Tongues ( 'sign' gifts ) did/did not cease?

[MatthewG]

Also @amadeus the bible has nothing to with the nations today…

So no you cant change Amorite with American.

(Not to say you can not find similar patterns), however todays world seems like its getting better than worse.

Just a politcial jargon to keep masses on the edge of their seat for the last day and apocolypse to come about with plagues and terrors…

That was for Isreal. Which was done…. How ever many years from 70Ad to 2023Ad.

 

[ElieG12]

Religionists who act as if they have the same spiritual gifts as the first century do not represent the true manifestation of God's holy spirit.

Their supposedly spiritual displays are histrionic and overwhelming to look at, yelling abounds in those religious activities. The people who are supposedly acting by the spirit of God are people whose personal life is anything but Christian and their Biblical teachings are twisted. These representations are designed to scare those present and are usually accompanied by a request for money.

1 Cor. 15:33 says "God is a God not of disorder but of peace".

2 Cor. 2:17 We are, for we are not peddlers of the word of God as many men are, but we speak in all sincerity as sent from God, yes, in the sight of God and in company with Christ.

If you have ever seen a demonic séance up close or from a distance, you will realize that these religious manifestations are no different. Its source is not the holy spirit of God.

 

[amadeus]

It wasn't a purpose AT ALL!

Do you see then the difficulty of even communicating here due to semantics?

 

[MatthewG]

Do you see then the difficulty of even communicating here due to semantics?
View attachment 34716

Hello John,

All of us have biases and some lean on confirmation biases which could be true or false claims; perhaps it was just a hallucination… but ya cant really judge them.

 

[MatthewG]

Religionists who act as if they have the same spiritual gifts as the first century do not represent the true manifestation of God's holy spirit.

Their supposedly spiritual displays are histrionic and overwhelming to look at, yelling abounds in those religious activities. The people who are supposedly acting by the spirit of God are people whose personal life is anything but Christian and their Biblical teachings are twisted. These representations are designed to scare those present and are usually accompanied by a request for money.

Do you think teachings like this hinder the maturity and growth of Christians ?

1 Cor. 15:33 says "God is a God not of disorder but of peace".

2 Cor. 2:17 We are, for we are not peddlers of the word of God as many men are, but we speak in all sincerity as sent from God, yes, in the sight of God and in company with Christ.

If you have ever seen a demonic séance up close or from a distance, you will realize that these religious manifestations are no different. Its source is not the holy spirit of God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Was that God's only purpose? Was it His first purpose? Consider that God knew all of His purposes at once. What would be first for Him?

For me it is not such a "status symbol" although in actions portrayed it certainly seems to be to some people. Unfortunately, some teachers teach it effectively as you suggest. They are likely not the only ones teaching error, are they? Do they realize any error? I leave that in God's hands as the only able to judge all things rightly.

I believe in truth. A verse with ONE Author cannot have TWO meanings.

 

[amadeus]

I do not think that is an equal comparison. Teh Parables were spoken to hide th etruth from the masses,

Were they not also spoken to the disciples for them to understand Jesus' message? He could have remained silent as he did at the right times, but he spoke because it was time to speak... but who was supposed to hear and understand His message?

while tongues was for the spreading of the gospel to other languages, or in a "prayer tongue", to edify the individual believer so that they may edify the church.

Did not Jesus speak His parables to edify those who were give understanding?

 

[amadeus]

Also @amadeus the bible has nothing to with the nations today…

So no you cant change Amorite with American.

Just a politcial jargon to keep masses on the edge of their seat for the last day and apocolypse to come about with plagues and terrors…

That was for Isreal. Which was done…. How ever many years from 70Ad to 2023Ad.

I might write a book to explain my position on what you have said, but I won't. God sees our differences and if either you or I are wrong, who but God can give a real increase? Do not stop growing toward Him, my friend.

