The Son of Man returns with and for his people

[Timtofly]

Israel has been scattered from AD70

I think you have your history messed up. Israel has been scattered since 721BC.

Who did you think was killed in 70AD? Almost a million Israelites from around the empire and beyond, gathered in Jerusalem for the Passover every year. Did you not read Josephus? Or even Acts 2?

The OT prophets talked about the regathering of all of Israel from around the world. Not just a yearly pilgrimage and then return home.

While the process of regathering has started, it can only be completed by Jesus and the angels after the Second Coming.

And not after Armageddon. Why do people think any one is still alive after Armageddon? From the 1st Seal to the 7th Trumpet it is the removal of people from Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Did you not read the fine print?

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order:"

Those not made alive remain dead, but they are also not left on earth physically either. See what happens to the goats?

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"

Now the church teaches that this is just symbolic of a general judgment. What most fail to see is that these are placed into this everlasting fire prior to experiencing physical death. This is the destruction of both soul and body at the same time. People are not just being removed to life, but also into death. No one is left alive to keep living in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. If you start the process at Armageddon, that is after all have already been placed into life or death. There is no one left to redeem nor destroy after Armageddon.

Revelation is dealing with the systematic removal of all souls out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Remember that the Flood was the end of life on earth for everyone? Only those selected by Jesus will go through into the Millennium.

 

[face2face]

I think you have your history messed up. Israel has been scattered since 721BC.

True! But my focus has been on AD70 as fulfillement of the Olivet Prophecy and the end of the Mosaic age...so your point is rather moot.

Who did you think was killed in 70AD? Almost a million Israelites from around the empire and beyond, gathered in Jerusalem for the Passover every year. Did you not read Josephus? Or even Acts 2?

The OT prophets talked about the regathering of all of Israel from around the world. Not just a yearly pilgrimage and then return home.

While the process of regathering has started, it can only be completed by Jesus and the angels after the Second Coming.

Correct - Israel became a state in 1948 and as you rightly state the full restoration is yet to see many signs and wonders done in the earth at Christs coming!

And not after Armageddon. Why do people think any one is still alive after Armageddon? From the 1st Seal to the 7th Trumpet it is the removal of people from Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Did you not read the fine print?

The full restoration work will not be post until after Armageddon. Christs coronation is post war!

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order:"

Those not made alive remain dead, but they are also not left on earth physically either. See what happens to the goats?

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"

Now the church teaches that this is just symbolic of a general judgment. What most fail to see is that these are placed into this everlasting fire prior to experiencing physical death. This is the destruction of both soul and body at the same time. People are not just being removed to life, but also into death. No one is left alive to keep living in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. If you start the process at Armageddon, that is after all have already been placed into life or death. There is no one left to redeem nor destroy after Armageddon.

Revelation is dealing with the systematic removal of all souls out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Remember that the Flood was the end of life on earth for everyone? Only those selected by Jesus will go through into the Millennium.

You have some wacky things going on here which I'm not interested in unpacking right now to be honest. A tangled web of lies and deceit that only a one on one face to face discussion could unravel.

Soul is just a word for the life (whole of) and not some ethereal wafting essence which you sadly hold onto. It means your interpretation of prophecy is so skewed.

I honestly feel for you, and those like minded - with this knowledge the Bible becomes a choose your own adventure....which always ends badly.

F2F

 

[Keraz]

Interpreting the primary first audience hearing is imperative and not to apply a modernistic view which finds you forcing these prophecies into your own eschatological model.

I disagree.
If what the Bible says applies only to the ancient peoples; where are we?
Prophesies about Gods plans for Judah apply to the Jews today and Prophesies about Israel, - the ten Northern tribes; apply to the Christian peoples today.
Here is my article on the dry bones:

In the 36th chapter of Ezekiel, the prophet tells the story of how all the Lord’s people, Christian Israelites, of Judah, Israel and people grafted in: are gathered, redeemed and settled into all of the holy Land. However, before then, the story unfolds;

Isaiah 41:1 - Keep silent before Me you coasts and islands.... Five steps are mentioned here by the prophet; keep silent – When ancient Israel migrated from their captivity in Assyria, they remained hidden until they regained their strength.
Then, let them come near – awaken to the true gospel, evangelism from John Wycliffe to Billy Graham, etc.
Let them speak – proclaim the good news around the world.

Still to come is ‘Let us meet in the place of judgement’ Isaiah 41:8-9 God will soon call His people back to the Land, where the administration of His commandments and Laws will be restored. Ezekiel 36:27

Jeremiah 3:8 Israel and Judah divorced from God and sent into captivity for their sins.

