The Son of Man returns with and for his people

[Timtofly]

Try sticking to Scripture's point.

I have been.

 

[ewq1938]

"a living breathing creature"
Same as the animals!

For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity Eccl 3

In terms of our physical makeup our bodies are precisely the same - your quote in Genesis confirms this as do many Scriptures.

Our ability to reason is the "likeness" made and that's it!

Likeness in Hebrew just means to look like something, literally a likeness of something else. The ability to reason is related to the type of brain we were given.


Gen_1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.



image
H6754
???
tselem
tseh'-lem
From an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, that is, (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence a representative figure, especially an idol : - image, vain shew.



likeness
H1823
??????
demu^th
dem-ooth'
From H1819; resemblance; concretely model, shape; adverbially like: - fashion, like (-ness, as), manner, similitude.

 

[face2face]

You still don't get it. You have something, but not the truth. Especially since you keep insisting on the wrong application of Scripture.

Is that is?.

 

[Keraz]

And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand" Ezek 37:17

Been and gone? Yet to be fulfilled? Done away with in Spiritual Israel?

No; yet to be literally fulfilled.
Gods secret is the whereabouts and identity of the actual descendants of Israel and Judah. He knows who and where they are. Amos 9:8b-9

It is a mystery that isn't for us to know, all will be revealed soon after the Sixth Seal worldwide change.
Ezekiel 37:1-14 is fulfilled now by the Christian peoples.
Ezekiel 37:15-28 awaits our gathering into all of the holy Land; Ezekiel 20:34-38

 

[CadyandZoe]

A gentile Israelite is not a contradiction.
Israelite literally means an Overcomer for God. As Jacob was and as we Christians are today.
Proved by Galatians 3:26-29 and Galatians 6:14-16

In my mind, a "Gentile" is anyone other than an Israelite, a "Gentile" nation is any other nation but Israel. In other words, from a Jewish perspective, there is "us" and there is everybody else.

 

[Keraz]

In my mind, a "Gentile" is anyone other than an Israelite, a "Gentile" nation is any other nation but Israel. In other words, from a Jewish perspective, there is "us" and there is everybody else.

What then can 'the fullness of the Gentiles', mean other than that we Christians become true Israelites?
Its difficult, I know; but people need to overcome their belief that the Jews are the real Israel and we are just wanna be's.
The NT makes it clear: We Christians are the real Israelites. the people of the State of Israel, falsely claim the name of Israel. Their fate is well Prophesied. Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 6:11-13, +

 

[face2face]

Ezekiel 37:1-14 is fulfilled now by the Christian peoples.

So you spiritualise this section to apply to Christians and not natural Israel?

I'm curious, how do you justify a prophet who is clearly speaking to the scattered Jews throughout the world to apply to Christians?

Happy to consider your evidence.

F2F

 

[covenantee]

I have been.

So have I. I even quoted it.

 

[CadyandZoe]

What then can 'the fullness of the Gentiles', mean other than that we Christians become true Israelites?
Its difficult, I know; but people need to overcome their belief that the Jews are the real Israel and we are just wanna be's.
The NT makes it clear: We Christians are the real Israelites. the people of the State of Israel, falsely claim the name of Israel. Their fate is well Prophesied. Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 6:11-13, +

Paul coined a term he uses to indicate all believers who have ever lived down through time: the "pleroma," the totality and fullness of the "called out ones." This includes each and every person whom God has granted the indwelling of the Holy Spirit throughout all of human history. This would not only include the apostles and the disciples of Christ, it includes people like Daniel, Job, David, and Abraham.

The phrase "fulness of the Gentiles" refers to the full complement of Gentiles that God is saving. God has a target number in mind and when he reaches that number, no more Gentiles will come to believe and be saved.

 

[covenantee]

In my mind, a "Gentile" is anyone other than an Israelite, a "Gentile" nation is any other nation but Israel. In other words, from a Jewish perspective, there is "us" and there is everybody else.

The Jewish perspective is the perspective of antichrist.

It is the antithesis of the Christian perspective.

 

[Marty fox]

Well since that moment was the Cross, that was when all souls could receive a physical body. You can wait for your body, or not, as you are not the potter, just the clay.

I was never dust. I am not the body, but the soul.

Did humans start with the body or the soul:

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

You are a trinity mind, body and soul

 

[Keraz]

So you spiritualise this section to apply to Christians and not natural Israel?

I'm curious, how do you justify a prophet who is clearly speaking to the scattered Jews throughout the world to apply to Christians?

Happy to consider your evidence.

F2F

Ezekiel 37:11 makes it clear: the Lord is talking about the whole House of Israel, of which Judah; the Jews, are just 2/12ths.
Natural Israel, as you say; includes the ten Northern tribes, still scattered among the nations.
The 'dry bones' are allegorical for our situation before we heard the Gospel. Note: how those 'bones' are scattered about, as we Christians are today.