 

[MatthewG]

As long as you can love me that is great.
If you hate me thats a different story.
Grateful for the Spirit that God provides, that is the increase needed; love, knowledge, understanding, compassion, freedom, @amadeus.

 

[amadeus]

I believe in truth. A verse with ONE Author cannot have TWO meanings.

Not even if God wanted to give it two meanings?

 

[amadeus]

Also @amadeus the bible has nothing to with the nations today…

So no you cant change Amorite with American.

(Not to say you can not find similar patterns), however todays world seems like its getting better than worse.

Just a politcial jargon to keep masses on the edge of their seat for the last day and apocolypse to come about with plagues and terrors…

That was for Isreal. Which was done…. How ever many years from 70Ad to 2023Ad.

Pr 21:2

Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

 

[Behold]

BOTH the speakers and the hearers who all loved God received the Holy Spirit. They were all Jews

The Apostles had already received the Holy Spirit in John 20:22 when Jesus gave it to them.
That was before Pentecost.

What they received at Pentecost was the anointing or the empowering for the ministry.
Specifically what the Apostles received were the "signs of an Apostle", 2 Corinthians 12:11

The 120 disciples spoke in tongues

But that is not the "Gift of Tongues".

the 3000 devout Jews came to Christ that day because of the gift of interpretation of tongues.

The reason that the Jews, 3000, came to Jesus is because Peter was preaching for them to trust in Christ.

They asked Him.. ."what must we do, what can we do"/.

He told them.. "Repent".

This means, turn from unbelief to faith in Jesus.
They did.
= "faith is counted as righteousness"

So, you have "tongues are for a sign, and signs are for the Jews".
This was a part of what was going on, that day.
This does not happen now, in that way, unless you have a room full of Jews and a Jewish Apostle leading them to Jesus.

Have you been there lately?
Come to Israel and you can find that happening, but its not happening in a gentile church......like that.

So, the Gift of Tongues, is what Peter was doing for those Jews.. = "we hear him in our Language".

No interpretation needed when you can HEAR it in your own Language.
See that?

The "prayer language" that is confusingly taught by many pentecostal denoms, whereby they confuse "prayer language". .. (self edification), "groanings that can't be uttered" with the "gift of a foreign language" = "gift of Tongues". that Preacher needs to have right then, (Peter) to speak to people who can't understand his language...

See that mess?
That is the confusion you find in American Churches regarding a wrong understanding of the "GIFT.... of tongues".
This is not the "prayer language that happens during the baptism with the Spirit" that they teach.

 

[amadeus]

Hello John,

All of us have biases and some lean on confirmation biases which could be true or false claims; perhaps it was just a hallucination… but ya cant really judge them.

Even so, my friend!

We may disagree and even directly express our disagreement, but final judgement is not ours. What does Jesus really mean with the following words?

Mt 7:1	Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mt 7:2	For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

I believe that the following words of Jeremiah still apply to men today:

Jer 10:23

O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Any time a man, any man [including me] is not directed by the Holy Spirit, is he not walking blind and heading for a ditch?

Lu 6:39

And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

 

[Bob Estey]

The Holy Spirit does not contradict Scripture. Why don't you know that?

Are you denying that during the Pentecost, men preached the gospel to other men in different languages - in tongues? It's in the Bible.

 

[MatthewG]

Even so, my friend!

We may disagree and even directly express our disagreement, but final judgement is not ours. What does Jesus really mean with the following words?

Mt 7:1	Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mt 7:2	For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

I believe that the following words of Jeremiah still apply to men today:

Jer 10:23

O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Any time a man, any man [including me] is not directed by the Holy Spirit, is he not walking blind and heading for a ditch?

Lu 6:39

And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

John,

To be honest before God is to be real and say one always dont follow the spirit 100% of the time, its when one submits and allows God to work in and through them the spirit comes through but the flesh fights against it and fails winning over the spirit, sometimes the spirit comes through more than the flesh.

Some people disqualify Jesus words of not judging others. And instead indeed do Judge them.

