Our hands have handle

[Jim B]

John 3:17: “Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world but in order that the world might be saved through him."

"amigo": "He who believes not that JESUS IS THE CHRIST , He is anti christ [sic]" .

Whom should be believed, John or "amigo"?

 

[face2face]

1 John 2:22,"Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son." It does not say doesn't believe, it says denies. That is an important difference!

This is the same teaching as Christ on blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - its denying the Power of Father and His Work in reconciling us back to Him.

 

[Johann]

Sure thing, and when we get to that chapter...happy for your input!
We all can boast in many things 1st - I think Paul's example is best "May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
If your walk is in this type of boast and you fully understand the significance of that cross, then count yourself most blessed. For now, what you have shown has a ? mark over it.
But time will tell.
F2F

Glad to witness here is someone who can say-"I don't know it all" and enjoy your enthusiasm and pathos for Christ Jesus and the Scriptures.
Johann.

 

[Johann]

I am really curious if anyone out there can see how incredible this first verse of 1 John 1 is? Why is John leading us to this word handle?

Incredible indeed!

"from the beginning" This is an obvious allusion to Genesis 1 and John 1, but here it refers to the beginning of Jesus' public ministry The incarnation and substitutionary death of Jesus was not "Plan B." The gospel was always God's plan of redemption (cf. Gen. 3:15; Eph. 2:11-3:13; Acts 2:23; 3:18; 4:28; 13:29; This phrase in this context refers to the beginning of the twelve Apostles' personal encounter with Jesus.

John uses the concept of "beginning" (archē) often. Most of the occurrences divide into basically two categories.

from creation
John 1:1,2 (Jesus in the beginning)
John 8:44; 1 Kgs. 3:8 (Satan murderer and liar from the beginning)
Rev. 3:14; 21:6,12 (Jesus the beginning and the end)
from the time of Jesus' incarnation and ministry
John 8:25; 1 John 2:7 [twice]; 3:11; 2 John 5,6 (Jesus' teachings)
John 15:27; 16:4 (with Jesus)
1 John 1:1 (from the beginning of Jesus' public ministry)
1 John 2:13,24 [twice] (from their trust in Jesus)
John 6:64 (from their rejection of Jesus)
context favors #2
JOHN 1 COMPARED TO 1 JOHN 1

"we" This implies the collective yet personal witness of the Apostles (i.e., NT writers). This collective testimony is a characteristic of 1 John. It is used over 50 times.

Some scholars see this collective PRONOUN as referring to those of "John's tradition." This would imply guardians or teachers of John's unique theological perspective.

"have heard. . .have seen" These are both PERFECT ACTIVE INDICATIVES which emphasize abiding results. John was asserting Jesus' humanity by his recurrent use of words related to the five senses in 1 John 1:1,3. He thereby claims to be an eyewitness to the life and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth.

"have looked . . . and touched" These are both AORIST INDICATIVES which emphasize specific events. "Looked" means "closely observed" (cf. John 1:14), "touched" means "closely examined by feel" (cf. John 20:20,27; Luke 24:39).

The Greek term for "touched" or "handled" (psēlaphaō) is found in only two verses in the NT: here and Luke 24:39. In Luke it is used of a post-resurrection encounter with Jesus. 1 John uses it in the same sense.

"Word of Life" The use of the term logos served to catch the attention of the Greek false teachers, as in the Prologue to John's Gospel (cf. John 1:1). This word was widely used in Greek philosophy. It also had a specific background in Hebrew life . This phrase here refers to both the content of the gospel and the person of the gospel.



1:2 This verse is a parenthesis defining "life."

"life" "Zōē" (1 John 1:2 twice) is used consistently in John's writings for spiritual life, resurrection life, new age life, or God's life (cf. John 1:4; 3:15,36 [twice]; 4:14,36; 5:24 [twice],26 [twice], 29,39,40; 6:27,33,35,40,47,48,51,53,54,63,68; 8:12; 10:10,28; 11:25; 12:25,50; 14:6; 17:2,3; 20:31; 1 John 1:1,2; 2:25; 3:14-15; 5:11,12,13,16,20). Jesus called Himself "the life" (cf. John 14:6).

