BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a zero-sum equation. Is there an agape go/no-go gage in the Bible I can use to measure myself? That would be great!
Unity of the faith - at what cost?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Ronald David Bruno said:
Since faith is a gift and comes in different levels, it also comes with the fundamental truth about Jesus.
How does faith come in different levels?
And "fundamental truth about Jesus."?
Not sure what this means. ???
Since faith is a gift and comes in different levels, it also comes with the fundamental truth about Jesus.
I agree, what is this about?
How does faith come in different levels?
And "fundamental truth about Jesus."?
Not sure what this means. ???
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
What if I was living in the French Alps in 1211AD and the only thing I had was a few pages of 1st John that the Vaudois had sewn into their garments and smuggled in for me? I wonder how Jesus managed to make the Emmaus road travelers' hearts burn within them without the book of Romans. Not that I'm selling TULIPs, mind you. Just a thought. Sorry.
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Selling TULIPS, lol.What if I was living in the French Alps in 1211AD and the only thing I had was a few pages of 1st John that the Vaudois had sewn into their garments and smuggled in for me? I wonder how Jesus managed to make the Emmaus road travelers' hearts burn within them without the book of Romans. Not that I'm selling TULIPs, mind you. Just a thought. Sorry.
Behold
Well-Known Member
What if I was living in the French Alps in 1211AD and the only thing I had was a few pages of 1st John that the Vaudois had sewn into their garments and smuggled in for me? I wonder how Jesus managed to make the Emmaus road travelers' hearts burn within them without the book of Romans. Not that I'm selling TULIPs, mind you. Just a thought. Sorry.
Yes.
I wrote a Thread yesterday that is talking about a Buddhist who is stranded on a Deserted Island, (Plane Crash)
He had same situation you are describing.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Hi BarneyFife, how are ya?
We can be united _ in Christ _ on a basic level. Remember when we were first drawn to God and He lifted the veil of blindness? We heard or read about the gospel and believed. We were young infant Christians and believed in God, the Creator and the Holy Spirit convicted us of our sin. We realized we had broken His laws and could not remove our sins, so turned to Christ to be saved in godly sorrow and to be forgiven. We believed the story: Who Jesus is, His miracles, and that He fulfilled the requirements of the Law with His death and then He rose from the dead on the third day. He promises over and over that if we believe in Him, we will be saved. Eternal life is His promise among may others in this life.
Our faith is a gift and so since we don't earn it, the Holy Spirt grows our faith as we cooperate, obey and follow. But an all encompassing doctrinaire achievement or attitude is not required for unity. Some scholars know 100x more than I do and I may know 100x more than a child who comes to Christ -- but we are all "in Christ", born from above.
As there are billions of cells in an organism, they all function differently but in unity of purpose. They all work symbiotically as a whole body, cells within fibers, organs and systems.
Likewise, we are all individuals and each of us has different levels of faith and knowledge about Christ. The important thing is that we have a relationship with God. That is God's purpose for man, to be reconciled to Him through Jesus.
So let's agree and unite in Christ faithfully without letting at least non-essential doctrines divide us. As far as the essential doctrines, God will sort them out in each individual as He teaches them, as they grow spiritually. His plan fir all is perfect so let's not wrestle with it. We pray for others and must be patient that they will learn. We share the truth ... if they don't listen, we pray for them and move on.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Good to see you again, Ron.
I'm doing fine and I hope and trust you are, too.I like what you say here. I'm just not sure I can trust that God will concur with what I like. There are, after all, deeper realities involved in what you've said, which I'm sure is not news to you.
One problem is that many folks, no matter how long they've been Christians, can't agree and unite in Christ as long as they look around and see that very few can agree on what is essential and non-essential. These two words have actually been used to the point of becoming clichéd for many.
And the idea that God will sort things out individually as folks learn and mature is seen by many as pluralism or "all roads lead..." since folks die every day of old age, agreeing with their brethren on little more than they ever did.
The problem seems to me to be that we just cannot bring ourselves to take the words of Christ seriously enough, in general, but in this particular case, Luke 6:36 comes to mind:
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
This statement is made in the midst of a general appeal so, hopefully, there won't be too many objections made about context.
But just think of what it would be like if everyone on the forum (or in the Christian world, no less¿) just decided to be calm and let people exercise their own God-given right (that's right, folks, it didn't come down from the framers of the U.S. Constitution) to religious liberty (and this is where the "rubber" must "meet the road" for true unity of the faith to be realized, @St. SteVen
).What if we stated our cases only until contention reared its ugly head or, better yet, just short of that point?