At the end of the day Believers who know they arent suppose to judge and do its between them and God. Somewhere James writes about to humble oneself before God, and he will lift you up, also to pray and not doubt.


How many prayers been sent out and people doubt? Or how many times has prayers been for selfish motives? Or how many times has a false teacher tricked masses of people?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The Apostles had already received the Holy Spirit in John 20:22 when Jesus gave it to them.
That was before Pentecost.

What they received at Pentecost was the anointing or the empowering for the ministry.
Specifically what the Apostles received were the "signs of an Apostle", 2 Corinthians 12:11

I agree with you. It was the 120 who were speaking the sign of tongues from Mark 16:16-18 TO God in PRAISE. But the gift of interpretation can be given to anyone to draw them to Christ. I saw it happen just like this in Arizona. This was the 120s first filling, but the apostles second Acts 1:8 for POWER. The 120 received their second filling in Acts 4:29-31, 1 Corinthians 12

But that is not the "Gift of Tongues".

Right. There is the sign of tongues, and the gift of tongues because there are two major releases of power once you receive the Holy Spirit and are born again.

The reason that the Jews, 3000, came to Jesus is because Peter was preaching for them to trust in Christ.

They asked Him.. ."what must we do, what can we do"/.

He told them.. "Repent".

This means, turn from unbelief to faith in Jesus.
They did.
= "faith is counted as righteousness"

So, you have "tongues are for a sign, and signs are for the Jews".
This was a part of what was going on, that day.
This does not happen now, in that way, unless you have a room full of Jews and a Jewish Apostle leading them to Jesus.

Have you been there lately?
Come to Israel and you can find that happening, but its not happening in a gentile church......like that.

So, the Gift of Tongues, is what Peter was doing for those Jews.. = "we hear him in our Language".

No interpretation needed when you can HEAR it in your own Language.
See that?

The "prayer language" that is confusingly taught by many pentecostal denoms, whereby they confuse "prayer language". .. (self edification), "groanings that can't be uttered" with the "gift of a foreign language" = "gift of Tongues". that Preacher needs to have right then, (Peter) to speak to people who can't understand his language...

See that mess?
That is the confusion you find in American Churches regarding a wrong understanding of the "GIFT.... of tongues".
This is not the "prayer language that happens during the baptism with the Spirit" that they teach.

So, you have "tongues are for a sign, and signs are for the Jews".

I didn't mean that. At the time, the whole gospel was just for the Jews. That is why on the Day of Pentecost only the 3000 devout Jews were drawn by the gift of interpretation of tongues, and stayed to hear Peter's sermon, then repented and were baptized.

You said: So, the Gift of Tongues, is what Peter was doing for those Jews.. = "we hear him in our Language". Peter didn't give them the gift of tongues! The Holy Spirit gave the 120 the sign of tongues, and sovereignly gave the supernatural (not natural) gift of interpretation of tongues to the devout Jews. And where did you get the quote "we hear him in our language"? It should be "we hear THEM in our own language."

All the Romans or Gentiles heard was gibberish and they called them drunk.

 

[ElieG12]

In the post#252 there is a very pertinent biblical quote regarding the spiritual gifts that were only given to the original Christians, the apostles and elders, probably exclusively to the 120 who were gathered in Jerusalem and a few who received them by laying on of hands) in the first century:

2 Cor. 12:11 I have become unreasonable. You compelled me to, for I ought to have been recommended by you. For I did not prove to be inferior to your superfine apostles in a single thing, even if I am nothing. 12 Indeed, the signs of an apostle were produced among you with great endurance, and by signs and wonders and powerful works.

Other words of Paul add to that, like this one:

Rom. 15:18 For I will not presume to speak about anything except what Christ has done through me in order for the nations to be obedient, by my word and deed, 19 with the power of signs and wonders, with the power of God’s spirit, so that from Jerusalem and in a circuit as far as Il·lyrʹi·cum I have thoroughly preached the good news about the Christ.