Then God took Ezekiel in a vision to a valley full of dry bones;
Ezekiel 37:11 These bones are the whole house of Israel [All the 12 tribes] They say: our hope is gone, we are cut off. [from God]

Ezekiel 37:9-10 The Lord God says: let the winds [Gods spirit] come and breath into the slain [dead to the Gospel] that they might live. They came to life and stood up- a mighty company! [of Christians]

Ezekiel 37:12-13 I will bring you up from your graves [our present spiritually lost condition] and restore you to the Land of Israel.

Through Isaiah, God gives a message to the House of Israel, identifying them as a people who have lost the knowledge of their origin and forgotten their ancestors.
Isaiah 51:1-2 Listen to Me, all you who know the Law [the common Judeo-Christian Law of our countries] You who seek the Lord [Christian peoples] consider your origin, where you came from- Abraham and Sarah are your parents. I blessed them and now you are their offspring. Galatians 6:14-16

God is looking forward to the day when the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus is completed. His sacrifice of atonement and salvation is made available to all who accept it and acknowledge their Creator. Everyone who has the faith of Abraham, is deemed to be his offspring. Galatians 3:26-29 One of the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16

The great awakening of all the Israelites is symbolically represented as life from the dead, for through the Resurrection of Jesus, God demonstrates His power and can then do this; Ezekiel 37:14 I shall put My Spirit into you and you will live. [a true Godly life] Thus you will know that I, the Lord has acted and spoken.

After that: Ezekiel 37:26-28 I shall make an everlasting covenant with Israel. My sanctuary will be in their midst, I will be their God and they will be My people.
The Glory of God will be present in the new Temple, as in ancient times. Ezekiel 43:1-4

The Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign comes a few years later.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Now, who is the habitual liar?

It's still you as far as I can tell. What lie did I supposedly tell?

Where was Satan? You claim the angel did not come to earth. Where was Satan when Satan was bound?

I claim that it says the angel came down from heaven as the text indicates. Where does it say the angel came to the earth? The onus is on you to back up your claims.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Can you show me where this says that the angel came to earth?

 

[Timtofly]

It's still you as far as I can tell. What lie did I supposedly tell?


I claim that it says the angel came down from heaven as the text indicates. Where does it say the angel came to the earth? The onus is on you to back up your claims.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Can you show me where this says that the angel came to earth?

There is only the earth and the firmament called heaven. Read Genesis 1.

You say I am a liar saying you take everything symbolically, yet you are the liar saying I take everything literally.

You are the one complaining, not me. Both examples are in your head. You claim I lie about you, then do the same thing you accused me of. This argument about everything being either one way or the other is getting old, you would think.

So is there a third location you make up between heaven and earth, the angel came to?

You are the one preaching not everything has to be mentioned in every chapter. Seems quite reasonable that Satan is loosed back to where he was bound from. If he was loosed onto the earth, then the earth was where he was originally bound from. That would be from your perspective.

Of course from my perspective, Satan was cast out of heaven to the earth, at the 7th Trumpet, and as the 3rd woe, set up his Babylonian Empire on the earth. Then he led the battle against Jesus at Armageddon, and was then bound because he was defeated and his armies destroyed. The other two of his cronies, were cast into the LOF a thousand years before Satan was loosed.

 

[face2face]

I disagree.
If what the Bible says applies only to the ancient peoples; where are we?

We have our own prophecies to contend with!

Prophesies about Gods plans for Judah apply to the Jews today and Prophesies about Israel, - the ten Northern tribes; apply to the Christian peoples today.
Here is my article on the dry bones:

In the 36th chapter of Ezekiel, the prophet tells the story of how all the Lord’s people, Christian Israelites, of Judah, Israel and people grafted in: are gathered, redeemed and settled into all of the holy Land. However, before then, the story unfolds;

Are we reading the same Chapter?

You are not even talking about the context of the chapter - you are waaay off the mark!

Ezekiel 36:1-15 is about the transformed land. God warned (via the Lev covenant in Lev 26) that if the people did not properly observe the Sabbath (true Sabbath rest from works of sin) God would scatter them among the Nations, in order that the "land shall enjoy he sabbaths see verse 34. This took place when Israel was dispersed among the Gentiles. How long had the land lay rested? For centuries! But the time is coming (and has come) when God would stir them up and bring them transformed back into a fertile land to become a regenerated nation.

36:1 “As for you, son of man, prophesy to the mountains of Israel, and say: ‘O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord! 36:2 This is what the sovereign Lord says: The enemy (Gentile) has spoken against you (Israel), saying “Aha!” and, “The ancient heights have become our property!” ’ 36:3 So prophesy and say: ‘This is what the sovereign Lord says: Surely because they (Gentiles) have made you (Israel) desolate and crushed you from all directions, so that you have become the property of the rest of the nations, and have become the subject of gossip and slander among the people, 36:4 therefore, O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the sovereign Lord: This is what the sovereign Lord says to the mountains and hills, the ravines and valleys, and to the desolate ruins and the abandoned cities that have become prey and an object of derision to the rest of the nations round about—36:5 therefore this is what the sovereign Lord says: Surely I have spoken in the fire of my zeal against the rest of the nations, and against all Edom, who with great joy and utter contempt have made my land their property and prey, because of its pasture.’ 36:6 “Therefore prophesy concerning the land of Israel, and say to the mountains and hills, the ravines and valleys, ‘This is what the sovereign Lord says: Look, I have spoken in my zeal and in my anger, because you (Israel) have endured the insults of the nations.

