (Called Following Him.)

Exercise your OWN Freewill to LEARN, ONLY the Lord God Himself gives a man the Understanding of HIS Knowledge.

If you are WITH the Lord, the Lord is WITH you.

If you are WITHIN Christ the Lord Jesus, Christ (the Power of God) and Jesus (the True Word of God) is WITHIN you and shall NEVER Leave you.

So while MEN of this World can by ALL means Confuse, Trick, Lie, Cheat, Steal, Oppress, Threaten… Comfort is by, through and of Christ the Lord Jesus…. And Surety is:
Your body, Your soul, Your spirit…. Has an Everlasting Peace by, through, of Christ the Lord Jesus.

No doubt, everyone has crummy days, and pleasant days. It vacillates. No one, is immune. The healthy, the wealthy, the power sitters, the sick, the poor, the unknown all vacillate.
Gods Offering is beyond this Natural Life for an ETERNAL, EVERLASTING, days of PEACE and JOY.
Gods Order and Way must First come to Pass…Natural Life First…Spiritual Life Forever.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Again, why should billions of us have to go through this because of one whiny fallen angel. If you want billions to love you, you don't put them in sick bodies and a limited circle of life to suffer and die with the threat of a second death or hell hanging over their heads

It is not BECAUSE of Satan….It IS BECAUSE of individual’s FREEWILL choosing to turn their attention to him, to listen to him, to consider his word, to act on his word.

 

[Apache1]

I should think that by now no one would want to come to this planet.

It's like listening to a con artist. The first few might fall for it but after a while people would smarten up and ignore him

 

[Apache1]

Online Christian Counseling - Online Therapy

The above quotes are good advice and need to be repeated along with the link to speak with someone.

What I really need is to leave this planet. Since, you know, I can't go back to before the disgusting unacceptable supernatural death threats for the heinous sin of taking care of a dog for 10 years and dealing with his non stop barking

And these accelerated days make it hard to do anything properly

 

[Apache1]

Am I being unreasonable in saying that if God allows someone to be put hrough supernatural death threats, being told they are going to hell, being accused of blaspheming the Holy Spirit etc he should either take that persons soul or heal them completely and take away any memory they have of such things

 

[Naomanos]

What I really need is to leave this planet. Since, you know, I can't go back to before the disgusting unacceptable supernatural death threats for the heinous sin of taking care of a dog for 10 years and dealing with his non stop barking

And these accelerated days make it hard to do anything properly

This is why talking with a counselor would help. They can assess whether or not medication is needed. Maybe just talking with a trained counselor would be enough.

 

[Apache1]

How would medication help

It can't take away the memories or any possibility of God/whoever doing that again

 

[Naomanos]

How would medication help

It can't take away the memories or any possibility of God/whoever doing that again

It would help with the voices for one. Counseling will help you with coping strategies for the rest.

 

[Apache1]

I think I would much rather leave this planet. Dear God, if you're going to allow someones spirit to be crushed through supernatural death threats then please follow through. Because really I am sick and tired of being here in middle of nowhere ville with no jobs and nothing to do