Split within the Southern Baptist Church

[Behold]

His ruling on divorce upset the Apostles and the reading suggests an argument between Him and His Apostles.

That's a good myth.
I wonder who made it up.

Christ told them there were a lot of things He needed to tell them, but they could not bear it then .

This was not based on them not being able to accept it.
It was based on them not being able to spiritually discern, at a mature level, at that time.
This is why Jesus sent Paul to the apostles, and to us.

What you are proposing is a static and stale religion

Not at all.
Im teaching that the Divine order, and Pauline Theology trumps secular opinion, day and night and forever.

God counts on me to know right from wrong.

You believe that women should be a "Pastor" and can't understand why that will never be "right" with God.

Does that mean it wont happen?
Of course not.
As a matter of fact, the more ungodly the church, the more liberal is the theology.

 

[amigo de christo]

Thank you.
Women were the first at the tomb, the  first to announce the news that Jesus was no longer entombed.
Women have been the single most strength in many families over many generations bc men thought religion in homes was "fluff" to their " man-hood", and the
" little woman's" job to teach the children among whom were both male and female !

It was man and woman who FAILED GOD
and it is men and women who continue to fail GOD , lest their HOPE BE IN JESUS CHRIST ALONE .
Let that sink in real deep my dear , dear sister .
The sex of a person matters not , the color of their skin matters not .
Whether male , whether female , whether black or white WE MEN and WE WOMEN can DO NOTHING
without HIM . I just felt led to REMIND US ALL of this .

 

[Grailhunter]

That's a good myth.
I wonder who made it up.

The Bible is not a myth...all ya got to do is read it.

 

[Grailhunter]

This was not based on them not being able to accept it.
It was based on them not being able to spiritually discern, at a mature level, at that time.
This is why Jesus sent Paul to the apostles, and to us.

Interpreting for God now are we?
He sent Paul for sure and He also sent the Holy Spirit too.

 

[Behold]

The Bible is not a myth...all ya got to do is read it.

I didnt tell you that the bible is "myth".

I told you that this is myth.

"""""His ruling on divorce upset the Apostles and the reading suggests an argument between Him and His Apostles.""

See that?

That is "myth".

 

[Behold]

Interpreting for God now are we?

Once your opinions become false accusations, it makes it more difficult for us to have a reasonable discourse.

So, do yourself a favor.
Before you make another false accusation, be sure to QUOTE ME, as that way, the reader will see that you didn't prove what you said, again.

 

[amigo de christo]

Dance an all out jig of praise unto the Glorious LORD .

 

[Grailhunter]

Im teaching that the Bible trumps secular opinion, day and night and forever.

As a whole I agree but there are a lot of issues and topics that occur in the modern world that could not be addressed in the scriptures and God counts on us to address them based on the Spirit of Christ....

 

[Grailhunter]

You believe that women should be a "Pastor" and can't understand why that will never be "right" with God.

Does that mean it wont happen?
Of course not.
As a matter of fact, the more ungodly the church, the more liberal is the theology.

Women being equal members in the body of Christ.....rights and privileges like all Christians....is not liberal....it is right and fair. Christianity has hated and mistreated women long enough! Mistreating and demeaning people is not the character and Spirit of Christ.

 

[Behold]

As a whole I agree but there are a lot of issues and topics that occur in the modern world that could not be addressed in the scriptures and God counts on us to address them based on the Spirit of Christ....

listen.

Paul told a believer to be a good slave, and to serve well in that position.

That is the "time they lived in"... and is specific to that situation.
He was not making a doctrinal theological observation.
See, had Paul turned on his "civil rights" parade manifesto, and told the believer to "buck the system" then that believer would have been murdered.

Do you understand what im showing you?

So, in that situation, what Paul said to do, is what you do to keep on breathing and have some sort of decent life, as in that situation, many of these slaves were treated very well........and unlike some of what happened to some of the British and American Slaves.

So, Paul also said, to deal with everyone with as much love and patience as you can offer them, but if they just keep kicking you, then there comes a point where you help them settle down into a more respectful position.

Here is one more for you.
On Christian forums, im the person who started the "Pauline Theology", point of view, and also this term "Heretics'.
See those?
They came from me, as before i showed up some years ago to all Christian forums , no one was talking about "heretics" or "Pauline Theology".
Its different now.
And that is a very good thing, as Pauline Theology is the only REAL NT doctrine, and "heretics", .... this term...... has to be understood so that a real believer can be protected from them.

 

[Rockerduck]

In Christ's era society and religion was male dominant. To change that would take time and His first priority was to save souls. But in the above scripture is Christ talking about the things the Holy Spirit would teach us. As a theologian and a historian I find some humor in how long it took us to catch on to some basic concepts of right and wrong.

Mr. Christian thinks it is OK to have slaves......How long did it take us to learn that?.....when this is a pretty basic concept of right and wrong.

Mr. Christian thinks it is OK to have multiple wives...this went on for several centuries after the biblical era....it was one of the reasons that Paul had to stipulate that a church leader had to be married to only one wife. Married and one wife that is another topic.