All of Ezekiel 37:1-14 is clearly the story of how Jesus came to save the Israelites of the ten tribes. Matthew 15:24
Judah had the opportunity, but they demanded that Jesus be killed and cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25
Over 20 Prophesies tell of the Judgment of Jewish Israel and their virtual demise. Only a remnant will join their Christian brethren. Jeremiah 50:4-5, Ezekiel 37:15-28

Do not think they have already rejoined, as the blessings Premised to them, all of His Christian peoples, have not yet been fulfilled.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That was not an accusation. That was a conditional thought.

Why not call it what it actually was? A lie. I have never indicated that I believe everything is symbolic.

Although I am not sure what you do interpret as literal from Revelation.

I'm not going to list everything, but I'll give you a few examples. Starting with Revelation 1, I believe Jesus Christ is the literal firstborn of the dead, the literal ruler of the kings of the earth and that He literally "made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father". I believe the seven churches referenced in the book were actual, literal churches in seven different literal cities in the literal ancient province of Asia. I believe John was a literal person who literally wrote the book as inspired by the Holy Spirit. I believe the souls that John saw were the literal souls of the physically/bodily dead in Christ. I believe the people of the literal church in the literal city of Ephesus literally worked hard, persevered and didn't tolerate wicked people, but they also literally forsook their first love and needed to repent of that.

You are the one that claims as written should be symbolic.

And here's yet another misrepresentation of what I said. Whether it's due to you being a habitual liar or due to you having horrible reading comprehension skills, I'm not sure. Since you misrepresent what I say so often, it's hard to know if you're doing it on purpose or not.

I clam that "as written" should refer to the text "as written" in the sense of whether it's written symbolically or literally. You seem to think taking it as written means it should be taken literally.

I don't know if you interpret more of it symbolically than I do.

I probably do, but the fact is that neither of us interpret it all literally nor all symbolically.

The verse you use is a symbolic reference. So, no Satan has not been literally bound for the last 2,000 years. Symbolically, probably, but nothing has really changed in your symbolic binding. Even you state Satan is able to do every thing he always did, just less of it. I think the Holy Spirit being allowed to work more freely would produce the same results as your symbolic binding. It is the Holy Spirit that keeps Satan in check. Not automatically as if the church could sit back and do nothing. The more active and involved in this spiritual battle the church is, the more bound Satan becomes.

The binding in Revelation 20 is literal and Satan has no influence at all. Amillennialism is not found anywhere in Scripture, just human theology, so I don't have to accept it, and of course it does not make sense.

You do nothing to show how you can reconcile your interpretation of Revelation 20 with other scripture. Other scripture indicates that Jesus has been reigning for a long time already and that believers were made priests long ago already. Do you take that into account when interpreting Revelation 20? It doesn't seem like you do.

You are the one who makes the excuse Revelation is too symbolic, to be taken literally.

I have never said that. You have misrepresented what I've said yet again.

That is why I moved to as written, so you would point out what was written literally and what was written using symbolism. For instance.

Just use the terms literal or symbolic so that you don't cause confusion. If something is symbolic and we interpret it to be symbolic, are we not interpreting it "as written"? Sure. So, it makes more sense to just use the terms "literal" or "symbolic" to describe how you think any given text should be interpreted.

A literal angel comes to earth. That is written symbolically as a star falls to earth. That seems pretty straightforward.

Are you referring to Revelation 20? That refers to an angel specifically (not a star) coming down from heaven, but it does not say he comes to the earth. This is an example of how you read things into the text that aren't there.

Now take the point. They lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. That is a literal statement meant to be taken literally.

That's your opinion. Prove it by showing how your opinion agrees with scripture, overall. How does this agree with the scriptures which indicate that Jesus began to reign after His resurrection? Unless you start showing how you can reconcile your interpretation with the rest of scripture, I will have to continue to not take your arguments seriously.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The Jewish perspective is the perspective of antichrist.

It is the antithesis of the Christian perspective.

Jesus was a Jew.

 

[covenantee]

Jesus was a Jew.

Christ is a Christian.

 

[face2face]

Ezekiel 37:11 makes it clear: the Lord is talking about the whole House of Israel, of which Judah; the Jews, are just 2/12ths.
Natural Israel, as you say; includes the ten Northern tribes, still scattered among the nations.
The 'dry bones' are allegorical for our situation before we heard the Gospel. Note: how those 'bones' are scattered about, as we Christians are today.

I dont see an allegorical fulfillment of this prophecy. (I like to stay with the primary lessons)

Verse 14 is interesting. "and I will place you in your own land"

Israel has been scattered from AD70 till midnight on May 14, 1948. Not a complete restoration, but certainly the bones began to rattle.
The complete restoration of the nation of Israel in their land will take place after the battle of Armageddon (Ezek 39:25-26). The partial restoration has already taken place. The miracle of modern day Israel is a resurrection every living person over the past 75 years has witnessed! "people are without excuse!"