This is the promise to all Israel that their land will be rejuvenated and if you compare this prophecy to the striking punishments pronounced in Ezekiel 6 because of their abominations which it was made very clear would become desolate (vv. 1-6). But
here Ezekiel predicts its restoration in order to provide the foundation of life for Israel in the future Kingdom! For as the Kingdom
of God in the past was established upon a rural basis read Lev. 25, so I believe it will be in the future {Read Micah 4:4).

I suggest you read the prophecy as it was intended - in context to a first audience, who like you, also have a hope of salvation.

F2F

 

[Keraz]

I suggest you read the prophecy as it was intended - in context to a first audience

But this Prophecy has not yet been fulfilled;
Ezekiel: appointed as a watchman for the Israelites in exile Ezekiel 2:3 & 17

Ezekiel 36:1-38 This is what the Lord says about the Land of Israel: Israel, you were trampled down when you were occupied by other nations. I will now speak to the Land, plundered and despised by the surrounding nations.

In My burning zeal, I have spoken out against the rest of the nations, especially Edom, for with glee and malice they seized My Land as spoil. Therefore, because Israel has suffered the scorn of the nations, I swear that those nations will in turn suffer scorn.

But you, Land of Israel, bring forth your branches and yield your fruit for My people, for their homecoming is near. See how I will look on you with favour, you will be fruitful. I shall settle on you many people -the whole 12 tribes of Israel, the towns inhabited and the Land prosperous. My people, all the faithful Israelites will live there again, never again to leave. No longer will they suffer the scorn of foreigners.

When ancient Israel was living in the Land, they defiled it by their idolatry. I sentenced them to exile around the world. But I have concern for My Holy Name, so you Israelites, it is not for your sake that I am acting – I shall show My Holiness through you and all the nations will know that I am the Lord.

I shall take you out of the world, gather you from every land and bring you back to your homeland. I will purify you of everything that defiles you. You will have a new heart and I will put My spirit within you and you will desire to only follow My Laws.

Then you will live in the Land that I had given to your forefathers. You will be My people and I will be your God. Having saved you from all that defiles you, I shall command the Land to be plentiful, trees will bear abundant fruit and the soil will produce heavy crops. Never again will you suffer famine.

You will recall your wicked conduct and evil deeds and will hate yourself for them. Feel the shame and disgrace of your old ways, people of Israel.

The Lord says: when I have cleansed you of all your wrongdoings, you will settle in the Land and the ruined places will be rebuilt. The Land will be ploughed and sown, no longer a wasteland, rain will come in due season.
The nations still left around you will know that it is I, the Lord who has done this.

The Lord says; once again, I will let the Israelites pray to Me for help. They will become many, as flocks of sheep in the Land. As Jerusalem has flocks of sheep at festival time, so will the towns of Israel be filled with flocks of people.
Then they will know that I am their God.
Ref: REB verses abridged.



‘I will now speak to the Land, plundered and despised by the surrounding nations’. The Lord will once again take action on the earth, His holy Land; now inhabited mostly by atheists and foreigners are surrounded by nations and entities who hate the State of Israel and want to ‘’wipe it off the map’. Jeremiah 12:14, Psalm 83:1-8, Micah 4:11-12

‘In My burning zeal, I have spoken out against the rest of the nations, especially Edom’. This refers to the forthcoming Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, a worldwide judgement of fire, prophesies over 100 times in the Bible. The explosion of the suns surface, a massive CME, that He will use on that Day, will strike initially in the Middle East, particularly affecting the Middle East region. Zephaniah 2:4-5 It will be God’s solution for the troubles and strife there.

Ezekiel 35:1-14, describes in detail who modern day Edom is and what the Lord has planned for them; Ezekiel 35:5-6 They are peoples that have kept up their ancient feud with Israel and they glorify bloodshed and death

Jeremiah 25:32-33 Ruin spreads from nation to nation, a mighty tempest is coming onto all the godless peoples. Those whom the Lord has slain on that Day, will lie scattered from one end of the earth to the other, they will be as dung spread over the ground.

‘The homecoming of the whole twelve tribes of Israel is near. The people Jesus came to save: Mathew 15:24
They were sentenced to exile around the world for their sins, but now I shall take you out of the world, gather you from every land and settle you in your inheritance’.