I think it's clear that such an exercise can only be performed by one who is controlled by the Spirit of God.
May we all surrender to that Spirit.
(Hopefully, I won't be seen by any as being intentionally divisive for capitalizing the letter "s" in Spirit. :))
Humility and service is the answer, I think.
Maybe we disagree over the rapture, or something else, but do we disagree over how to give a meal to the hungry person? How to give the cold person a blanket?
I think that if we truly have humility, we will serve each other without all the conflict, since we won't be emotionally invested.
We argue and debate over points of theology and all, but when we serve together, we work side by side without disputations.
Much love!
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
I read one post that gave a list of essentials that included the necessity for believing that Jesus is God as a qualification for calling another a "brother in Christ."
This gave me pause for some self-examination because, while I believe that Christ and His Father are One, I know some very fine people who don't believe that with whom I have much more in common than not.
This causes me a dilemma of a logical sort if I think about it for too long.
Terms often get muddy for me—especially the ones that are man-made or are used far more by Christians than they are in the Bible itself.
"Brother in Christ"
What does that mean? How far does it take you? If I know a man my same age and we have practically the same views on faith and morals our whole lives and have always considered ourselves "brothers in Christ" until we turn 90 years old when, suddenly, one of us goes just rogue enough to cause some substantial but not devastating tension:
Are we still "brothers in Christ?" Were we ever? Does it even matter? Hasn't it just become one more unprofitable judgment? Do I really even need to have a "brother in Christ" designation?
Is the way way we're supposed to treat the faithful really that much different than the way we should treat the "heathen?" Would God forgive us if we weren't exactly crystal clear on how to observe the difference? Isn't the Theocracy on hold for now?
This gave me pause for some self-examination because, while I believe that Christ and His Father are One, I know some very fine people who don't believe that with whom I have much more in common than not.
This causes me a dilemma of a logical sort if I think about it for too long.
Terms often get muddy for me—especially the ones that are man-made or are used far more by Christians than they are in the Bible itself.
"Brother in Christ"
What does that mean? How far does it take you? If I know a man my same age and we have practically the same views on faith and morals our whole lives and have always considered ourselves "brothers in Christ" until we turn 90 years old when, suddenly, one of us goes just rogue enough to cause some substantial but not devastating tension:
Are we still "brothers in Christ?" Were we ever? Does it even matter? Hasn't it just become one more unprofitable judgment? Do I really even need to have a "brother in Christ" designation?
Is the way way we're supposed to treat the faithful really that much different than the way we should treat the "heathen?" Would God forgive us if we weren't exactly crystal clear on how to observe the difference? Isn't the Theocracy on hold for now?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Have been studying the NT for 49 years now.
Paul has allowed for many areas of disagrement.
Behold
Well-Known Member
He allows for Zero Disagreement.
He told you that His Doctrine, didn't come from a man, It came from Jesus, Himself.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
I teach them all the time.
You should try. Romans 3:21-28 and get back to me.
We'll wait.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
WE'll wait?? Are you multiple personalities? that would explain alot!
Try Romans 14 and 1 Cor. 10:25
Behold
Well-Known Member
You believe that you have your sin, and that is why you told us you confess it and will again.
That's not real Christianity, that you are practicing or preaching.
That's broken faith.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
He allows for -zero- disagreement.
But he writes things hard to be understood.
I've found that most folks can't seem to acknowledge this paradox to which Peter testifies under inspiration.
:
Behold
Well-Known Member
I've found that most folks can't seem to acknowledge this paradox to which Peter testifies under inspiration.
He makes things impossible for the natural man to understand.
The word of God is "Spiritually Discerned"., and the "natural man" receiveth not the things of God."""
An unbeliever trying to understand the NT is like a Panda Bear tying to fly a Rocket.
And here is the thing...
If a Believer has become carnal minded, which is proven by them believing they can lose their salvation, then that mind they have, when reading the bible or trying to understand Holy Spirit Spirituality....is that Panda trying to fly that rocket..
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
What's the point of Peter singling him out as hard to understand if only "unsaved" or "natural" folks are likely to have trouble? Why didn't he just go with "all the scriptures" instead of Paul, "as with the other?"
I must be merely "natural." (no surprise to some, no doubt)
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
That's really the best answer.
The Bible uses as a literary device to proclaim there is no Jew or Gentile but literally speaking Christ followers come from all walks of life and it is not necessary to suppose we must agree on every little thing - including politics, musical preferences, or even how many children we will or want to have.
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