Mr. Christian thinks it is OK that a lady's father should choose her husband ....Christian women did not have the right to choose their own husband.....the Catholic Church put an end to this, I think in the 12th century.

It has taken a lot of time for Christians to recognize right from wrong and that is just sad. But should we continue not knowing right from wrong? Women have held a second rate status in Christianity for long enough. Christian men should be ashamed of themselves, for God sake they had mothers, just how dense are they? It is right that women be equal members in Christianity. It is right that women be allowed to preach and hold authority in the church. How long will it take for the Holy Spirit to teach us this next lesson when again it is so clearly the right thing to do?

For you to be a historian, you did not note the wars and conflicts. When a village was attacked, who did the fighting? Men did, to protect women and children. When wars broke out who did the fighting? Men did. Men did what men did, and women did what women did. That still hasn't stopped. War broke out in Ukraine, who are fighting? That's right. Should men be ashamed to fight for his family and go to work to support them? Two working parents families started under President Clinton. A Christian man defends and protects his family, when did you find an example of the other way around. Still today, I've yet to meet a woman who doesn't want a man around to protect her.

 

[Behold]

Women being equal members in the body of Christ.....rights and privileges like all Christians....is not liberal....it is right and fair.

Women are allowed to do every "male" ministry" other than be a Pastor.
Apparently they can't be an Apostle, so, that one is also not available.
They also can't be a male, so that option is out, as well.
I hope you dont mind Grailhunter, but even tho you do, it wont matter to God.

And trust me when i tell you that God was not being a "Bigot" when He created them Male and Female.
He made the man first and that is SIGNIFICANT.
He was not being a bigot when He said the woman is made for the man, and the man is the head of the woman, in the Marriage.
He is not being a Bigot when He created Eve from one of Adam's "Ribs"

Its a very interesting that the man is supposed to love the woman as "Jesus loves the Church" and the woman is supposed to respect the man.
That is very interesting, as the NT could have said, "both should just love", but it doesn't.
I hope that does not upset you, Grailhunter.

God is not being a bigot when He made Jesus (and not Eve or Mary) the Head of the "body of Christ".

See, God is a God of order and He has His perspective on that, and secular culture has no use for God or His Divine Order.
Many Christians are exactly the same in their thinking as the world system would dictate.

 

[Grailhunter]

Once your opinions become false accusations, it makes it more difficult for us to have a reasonable discourse.

So, do yourself a favor.
Before you make another false accusation, be sure to QUOTE ME, as that way, the reader will see that you didn't prove what you said, again.

Since you refuse to read the Bible let me help ya out.

Matthew chapter 19
3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

 

[Behold]

Since you refuse to read the Bible let me help ya out.

Matthew chapter 19
3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him.

You want me to conclude that the Son of Man talking to an unsaved OT Pharisee who was trying to trap Him into a game of words, is the same as the NT talking to a born again Believer, regarding marriage, divorce, and remarriage?

C'mon.

You need to rethink your position, regarding quite a few of your opinions, Grailhunter.

 

[Behold]

10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

And then when we get our New Testament, we find that Paul says.

"do we not have a right to lead about a Wife, as do Peter and some of the apostles"?

I Corinthians 9:5

This is the same Paul who told us its better not to marry, and that is because once you do it, then in come the kids, and the problems, and you dont have the time anymore to spend on GOD STUFF.

But, there is only one way to be that type of Eunuch.

You have to have the gift from God, of total self control over your sex drive.
Few have that gift.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

When Christ and the Apostle were together, they were not writing the rules for the body of Christ.
They were dealing only with the House of Israel, under the Old Covenant.

Once the Cross was raised, the NT "church" was born and that is when Jesus sent in Paul and the "church doctrine" is manifested.

Once JESUS was RAISED OR RESURRECTED, from death, not the cross, then the body or " church" received it's head ! He could have called tens of thousands of angel to remove his body from " the cross", or used his own power .Only upon HIS RESURRECTION did the body have the head, who is Christ !

Colossians 1:18 KJV

“And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”

 

[Grailhunter]

For you to be a historian, you did not note the wars and conflicts. When a village was attacked, who did the fighting? Men did, to protect women and children. When wars broke out who did the fighting? Men did. Men did what men did, and women did what women did. That still hasn't stopped. War broke out in Ukraine, who are fighting? That's right. Should men be ashamed to fight for his family and go to work to support them? Two working parents families started under President Clinton. A Christian man defends and protects his family, when did you find an example of the other way around. Still today, I've yet to meet a woman who doesn't want a man around to protect her.

Yes and as a theologian and historian I know that that was a male dominate society across the board....society and religions of God and Pagans. Many cultures treated women as property and second rate citizens.....that included the Jews and Christians. Polygamy and concubinage....where fathers sold their daughters into marriage and sold their daughters into concubinage as sex slaves. Jews and Christians had slaves.....Christ and the Apostles never spoke against slavery, polygamy, or concubinage and Christianity and the Jews practiced that for several centuries after the biblical era. That does not make it right or fair. Love God and love one another.....how does all that show love for one another?