... Which reminds us of why Jesus could perform mighty works:

Acts 10:37 You know the subject that was talked about throughout all Ju·deʹa, starting from Galʹi·lee after the baptism that John preached: 38 about Jesus who was from Nazʹa·reth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the Devil, because God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all the things he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem (...)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Are you denying that during the Pentecost, men preached the gospel to other men in different languages - in tongues? It's in the Bible.

Of course I am. I don't lie! And I can understand what is being said, by how they wrote it. How do you explain that each man heard all of them speaking his own language. You are just not reading it correctly. You are coming at it with a preconceived belief and can't see that each person heard all of them speaking in only his language. And the next man of a different language heard all of them speaking in only his language, etc.

Bob, IT WAS SUPERNATURAL HEARING!!!

"everyone heard THEM speak in his own language."

2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

 

[Behold]

. This was the 120s first filling, but the apostles second Acts 1:8 for POWER. The 120 received their second filling in Acts 4:29-31,l (not natural) gift of interpretation of tongues to the devout Jews

First filling, 2nd filling, 234th filling, ...

is all the concept of the pentecostal movement, and is not scriptural.
Some, many, are born again, and never receive a prayer language.
You can go right now to Acts 8, and read the case of the Eunuch, who was born again, and he never spoke in any tongue.
Did He forget?
No He didnt., Its just a case of what happened to Him.
Some people completely change when they are saved.. They went to church that morning, lost, smoking a cigarette.
They left the alter that morning born again, threw the cigarettes away, and a 40 yr habit never came back.
Some are still smoking, and that is just before they go to the Pulpit to preach.
I can also take you to any NT, and show you that Jesus never spoke in Tongues.

So, lets just get away from this cultic, rabbit trail, newbie believer stuff, ...... that has some people chasing "tongues", for 50 yrs, while wondering why they can't do it.

Let me tell you this, on my way out of this discussion....
I was in the USA, in a Assembly of God Church, some years ago. and i watched some of the Pastor's staff take about 10 kids into a back room, shut the door, and say..>"Now, we are going to get you started with tongues........and what i want you to do is just start with any sound you want to make and just continue it, and just let the spirit take you over, and it'll happen, now lets starts with ......".

Uh huh.
Sure it will.
The Devil will give you a gift and you'll think God caused it.
The Devil can produce signs and wonders also, and so can his people.
The Anti-Christ will be performing some good ones, and deceive many with these "signs and powers".
So, its best to keep the main thing the main thing, and chasing "gifts" and "trying to intepret" isn't it.

Ive been in Charismatic-Pentecostal services, where they had this one woman, who would come just to give us her prayer language, at the same time, every Sunday.....like it was God's mission for her to fake this mess.
We could tell her show was about to start... as it got quiet, and then she would begin..

"hosta la shundai, hosta la shundai, hosta la shundai....as she would speak this faster and faster, her voice getting higher and higher (for effect)..........and for 2 mins, it was that over and over.
= What a Godless mess.

So, am i denying a prayer language?
Am i deny the "gift of tongues".

A.) No, im not, as i know people who have a prayer language. And i know people who fake them and other things as well.

Im denying = FAKE, and these situations are deep fake.......deep.... fake.

The "pentecostal" movement will tell you the lie that if you "didnt speak in tongues" you didnt get filled with the Spirit., = you are not born again yet.
So, lets just get away from that carnal nonsense, as it does nothing for anyone here, who would read about that stuff, except deepen their confusion.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Right. There is the sign of tongues, and the gift of tongues because there are two major releases of power once you receive the Holy Spirit and are born again.

@Behold

But NEITHER the sign nor the gift of tongues can be understood by man. 1 Corinthians 14:2 is true of both. Only the direction is different.

SIGN: TO God
GIFT: FROM God, and needs the supernatural gift of interpretation.

Our prayers do not need to be interpreted, but a person with the gift may be able to interpret them if the Spirit allows.