"manifested" This VERB is used twice in this verse and both are AORIST PASSIVE INDICATIVES.

The AORIST TENSE emphasizes the incarnation (cf. John 1:14), which the false teachers denied.

The PASSIVE VOICE is often used to assert the agency of God the Father or the Spirit.

This term (phaneroō) implies "to bring to light that which was already present." This was a favorite term with John (cf. John 1:31; 3:21; 9:3; 17:6; 1 John 1:2 [twice]; 2:19; 3:5,8,10; 4:9).

"testify" This refers to John's sharing his personal experience (i.e., PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE). This term was often used of testimony in a court case.



"proclaim" This refers to John's authoritative testimony (i.e., PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE) revealed and recorded in his preaching and writing (2 PARTICIIPLES).

"was with the Father" Like 1 John 1:12, this is an assertion of Jesus' pre-existence. The phrasing is like John 1:1. Deity has been incarnated as a human (cf. John 1:14). To know Jesus is to know God (cf. John 14:8-11). This is an example of John's vertical dualism.



1:3 "what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also" This is the fifth RELATIVE CLAUSE, which resumes the thought of 1 John 1:1 after the parenthesis of 1 John 1:2. It repeats the VERBS of perception found in 1 John 1:1.



"we proclaim to you also" This is the main VERB of 1 John 1:1-3. It is a PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE. Knowing God demands a fellowship with His children! Christianity is corporate; it is a family. This is the main VERB.

"so that you too may have fellowship with us" This is a PURPOSE CLAUSE (hina) with a PRESENT ACTIVE SUBJUNCTIVE. The stated purpose of the Gospel was that those who never heard or saw Jesus might be saved by the Apostolic witness (cf. John 17:20; 20:29-31). It is this fellowship in revelatory grace that brings "joy," "peace," and "assurance"! The church is a community of believers, a body of believers! The gospel is for the whole world (i.e., John 1:12; 3:16-17; 1 Tim. 2:4; 4:10; Titus 2:11; 2 Pet. 3:9; 1 John 2:1; 4:10).

Hallelujah!-you may proceed brother
Johann

 

[Johann]

Just free will. In fact, because He was conceived with the Seed of the Father,

 

[Behold]

Correct he had your nature and for good reason - thats the Gospel Paul & John taught...if you hang around you will see.

All humans have a earthly father who is connected spiritually to Adam who was a sinner.

Jesus's Father is not a sinner, He is God, and so, Jesus has His Nature, and was born free from sin.

When you accuse Jesus of being a sinner you are blaspheming the Holy Spirt.

Not a good idea.

 

[Behold]

(Yes @Behold we are getting closer to that Cross you so wanted to discuss)

The Cross of Christ is the Gospel of our Salvation.

 

[Jim B]

1 John 2:22,"Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son." It does not say doesn't believe, it says denies. That is an important difference!

This is the same teaching as Christ on blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - its denying the Power of Father and His Work in reconciling us back to Him.

I agree. That is why people who equate those who don't believe that Jesus is the Christ with those who deny Him are totally wrong.

 

[Jim B]

Same man who had the gospel of john penned , had that to say as well .
He who believes not that JESUS IS THE CHRIST , He is anti christ .
take note john did say , WELL ITS OKAY , if they just hug and have love they are fine too .
JOHN SAID HE IS ANTI CHRIST . ANTI CHRIST . let us read first john chapter two verse twenty and two .
MEMORIZE IT , cause this all inclusive lovey do generation is LYING to the masses .

Romans 10:15, "And how are they to proclaim him unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

@amigo, your chronic judgement and hatred are in direct contrast to the true essence of God's message.

 

[face2face]

All humans have a earthly father who is connected spiritually to Adam who was a sinner.

Jesus's Father is not a sinner, He is God, and so, Jesus has His Nature, and was born free from sin.

When you accuse Jesus of being a sinner you are blaspheming the Holy Spirt.

Not a good idea.

Revelation 22:16 (last words!)

 

[face2face]

Incredible indeed!