Old habits die hard, but the Holy Spirit taught us that these things were wrong. No where in the Old or New Testament is there a requirement for a wedding ceremony to be married. It was the Holy Spirit that taught us that....the Protestants were the first to require a wedding ceremony to be married in the 1500's and the Catholic Church followed suite shortly after that.

Christianity has learned a lot from that time period and some of it was about what not to do. Condoned in the Old and New Testament but not tolerated in Christianity now. Christianity is a living, learning, dynamic religion and the understanding of right and wrong has never been more important than it is now, in a world full of evil that has issues and topics that could not be addressed in the that time period or by the scriptures. And degrading women into subjugation is wrong....I try to have patience with people but this is so basic, dirt level stupid, and heartless and Christianity still has a lot to learn about right from wrong....from fair and mistreatment.

Women should have all rights and privileges in Christianity.

 

[Grailhunter]

Women are allowed to do every "male" ministry" other than be a Pastor.
Apparently they can't be an Apostle, so, that one is also not available.
They also can't be a male, so that option is out, as well.
I hope you dont mind Grailhunter, but even tho you do, it wont matter to God.

And trust me when i tell you that God was not being a "Bigot" when He created them Male and Female.
He made the man first and that is SIGNIFICANT.
He was not being a bigot when He said the woman is made for the man, and the man is the head of the woman, in the Marriage.
He is not being a Bigot when He created Eve from one of Adam's "Ribs"

Its a very interesting that the man is supposed to love the woman as "Jesus loves the Church" and the woman is supposed to respect the man.
That is very interesting, as the NT could have said, "both should just love", but it doesn't.
I hope that does not upset you, Grailhunter.

God is not being a bigot when He made Jesus (and not Eve or Mary) the Head of the "body of Christ".

See, God is a God of order and He has His perspective on that, and secular culture has no use for God or His Divine Order.
Many Christians are exactly the same in their thinking as the world system would dictate.

Again you are talking about a whole different time period with evils that were tolerated by Christianity.

So not a bigot....just the way it was.....again Christians had slaves for centuries and practiced polygamy and concubinage for centuries after the biblical era....so are you going to say that is right? How many wives are you going to own? Are you going to sell your daughters as sex slaves? Ya know, there is a market for that now. But now a days we call that human trafficking. How many slaves are you going to own? Are you going to let your daughter pick her husband.....the Catholic Church put an end to that in the 12th century....let them pick their own husbands. It still continues in different parts of the world and different religions, but that does not make it right.

Time for Christianity to understand the Spirit of Christ and consider right from wrong. Men and women, we are all Christians and equal in the eyes of Christ.

 

[Grailhunter]

And then when we get our New Testament, we find that Paul says.

"do we not have a right to lead about a Wife, as do Peter and some of the apostles"?

I Corinthians 9:5

This is the same Paul who told us its better not to marry, and that is because once you do it, then in come the kids, and the problems, and you dont have the time anymore to spend on GOD STUFF.

But, there is only one way to be that type of Eunuch.

You have to have the gift from God, of total self control over your sex drive.
Few have that gift.

Strangely enough to understand some of the details of the Bible you not only have to be a knowledgeable theologian but also a historian.

Eyes open and put your thinking cap on.

Would you say that today Christianity has a focus on the family?

So would you say that about the New Testament….and why not?

I would have liked it if the scriptures had more details and direction regarding male / female relationships and marriage and family, but that was not the focus then.

The wording was….the time is short….living in the last days…..they believed that Christ’s return would be soon….not thousands of years. There was a sense of urgency to save souls from Hell before Christ returned. Christ’s return could be at any moment.

And they could see the persecutions coming that envolved the worst evils that the world had ever known….It Super Bowl Weekend! Except the crowds were cheering as Christians were used for human torches to light the night…Christians tortured and slaughtered and killed, given to animals, eaten by animals! Who would want a wife and kids to go through that?

So no, marriage was not recommended….no focus on the family. And yes it was true that they were thinking that all attention should be on God… devotion to God and save as many souls they could until it all came to an end. Living “normal” lives was not on the agenda.

So recommending marriage and instruction on relationships was not a high priority considering the circumstances. But it did not end. And there is a lot of history regarding families in the era of the Catholic Church and the Protestant reform….which lead to the modern era where Christianity developed a focus on the family….Children allowed in church was a biggie. Now we want them in church. Marriage is encouraged, wedding ceremonies required.

A lot has changed we now know that slavery and polygamy, and concubinage is wrong. No matter what people like to say, Christianity is not and cannot be about Bible only….You are kidding yourself if you think so. The Holy Spirit has taught us a higher morality on some important issues. And just as important there is an understanding of morality so we can address modern issues.

 

[Behold]

I agree.
Christianity is a religion,

Christianity is Christ on the Cross offering this.

A.) 2 Corinthians 5:19

That is not a religion.
And will never be a religion.

What else?

Religion can't lead you to God.
Only Christ can lead you to God . John 14:6

Jesus isnt a religion., but He is CHRISTianity.
To Join Him spiritually, by being born again, is how you become a CHRISTian, and that is not a religion.