The decreed exile of the Lord’s people is nearly over. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10

The gathering of all the [Christian] Israelite people from every race. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Micah 4:6

To all the land promised to the Patriarchs. Micah 7:11-12, Ezekiel 47:13-23

They will enter the land with great joy. Isaiah 66:14, Isaiah 62:1-5, Zechariah 8:1-8

And live there in peace and security. Isaiah 66:12-14, Jeremiah 30:19-20


‘I shall show My Holiness through you, you will receive a new heart and My spirit will come upon you’. This proves that all these events happen before the Return of Jesus, when he ‘comes in glory and all the world will see Him’. But until then, the Lord uses His people ‘to be a light to the nations and be His witnesses to the world’. Isaiah 49:8, Isaiah 43:10-12 The Lord will change the minds of His people, they will love Him unfailingly. Isaiah 32:15, Isaiah 59:21, Ezekiel 37:14 & 23

‘I shall command the Land to be plentiful, no longer a wasteland, rain will come in due season. The towns of Israel will be filled with people’. After the burning and earthquakes of this terrible CME; Malachi 4:1, Isaiah 66:15-16, Revelation 6:12-17 Ezekiel 38:8; says that His people, now every faithful Christian, Galatians 3:26-29 will be gathered from the nations, will be living in a Land recently recovered from ruin. Rain will come and the Land will be fertile. Isaiah 35:1-10, Zechariah 8:12, Psalms 68:9-10, Romans 9:24-26

“The nations still left around you’;
Amos 1:3-5 For crime after crime of Damascus, [Syria] I will send fire upon them. Isaiah 17:1-3

Amos 1:6-8 For crime after crime of Gaza, [Palestinians] all the Philistines will perish. Joel 3:4

Amos 1:9-10 For crime after crime of Tyre, [Lebanon] I shall send fire upon them. Eze. 26:15-21

Amos 1:11-12 For crime after crime of Edom, [Ishmaelites] I shall send fire upon you. Bozrah, [the sheepfold] cleansed to be the place of safety during the Tribulation. Isaiah 34:5-6

Amos 1:13-15 For crime after crime of the Ammonites, [Jordan] I shall send fire upon you. Their King will go into exile. Ezekiel 25:1-7

Amos 2:1-3 For crime after crime of Moab, [Southern Jordan: Arab peoples] I shall send fire upon you. Your King and officers will be killed. Ezekiel 30:2-5

Amos 2:4-5 For crime after crime of Judah, [the State of Israel] I shall send fire upon you, for you have not kept the Law. Ezekiel 20:47-48 Only a Jewish remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

Amos 2:6-16 For crime after crime of Israel, [the 10 tribes, in exile] They will be judged and their military destroyed. Isaiah 17:4-6

‘They will know that I am their God’. This makes it obvious that all this must take place before the visible Return of Jesus. His people, all the faithful Christians will be living once again in the holy Land, sending out missionaries and preparing for the coming Kingdom. Rev. 14:1-7, Isaiah 66:19

They choose their own leader. Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11

Ezekiel 28:24-26 No longer will the Israelites suffer from the scorn of their neighbours. When I gather the Israelites from where they have been dispersed, I shall show My Holiness in them for all the nations to see. After I execute My judgement on those scornful neighbours, My people will live on their own soil, undisturbed and they will build houses and plant vineyards, thus they will know that I am the Lord, their God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There is only the earth and the firmament called heaven. Read Genesis 1.

You say I am a liar saying you take everything symbolically,

Yes, because that was a lie.

yet you are the liar saying I take everything literally.

I didn't say that. I think you take a lot of things literally that are symbolic, but I didn't say you take everything literally. In fact, I said we both takes some things symbolically and some literally.

You are the one complaining, not me. Both examples are in your head. You claim I lie about you, then do the same thing you accused me of.

No, I didn't.

This argument about everything being either one way or the other is getting old, you would think.

Definitely. It would help if you grew up and stopped saying things that aren't true about others (whether it's on purpose or not).

So is there a third location you make up between heaven and earth, the angel came to?

It doesn't tell us. Can you acknowledge that or not? If it's meant to be taken literally the place is called the abyss or bottomless pit. Are you saying you think that's on the earth somewhere? If so, where is it?

You are the one preaching not everything has to be mentioned in every chapter.

Yes, that's true, but what evidence do you have that the angel comes to the earth to bind Satan? If you have some, that's fine. Go ahead and share it. Otherwise, all we can do is speculate on that.

Seems quite reasonable that Satan is loosed back to where he was bound from. If he was loosed onto the earth, then the earth was where he was originally bound from. That would be from your perspective.