"from the beginning" This is an obvious allusion to Genesis 1 and John 1, but here it refers to the beginning of Jesus' public ministry

Yes, the physical and spiritual creation!

The incarnation and substitutionary death of Jesus was not "Plan B."

Representative death! Gal 5:24

The gospel was always God's plan of redemption (cf. Gen. 3:15; Eph. 2:11-3:13; Acts 2:23; 3:18; 4:28; 13:29;

True

This phrase in this context refers to the beginning of the twelve Apostles' personal encounter with Jesus.

John uses the concept of "beginning" (archē) often. Most of the occurrences divide into basically two categories.

Yes, Yahweh is the One who gives all things a beginning and and end! Jesus Christ was alive....dead....and now lives for evermore!

from creation
John 1:1,2 (Jesus in the beginning)
John 8:44; 1 Kgs. 3:8 (Satan murderer and liar from the beginning)
Rev. 3:14; 21:6,12 (Jesus the beginning and the end)
from the time of Jesus' incarnation and ministry
John 8:25; 1 John 2:7 [twice]; 3:11; 2 John 5,6 (Jesus' teachings)
John 15:27; 16:4 (with Jesus)
1 John 1:1 (from the beginning of Jesus' public ministry)
1 John 2:13,24 [twice] (from their trust in Jesus)
John 6:64 (from their rejection of Jesus)
context favors #2
JOHN 1 COMPARED TO 1 JOHN 1

Yahweh is outside of all beginnings - He has no beginning.

"we" This implies the collective yet personal witness of the Apostles (i.e., NT writers). This collective testimony is a characteristic of 1 John. It is used over 50 times.

Some scholars see this collective PRONOUN as referring to those of "John's tradition." This would imply guardians or teachers of John's unique theological perspective.

We includes John as he is writing as a representative of the Apostles who all handled the Lord.

"have heard. . .have seen" These are both PERFECT ACTIVE INDICATIVES which emphasize abiding results. John was asserting Jesus' humanity by his recurrent use of words related to the five senses in 1 John 1:1,3. He thereby claims to be an eyewitness to the life and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth.

"have looked . . . and touched" These are both AORIST INDICATIVES which emphasize specific events. "Looked" means "closely observed" (cf. John 1:14), "touched" means "closely examined by feel" (cf. John 20:20,27; Luke 24:39).

The Greek term for "touched" or "handled" (psēlaphaō) is found in only two verses in the NT: here and Luke 24:39. In Luke it is used of a post-resurrection encounter with Jesus. 1 John uses it in the same sense.

"Word of Life" The use of the term logos served to catch the attention of the Greek false teachers, as in the Prologue to John's Gospel (cf. John 1:1). This word was widely used in Greek philosophy. It also had a specific background in Hebrew life . This phrase here refers to both the content of the gospel and the person of the gospel.



1:2 This verse is a parenthesis defining "life."

"life" "Zōē" (1 John 1:2 twice) is used consistently in John's writings for spiritual life, resurrection life, new age life, or God's life (cf. John 1:4; 3:15,36 [twice]; 4:14,36; 5:24 [twice],26 [twice], 29,39,40; 6:27,33,35,40,47,48,51,53,54,63,68; 8:12; 10:10,28; 11:25; 12:25,50; 14:6; 17:2,3; 20:31; 1 John 1:1,2; 2:25; 3:14-15; 5:11,12,13,16,20). Jesus called Himself "the life" (cf. John 14:6).

Yes, the Life which is being sought, not yet obtain though some think they have immortality already.

"manifested" This VERB is used twice in this verse and both are AORIST PASSIVE INDICATIVES.

Manifestation is the key theme of the Bible - hence why Christ died to manifest / declare the righteousness of God and all overs are to follow his example.

The AORIST TENSE emphasizes the incarnation (cf. John 1:14), which the false teachers denied.

The PASSIVE VOICE is often used to assert the agency of God the Father or the Spirit.

This term (phaneroō) implies "to bring to light that which was already present." This was a favorite term with John (cf. John 1:31; 3:21; 9:3; 17:6; 1 John 1:2 [twice]; 2:19; 3:5,8,10; 4:9).