All of Ezekiel 37:1-14 is clearly the story of how Jesus came to save the Israelites of the ten tribes. Matthew 15:24
Judah had the opportunity, but they demanded that Jesus be killed and cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25
Over 20 Prophesies tell of the Judgment of Jewish Israel and their virtual demise. Only a remnant will join their Christian brethren. Jeremiah 50:4-5, Ezekiel 37:15-28

Do not think they have already rejoined, as the blessings Premised to them, all of His Christian peoples, have not yet been fulfilled.

Your timelines are out I'm afraid - Ezekiel 37 and its fulfillment is post second coming of the Lord.

"Then shall you know that I, God, have spoken it, and performed it"

I know many Christians in this forum fail to see the Hand of God in the partial restoration of Israel to the Land. Israel for now imagine that they have built up their resources by their own ingenuity and power. For that purpose they must be humbled and caused to understand that they can do nothing effectively without the support of God's power. As the prophecy foretells Gog will be permitted to sweep down and destroy all that they have they have built up that they might learn: "Except God build the house, they labor in vain that build
it" (Ps 127).

After Israel has been humbled by this experience God will declare: "NOW will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel" (Ezek 39:25).

He will do it after the judgment of Armageddon, when the Jewish people's confidence in self has been so reduced as to make them ready for His exaltation of them in the earth. Most Christians don't understand God's complete plan with Israel; he hasn't finished with His Witness in the earth that is for sure!

Other events surround this time critical to the establishment of the Kingdom of God on earth.

F2F

 

[Timtofly]

You are a trinity mind, body and soul

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

 

[Timtofly]

You seem to think taking it as written means it should be taken literally.

Now, who is the habitual liar?

Are you referring to Revelation 20? That refers to an angel specifically (not a star) coming down from heaven, but it does not say he comes to the earth. This is an example of how you read things into the text that aren't there.

Where was Satan? You claim the angel did not come to earth. Where was Satan when Satan was bound?

 

[Keraz]

Israel has been scattered from AD70 till midnight on May 14, 1948.

AS I said before; you fail to distinguish between Israel; the Christian peoples and Judah; the Jewish people.
That they have usurped the name of Israel, doesn't make the Jews true Israelites of God.

Also you seem to think the Prophecy of Isaiah 66:7-9 was fulfilled by the establishment of the Jewish state. That idea is incorrect, as it took 50 years for that to happen. It is obvious that the Promises of God for when it does really happen, Isaiah 66:10-14, remain unfulfilled.

Your timelines are out I'm afraid - Ezekiel 37 and its fulfillment is post second coming of the Lord.

Read Ezekiel 37 again and see that the people restored to the holy Land will know the Lord by His actions, not by His Presence.

There will be no Jewish redemption, that idea is false and made to support the false 'rapture to heaven' theory.

Most Christians don't understand God's complete plan with Israel

Obviously; you don't understand it. The New Testament makes it plain that the Israelites of God are the Christian peoples. Galatians 3:26-29 & 6:14-16 John see us in the holy Land; Revelation 7:9

 

[face2face]

AS I said before; you fail to distinguish between Israel; the Christian peoples and Judah; the Jewish people.
That they have usurped the name of Israel, doesn't make the Jews true Israelites of God.

Also you seem to think the Prophecy of Isaiah 66:7-9 was fulfilled by the establishment of the Jewish state. That idea is incorrect, as it took 50 years for that to happen. It is obvious that the Promises of God for when it does really happen, Isaiah 66:10-14, remain unfulfilled.

Read Ezekiel 37 again and see that the people restored to the holy Land will know the Lord by His actions, not by His Presence.

There will be no Jewish redemption, that idea is false and made to support the false 'rapture to heaven' theory.

Obviously; you don't understand it. The New Testament makes it plain that the Israelites of God are the Christian peoples. Galatians 3:26-29 & 6:14-16 John see us in the holy Land; Revelation 7:9

Your issue is plain to see.

"these bones are the whole house of Israel"

Throughout Ezekiels prophecies he refers to "Israel" in addition to Judah, which indicates that he had been also in contact with people of the ten tribes. Most probably a remnant of them as well as those of the house of Judah had gathered around him in Tel Abib.

Regardless, his prophecies had primary application to Judah (Ezek 19:1-4, 9). In Ezekiel 2:3 the prophet's message is directed to the two houses of Israel, and now the angel emphasises that this prophecy of the restoration likewise relates to "the whole house of Israel" to this we have the confirmatory statement of the apostle Paul who declared that "all Israel shall be saved" (Rom. 11:26).

Interpreting the primary first audience hearing is imperative and not to apply a modernistic view which finds you forcing these prophecies into your own eschatological model.

F2F