I thought we were talking about where he is bound? We were talking about where the angel who comes from heaven goes to when he binds Satan, right? You were saying it's the earth, right? Or are you only talking about where he is loosed? You're hard to follow. Of course he is on the earth when he is loosed, as Revelation 20:7-9 indicates. We all agree on that. But, where do you think he is when he is bound? You have him being literally bound in a literal place apart from heaven or the earth, right? Or not? It's hard to tell what you believe about that exactly.

Of course from my perspective, Satan was cast out of heaven to the earth, at the 7th Trumpet, and as the 3rd woe, set up his Babylonian Empire on the earth.

Of course that is based on your erroneous chronological approach to the book.

Then he led the battle against Jesus at Armageddon, and was then bound because he was defeated and his armies destroyed. The other two of his cronies, were cast into the LOF a thousand years before Satan was loosed.

None of that fits the rest of scripture, but you don't seem to care about that. Premils make one of the most symbolic books in all of scripture their foundation and interpret the rest of scripture based on that instead of interpreting the book in light of more literal, straightforward scripture.

 

[face2face]

But this Prophecy has not yet been fulfilled;

A partial restoration of Israel has occured as you well know though they inhabit it on their terms for the time being...that will change.

Ezekiel: appointed as a watchman for the Israelites in exile Ezekiel 2:3 & 17

Ezekiel 36:1-38 This is what the Lord says about the Land of Israel: Israel, you were trampled down when you were occupied by other nations. I will now speak to the Land, plundered and despised by the surrounding nations.

Been happening for over 2500 years!

In My burning zeal, I have spoken out against the rest of the nations, especially Edom, for with glee and malice they seized My Land as spoil. Therefore, because Israel has suffered the scorn of the nations, I swear that those nations will in turn suffer scorn.

Yes, Christ is bringing great judgements against the Nations who have cursed Israel. See Abrahams promises!

But you, Land of Israel, bring forth your branches and yield your fruit for My people, for their homecoming is near. See how I will look on you with favour, you will be fruitful. I shall settle on you many people -the whole 12 tribes of Israel, the towns inhabited and the Land prosperous. My people, all the faithful Israelites will live there again, never again to leave. No longer will they suffer the scorn of foreigners.

When ancient Israel was living in the Land, they defiled it by their idolatry. I sentenced them to exile around the world. But I have concern for My Holy Name, so you Israelites, it is not for your sake that I am acting – I shall show My Holiness through you and all the nations will know that I am the Lord.

I shall take you out of the world, gather you from every land and bring you back to your homeland. I will purify you of everything that defiles you. You will have a new heart and I will put My spirit within you and you will desire to only follow My Laws.

Then you will live in the Land that I had given to your forefathers. You will be My people and I will be your God. Having saved you from all that defiles you, I shall command the Land to be plentiful, trees will bear abundant fruit and the soil will produce heavy crops. Never again will you suffer famine.

You will recall your wicked conduct and evil deeds and will hate yourself for them. Feel the shame and disgrace of your old ways, people of Israel.

The Lord says: when I have cleansed you of all your wrongdoings, you will settle in the Land and the ruined places will be rebuilt. The Land will be ploughed and sown, no longer a wasteland, rain will come in due season.
The nations still left around you will know that it is I, the Lord who has done this.

The Lord says; once again, I will let the Israelites pray to Me for help. They will become many, as flocks of sheep in the Land. As Jerusalem has flocks of sheep at festival time, so will the towns of Israel be filled with flocks of people.
Then they will know that I am their God.
Ref: REB verses abridged.



‘I will now speak to the Land, plundered and despised by the surrounding nations’. The Lord will once again take action on the earth, His holy Land; now inhabited mostly by atheists and foreigners are surrounded by nations and entities who hate the State of Israel and want to ‘’wipe it off the map’. Jeremiah 12:14, Psalm 83:1-8, Micah 4:11-12

Correct - the fulfillment of Ezek 36 will take place post Christs return and involve the Saints.

‘In My burning zeal, I have spoken out against the rest of the nations, especially Edom’. This refers to the forthcoming Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, a worldwide judgement of fire, prophesies over 100 times in the Bible. The explosion of the suns surface, a massive CME, that He will use on that Day, will strike initially in the Middle East, particularly affecting the Middle East region. Zephaniah 2:4-5 It will be God’s solution for the troubles and strife there.

Ezekiel 35:1-14, describes in detail who modern day Edom is and what the Lord has planned for them; Ezekiel 35:5-6 They are peoples that have kept up their ancient feud with Israel and they glorify bloodshed and death

Jeremiah 25:32-33 Ruin spreads from nation to nation, a mighty tempest is coming onto all the godless peoples. Those whom the Lord has slain on that Day, will lie scattered from one end of the earth to the other, they will be as dung spread over the ground.