"testify" This refers to John's sharing his personal experience (i.e., PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE). This term was often used of testimony in a court case.



"proclaim" This refers to John's authoritative testimony (i.e., PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE) revealed and recorded in his preaching and writing (2 PARTICIIPLES).

"was with the Father" Like 1 John 1:12, this is an assertion of Jesus' pre-existence. The phrasing is like John 1:1. Deity has been incarnated as a human (cf. John 1:14). To know Jesus is to know God (cf. John 14:8-11). This is an example of John's vertical dualism.



1:3 "what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also" This is the fifth RELATIVE CLAUSE, which resumes the thought of 1 John 1:1 after the parenthesis of 1 John 1:2. It repeats the VERBS of perception found in 1 John 1:1.



"we proclaim to you also" This is the main VERB of 1 John 1:1-3. It is a PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE. Knowing God demands a fellowship with His children! Christianity is corporate; it is a family. This is the main VERB.

"so that you too may have fellowship with us" This is a PURPOSE CLAUSE (hina) with a PRESENT ACTIVE SUBJUNCTIVE. The stated purpose of the Gospel was that those who never heard or saw Jesus might be saved by the Apostolic witness (cf. John 17:20; 20:29-31). It is this fellowship in revelatory grace that brings "joy," "peace," and "assurance"! The church is a community of believers, a body of believers! The gospel is for the whole world (i.e., John 1:12; 3:16-17; 1 Tim. 2:4; 4:10; Titus 2:11; 2 Pet. 3:9; 1 John 2:1; 4:10).

Hallelujah!-you may proceed brother
Johann

Thank you.

 

[Behold]

Revelation 22:16 (last words!)

Jesus is the Seed of the Holy Spirit.

"Holy Spirit".

We are not, face2face.

We came from our father's who are not the Holy Spirit.

 

[face2face]

Jesus is the Seed of the Holy Spirt.

"Holy Spirit".

We are not, face2face.

We came for our father's who are not the Holy Spirit.

You couldn't speak to that verse could you behold?
I know why!
Revelation 22:16 for you again.

 

[face2face]

Notice how there is a change in verse 6?

6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

This is the first of seven tests to know whether we are true disciples, or not. John establishes the principle that genuine fellowship is conditional upon whether we walking in light; and declares that if we claim fellowship, but walk in the darkness, we are not being honest with our brothers and sisters.

Of course, it has an eroding affect on fellowship and others faith if we live this lie. As we shall see "fellowship with God" is our objective in all that we say and do, and if we are found to be in darkness how devastating would the revelation of that be? As we shall see there are certain activities we need to be doing to remain in that fellowship.

John is the old mature Apostle who speaks to us as his little Children.

F2F

 

[Behold]

You couldn't speak to that verse could you behold?
I know why!
Revelation 22:16 for you again.

A descendent of the House of David, and that might include Mary also, does not establish Jesus as being "Adamic".

See, Jesus is the 2nd Adam.

God created the first out of Dirt.

God created the 2nd Adam by the Holy Spirit, inside the womb of a Virgin.

So, the SEED is the recognized Father.

Adam is the seed regarding Humans., which is why our fallen nature is "Adamic"

Jesus's seed is from His Father, who is God.

Jesus is the 2nd Adam, and like the first was created SINLESS, by God.

We, are created by mother and father., who are from 1st Adam.

Jesus was created not by sperm but by the Holy Spirit.

Notice that when Jesus was on the Cross, He didn't call Mary His mother.
He called her "woman".

Jesus said "i and my Father are ONE".... and that is not referring to a Human, as Jesus was from God, the Holy Spirit.

 

[amigo de christo]

Romans 10:15, "And how are they to proclaim him unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

@amigo, your chronic judgement and hatred are in direct contrast to the true essence of God's message.