‘The homecoming of the whole twelve tribes of Israel is near. The people Jesus came to save: Mathew 15:24
They were sentenced to exile around the world for their sins, but now I shall take you out of the world, gather you from every land and settle you in your inheritance’.

The decreed exile of the Lord’s people is nearly over. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10

The gathering of all the [Christian] Israelite people from every race. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Micah 4:6

Close...drop the Christian part and you have God's work in restoring the Kingdom of Isael in the earth as promised.

To all the land promised to the Patriarchs. Micah 7:11-12, Ezekiel 47:13-23

They will enter the land with great joy. Isaiah 66:14, Isaiah 62:1-5, Zechariah 8:1-8

And live there in peace and security. Isaiah 66:12-14, Jeremiah 30:19-20


‘I shall show My Holiness through you, you will receive a new heart and My spirit will come upon you’. This proves that all these events happen before the Return of Jesus, when he ‘comes in glory and all the world will see Him’. But until then, the Lord uses His people ‘to be a light to the nations and be His witnesses to the world’. Isaiah 49:8, Isaiah 43:10-12 The Lord will change the minds of His people, they will love Him unfailingly. Isaiah 32:15, Isaiah 59:21, Ezekiel 37:14 & 23

‘I shall command the Land to be plentiful, no longer a wasteland, rain will come in due season. The towns of Israel will be filled with people’. After the burning and earthquakes of this terrible CME; Malachi 4:1, Isaiah 66:15-16, Revelation 6:12-17 Ezekiel 38:8; says that His people, now every faithful Christian, Galatians 3:26-29 will be gathered from the nations, will be living in a Land recently recovered from ruin. Rain will come and the Land will be fertile. Isaiah 35:1-10, Zechariah 8:12, Psalms 68:9-10, Romans 9:24-26

“The nations still left around you’;
Amos 1:3-5 For crime after crime of Damascus, [Syria] I will send fire upon them. Isaiah 17:1-3

Amos 1:6-8 For crime after crime of Gaza, [Palestinians] all the Philistines will perish. Joel 3:4

Amos 1:9-10 For crime after crime of Tyre, [Lebanon] I shall send fire upon them. Eze. 26:15-21

Amos 1:11-12 For crime after crime of Edom, [Ishmaelites] I shall send fire upon you. Bozrah, [the sheepfold] cleansed to be the place of safety during the Tribulation. Isaiah 34:5-6

Amos 1:13-15 For crime after crime of the Ammonites, [Jordan] I shall send fire upon you. Their King will go into exile. Ezekiel 25:1-7

Amos 2:1-3 For crime after crime of Moab, [Southern Jordan: Arab peoples] I shall send fire upon you. Your King and officers will be killed. Ezekiel 30:2-5

Amos 2:4-5 For crime after crime of Judah, [the State of Israel] I shall send fire upon you, for you have not kept the Law. Ezekiel 20:47-48 Only a Jewish remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

Amos 2:6-16 For crime after crime of Israel, [the 10 tribes, in exile] They will be judged and their military destroyed. Isaiah 17:4-6

You needed to go to the end of Amos to get God's plan for Israel. Amos 9:15

I will plant them (Israel) on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them,” says the LORD your God.

Of course this cannot be referring to Christians as they have never owned the land or been uprooted from it like Israel has!

‘They will know that I am their God’. This makes it obvious that all this must take place before the visible Return of Jesus. His people, all the faithful Christians will be living once again in the holy Land, sending out missionaries and preparing for the coming Kingdom. Rev. 14:1-7, Isaiah 66:19

They choose their own leader. Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11

Ezekiel 28:24-26 No longer will the Israelites suffer from the scorn of their neighbours. When I gather the Israelites from where they have been dispersed, I shall show My Holiness in them for all the nations to see. After I execute My judgement on those scornful neighbours, My people will live on their own soil, undisturbed and they will build houses and plant vineyards, thus they will know that I am the Lord, their God.

You need to drop the Christians - its not about us! Lose that focus and you will find truth.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Keraz I am busy over the next few days but I will be sure to spend some more time on this with you God Willing.
F2F

 

[Keraz]

Of course this cannot be referring to Christians as they have never owned the land or been uprooted from it like Israel has!

This is where you are wrong.
We Christians are mainly descended from the ten Northen tribes. This is provable fact. The holy Land is our heritage. Ephesians 1:11 & 18, Romans 8:16-18 We; the House of Israel; were exiled from the holy Land in 722BC and the House of Judah was in 586 BC.
Both for a decreed time; Ezekiel 4:4-6

Paul prophesied our return in Romans 9:24-26....in the very place...... And John sees us there; Revelation 7:9

@Keraz I am busy over the next few days but I will be sure to spend some more time on this with you God Willing.
F2F

Perhaps you could look at my website; logostelos.info - at the many articles on Bibkle Prophecy, referring to the true Israel of God.

 

[face2face]

This is where you are wrong.
We Christians are mainly descended from the ten Northen tribes. This is provable fact. The holy Land is our heritage. Ephesians 1:11 & 18, Romans 8:16-18 We; the House of Israel; were exiled from the holy Land in 722BC and the House of Judah was in 586 BC.
Both for a decreed time; Ezekiel 4:4-6

Paul prophesied our return in Romans 9:24-26....in the very place...... And John sees us there; Revelation 7:9

Perhaps you could look at my website; logostelos.info - at the many articles on Bibkle Prophecy, referring to the true Israel of God.

So, what in affect you are saying, is you believe all the prophecies Ezekiel gave to Israel, didn't apply to the nation of Israel, but to you?

You're not serious Keraz! Gentiles have their own prophecies in Scripture, why would you want to steal theirs?

F2F

 

[marks]

So, what in affect you are saying, is you believe all the prophecies Ezekiel gave to Israel, didn't apply to the nation of Israel, but to you?

You're not serious Keraz! Gentiles have their own prophecies in Scripture, why would you want to steal theirs?

F2F

I think you are missing his point. @Keraz is saying that we who are Christians are the descendants of Jacob through the 10 northern tribes. They were scattered throughout the earth, but now "we" have all been coming to Christ, along with some gentiles. So perhaps I'm a gentile, but long odds are that I'm from one of the 10 tribes of Israel, scattered by God using Assyria. What he is saying, that is, for me, I'm not 100% sure on that.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

I think you are missing his point. @Keraz is saying that we who are Christians are the descendants of Jacob through the 10 northern tribes. They were scattered throughout the earth, but now "we" have all been coming to Christ, along with some gentiles. So perhaps I'm a gentile, but long odds are that I'm from one of the 10 tribes of Israel, scattered by God using Assyria. What he is saying, that is, for me, I'm not 100% sure on that.

Much love!

Thanks, Marks, for clarifying that for me! @Keraz

The answer is an emphatic no! absolutely not!

How do we know this is speaking to the Hope of Israel as per the chain which Paul was bound with in Acts 28:20?

Well its very simple...the Kingdom of Israel is the future Kingdom of God on the earth - all these prophecies were known by the Apostles (their Sunday School Lesson so to speak) that's why in Acts 1:6

Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

If you see verse 3 the Kingdom of Israel is synonymous with the Kingdom of God.

So, the fulfillment of Ezekiel 36 is speaking to a time NOT when immortals inhabit the land, but when the mortal population of (natural) Israel after many trials at brought into the New Covenant through faith inherit the land. Remember, God's plan is to fill his earth with His Glory and that starts with the throne of David from Jerusalem.

I keep saying this, God has NOT put away his people and He is still working to the promises He made to them - He does not forget!

Keraz, needs to approach these prophecies as the Israelite Apostles did in their day.

Take this idea of "restore" which was in the mind of the Apostles and in fact in the Lords mind though he did not know the future or the times and seasons!

The Greek for restore is apokathistaneis means "to establish; set up; return to its former estate."

The first occurrence of the word is in Mat. 12:13.

Then he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other.

The "type" was revealed in the work of the king Solomon: 2 Chr. 28:5; 29:23, but his kingdom failed through the incompetence of king and people. The throne of David was consequently overturned (Ezez 21:24), but it was always the divine intention to restore its glory in due time. This was announced in prophecy (Amos 9:11), and became the constant anticipation of faithful believers (Luke 2:38)

In that day “I will restore David’s fallen shelter— I will repair its broken walls and restore its ruins and will rebuild it as it used to be,(Amos 9:11)

Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.

What we are talking about here is the fulfillment of Ezek 11:19-20

I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. 20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

The assumption God abandoned His people, natural Israel, is a dangerous one, because as we are seeing, you must take these utterances away from those who received them and give them to a people who they were never intended for.

Also, as the Lord stated, and we must be fearful of this one thing, that "which the Father hath put in his own power" we must not pretend to know more than we actually do! It's by His own authority that He will deal with bringing these prophecies to completion in His time. The information concerning the future time-period is held by the Father for the benefit of those who are encouraged to prepare for the return of the Master (Heb. 11:3; Rev. 1:1).

If Keraz cannot speak to the original audience and their future hope, then I'm afraid he stands on shaky ground.

F2F

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, because that was a lie.



I didn't say that. I think you take a lot of things literally that are symbolic, but I didn't say you take everything literally. In fact, I said we both takes some things symbolically and some literally.


No, I didn't.


Definitely. It would help if you grew up and stopped saying things that aren't true about others (whether it's on purpose or not).


It doesn't tell us. Can you acknowledge that or not? If it's meant to be taken literally the place is called the abyss or bottomless pit. Are you saying you think that's on the earth somewhere? If so, where is it?