WE must preach the gospel . Not the social false gospel , but the true one .
As far as my chronic judgment , Me thinks you mean the apostel johns chronic judgment . Who do you think
i quoated . So i say again as john was did .
He who believes not that JESUS is the Christ , THE CHRIST , He is anti christ .
that aint chronic jugment jim . ITS TRUTH . And its time we preach the TRUE gospel and stop
giving folks false hope under the social all inclusive one .

 

[face2face]

A descendent of the House of David, and that might include Mary also, does not establish Jesus as being "Adamic".

See, Jesus is the 2nd Adam.

God created the first out of Dirt.

God created the 2nd Adam by the Holy Spirit, inside the womb of a Virgin.

So, the SEED is the recognized Father.

Adam is the seed regarding Humans., which is why our fallen nature is "Adamic"

Jesus's seed is from His Father, who is God.

Jesus is the 2nd Adam, and like the first was created SINLESS, by God.

We, are created by mother and father., who are from 1st Adam.

Jesus was created not by sperm but by the Holy Spirit.

Notice that when Jesus was on the Cross, He didn't call Mary His mother.
He called her "woman".

Jesus said "i and my Father are ONE".... and that is not referring to a Human, as Jesus was from God, the Holy Spirit.

Yes, born of a woman for good reason!

I'll highlight for you the essential parts for meaning.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same;

But why?

that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil (sin personified) ;

Right...so God did something through the death of His Son!

And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels;

Ah...so you say Paul! He didn't have divine nature (wow very emphatic of you to say this Paul, as though you know why he had to have sins flesh!)

but he took on him the seed of Abraham (and David etc). Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Behold, dont post any more reply's please unless you are willing to study the above section and show a right understanding

F2F

 

[Behold]

Yes, born of a woman for good reason!

Born of a Virgin, and still a Virgin after The SON OF GOD, was born.

She was still a virgin, after Jesus, the Son of God, was born of a Virgin.

Understand?

"virgin born" = no MAN created Jesus.

No "earthly father".

No "nature of Man", = "No earthly father".

Jesus came down from HEAVEN.. He told you.
He was not created by a man who was human.

 

[amigo de christo]

Born of a Virgin, and still a Virgin after The SON OF GOD, was born.

She was still a virgin, after Jesus, the Son of God, was born of a Virgin.

Understand?

"virgin born" = no MAN created Jesus.

No "earthly father".

No "nature of Man", = "No earthly father".

Jesus came down from HEAVEN.. He told you.
He was not created by a man who was human.

It explains it very clearly in the first chapter of luke . JESUS had no earthly padre . THE HOLY SPIRIT
overshadowed her , thus that which grew in her womb was called the SON of GOD .
Exactly . Joseph had no part in the pro creation of Christ . GOD DID THIS . The WORD simple became flesh .
Now let all that draws breath both praise and thank , then thank and praise the glorious Lord .
I will leave us with the words of thomas , WHOM JESUS DID NOT CORRECT when HE had this to say .
MY LORD and MY GOD . Ps , thomas said that to JESUS CHRIST . And JESUS didnt correct thomas
and say HEY THOMAS get up , i am but a man such as yourself . Paul and barnabas
and peter and john stopped men from worshipping them . BUT ISNT it something that JESUS didnt rebuke
thomas for kneeling before HIM and saying THOSE very words . Exactly .
Now let all that has breath praise the glorious LORD .

 

[Johann]

It explains it very clearly in the first chapter of luke . JESUS had no earthly padre . THE HOLY SPIRIT
overshadowed her , thus that which grew in her womb was called the SON of GOD .
Exactly . Joseph had no part in the pro creation of Christ . GOD DID THIS . The WORD simple became flesh .
Now let all that draws breath both praise and thank , then thank and praise the glorious Lord .
I will leave us with the words of thomas , WHOM JESUS DID NOT CORRECT when HE had this to say .
MY LORD and MY GOD . Ps , thomas said that to JESUS CHRIST . And JESUS didnt correct thomas
and say HEY THOMAS get up , i am but a man such as yourself . Paul and barnabas
and peter and john stopped men from worshipping them . BUT ISNT it something that JESUS didnt rebuke
thomas for kneeling before HIM and saying THOSE very words . Exactly .
Now let all that has breath praise the glorious LORD .