Yes, that's true, but what evidence do you have that the angel comes to the earth to bind Satan? If you have some, that's fine. Go ahead and share it. Otherwise, all we can do is speculate on that.


I thought we were talking about where he is bound? We were talking about where the angel who comes from heaven goes to when he binds Satan, right? You were saying it's the earth, right? Or are you only talking about where he is loosed? You're hard to follow. Of course he is on the earth when he is loosed, as Revelation 20:7-9 indicates. We all agree on that. But, where do you think he is when he is bound? You have him being literally bound in a literal place apart from heaven or the earth, right? Or not? It's hard to tell what you believe about that exactly.


Of course that is based on your erroneous chronological approach to the book.


None of that fits the rest of scripture, but you don't seem to care about that. Premils make one of the most symbolic books in all of scripture their foundation and interpret the rest of scripture based on that instead of interpreting the book in light of more literal, straightforward scripture.

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

 

[Siddhi Koli]

Jesus returns in the clouds and calls up believers and then seven years later returns to earth with the raptured believers to defwat all evil and to set up His 1000 year kingdom on earth. Will you be there??

Yes amen

 

[Keraz]

you believe all the prophecies Ezekiel gave to Israel, didn't apply to the nation of Israel, but to you?

The unfulfilled Prophesies apply to Gods people, who today: are the Christian peoples. Jew and Gentile, all the true Christian believers.

The answer is an emphatic no! absolutely not!

Marks said what I believe correctly.
There still remain today, the 2 Houses - Israel, the people Jesus came to save, Matthew 15:24, and the Jews representing the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. Some from other tribes joined Judah when they split up, thru the age and still do so today. They become Jewish and practise Judaism.

I keep saying this, God has NOT put away his people and He is still working to the promises He made to them - He does not forget!

God surely made promises to both Houses. For Israel; their redemption and restoration, for Judah their virtual demise and the remnant survivors will be so ashamed of their rejection of Jesus, they will never speak out again. Ezekiel 16:63

You don't seem to have read or understood the many Prophesies for each House. Amos 2:4-5 about Judah, and Amos 2:6 & Amos 5:1-15, Amos 9:7-15, apply to the House of Israel, still scattered among the nations.

The belief of a general restoration of Jewish Israel, is wrong and is never said to happen in the Bible. The Jews still, after nearly 2000 years; reject Jesus. Why should God redeem them? Their fate is clearly stated; Isaiah 22:14 and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

 

[face2face]

only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

I deleted the error and kept of your post what is true - "All Israel will be saved" is not all Israel as we know it today.

It's obvious to me you have not studied the restoration prophecies which God has clearly left for you.

Ezek 20:33 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I will reign over you with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with outpoured wrath. 34 I will bring you from the nations and gather you from the countries where you have been scattered—with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with outpoured wrath. 35 I will bring you into the wilderness of the nations and there, face to face, I will execute judgment upon you. 36 As I judged your ancestors in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will judge you, declares the Sovereign Lord. 37 I will take note of you as you pass under my rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant. 38 I will purge you of those who revolt and rebel against me. Although I will bring them out of the land where they are living, yet they will not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord.

AND

“You are my war club, my weapon for battle—with you I shatter nations, with you I destroy kingdoms, Jer 51:20

I'm going to ask you some questions about this unfulfilled prophecy:

1. Show me in the Scripture HOW God will he gather the lost tribes of Israel in the Earth and through whom? (a hint Jer. 25:31-33)

2. Where is the location of this "wilderness of the peoples?"

3. Why would God want to plead with these people?

4. Who will administer the rod of discipline which these peoples will pass under?

5. God will bring them into the Bond of the Covenant and write His commandments upon their hearts as per Jer. 31:31-33
- explain why its significant from an OT perspective - has God redeem these people like this before? What makes this an even greater example than previous?

Dont fall on your sword and give us what you think you already know - study and learn what this Prophecy is teaching and how it works with other prophecies in the OT!

What I'm looking for is you being able to speak to actual events to occur in the Earth prior to and after the Lords return.

F2F

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

What was your reason for posting this exactly? Did you expect me to determine that by reading your mind?

 

[Keraz]

It's obvious to me you have not studied the restoration prophecies which God has clearly left for you

What is obvious to me, is that you think people who reject Jesus, Jew or Gentile will be restored, redeemed and forgiven.
The Lord will destroy ALL of His enemies, ALL those who reject and hate Him; period!

What I'm looking for is you being able to speak to actual events to occur in the Earth prior to and after the Lords return.

I have posted here and on other forums many timelines and the correct sequence of events, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus, to reign on earth for the next thousand years.
Much is yet to happen before the Return. it will be our test of faith, 1 Peter 4:12, and only those who stand firm in their faith, proving their trust in His help for us to pass through it all safely.