Does the bible prohibit a woman from being a "pastor"?

[101G]

Hi dragonfly,

Good point, and two, I guess only the males will be cast into hell, also. (smile).

now we can see the ignorance of men doctrine.

stay blessed,

Love and Peace
101G

 

[HammerStone]

I don't know that this is a clear cut issue, because the entire anti-woman-elder/teacher/etc. is all predicated off of a single passage.

I Timothy 2:12, Paul uses a word one time - authenteō. We do not know that meaning of that word with certainty. Honestly, if you go back and read the passage, the subject (found in chapter 1), is all about teaching the right stuff:

I Timothy 1:3-7
As I urged you [Timothy] when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith.

The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion, desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.

Clearly there was a problem with this being done.

Why did Paul simply not use one of the other common and numerous words for teaching? For instance, there is a specific word for teaching doctrine. Is it not out of the realm of possibility that a word for which we have no other Biblical reference might actually mean something other than just simply teach?

It seems to me, the epistle to Timothy was addressing a specific circumstance, and the word choice would hint that there was a specific detail that Paul had in mind. The word used for woman also commonly means wife - I don't think it's a crazy extra-Biblical assertion to make the case that this is a specific circumstance. Word choice opens that possibility.

Personally, I think Paul was addressing an instance where the wife of a teacher/preacher was becoming quite the center of attention. She would have been dressing in a showy manner (I Timothy 2:9) - dressing up as some type of quasi-priestess it would seem. We've all seen the TV preachers - I shouldn't need to say anymore than that. On top of that, she was a gossip and devoted to endless speculation (so-and-so is descended from such-and-such, can you believe that!?) that probably placed her above her husband's work. From the details in chp 1, I think she and her group probably taught about someone's personal family history and advocated some type of adherance to the law.

Most posts here come from a watered-down gospel. Aren't we supposed to emulate Christ ? Isn't Christ the Bridegroom of His Church.? How can a woman marry another woman, if Christ, a man, is the Bridegroom of His Church, are you saying that His Church is masculine? Jesus ,to make sure His work would be continued, established the "priesthood '' ---- " On behalf of Christ, therefore, we are acting as ambassadors, God, as it were, appealing through us " [ 2 Cor.5:20 ]. also [ Heb. 5:1].

Actually, that's the worst argument you can make on this - by that logic women can't be Christians. :unsure:

 

[101G]

the bible say, Ephesians 2:20 "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone". now the prophets and the Apostle say the same thing, all men, including MEN and WOME, Joel said it , Paul Said it, and the Apostle Peter said it, scripture, Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. question, is God only calling men?, NO, he is calling men and women. I don't know what bible you're reading, Children are males and females, and the promise is for them also. Joel the prophet said the gift is for your sons and daughters. so based on the Prophets and the apostle, who are sent from God, the Gifts is for both. God is no respecter of persons. see, I read the bible, and I obey, what about you?.

 

[IanLC]

I believe God calls whom He calls. I believe women can preach, exhort, prophesy, and perform ministerial duties. Now women in the role of a pastor as I have stated before I do not know even though my own pastor is a woman. Women should though as with all people make sure their own houses are in order and hearts are right before they take on any ministerial role. I believe the question should be today is "What do we do with women pastors today?" because it is a fact there are women who are pastoring! As a man and a licensed minister I have to remember that God commands me to submit to godly leadership over me exp. my pastor regardless of male or female!

 

[dragonfly]

Hi HammerStone,

I Timothy 2:12, Paul uses a word one time - authenteō.

I've looked at a couple of Greek renderings, and they both offer didasko. Where did you find authenteo, please?

 

[neophyte]

The reason that women are not to be ordained is because they are not men. Sounds politically incorrect, doesn’t it? But the fact is that God created men to be men and women to be women. When God chose to incarnate, he did not just choose to become a human being; he chose to become a man. Just as he chose to incarnate into a specific time, place, people, family, and woman, so he chose to become a specific human being, the man Christ Jesus (1 Tim. 2:5). Thus, those human beings who serve as priests in the person of Christ are men and not women.
This shocking particularity of God is not limited to choosing men to become priests. To demonstrate this to proponents of women’s ordination, you might turn the question around and ask them what it is about men that makes them unfit to bear children. Surely a man is just as physically strong as a woman and psychologically and emotionally capable of the demands of giving birth. Surely he is not inferior to a woman. Isn’t it unfair to men that only women can have babies?
This line of logic descends into absurdity, because women having children is a natural fact of life, something easily seen and understood. To shake one’s fist at the heavens and demand equal rights for men to give birth is to rail against the natural order. At that point you can establish that men being priests is a supernatural fact of life, and to object to it is to object to the supernatural order. The fact that the supernatural order cannot be seen and is not as easily understood as the natural order does not mean that the supernatural order does not exist.

Answered by a woman, Michelle Arnold staff member of Catholic Answers.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi neophyte,

It's only a problem that the Catholic Church does not accept women priests if it's a problem to God.

As long as God has His true worshippers - men and women and children - He will be happy.

 

[neophyte]

Hi neophyte,

It's only a problem that the Catholic Church does not accept women priests if it's a problem to God.

As long as God has His true worshippers - men and women and children - He will be happy.

Why is it a problem with you in that you refuse to believe in Jesus with His "promise" of always protecting the Teaching Doctrine of His One Church in [ Matt. 16: 16-18 ] His one and only Church was founded on His chosen apostles.
The only Church that can trace itself directly back two-thousand years is His Catholic Church and later the Orthodox Church. One from the apostle Peter and the other from the apostle Andrew. Any Christian that is a member of either of those two Apostolic Churches are true believers , but of course their are others who want to believe that they too are true believers , maybe they do believe, but still lack the Fullness of the Christian Faith, there are many calling themselves "true believers," but not all have the" Full Teachings" of Christ's One True Church.

 

[epouraniois]

Hello everyone, I believe the NT clearly has women ministers, simply look at the ones Paul speaks of as an example.

 

[neophyte]

Hello everyone, I believe the NT clearly has women ministers, simply look at the ones Paul speaks of as an example.

Hello everyone, I believe the NT clearly has Jesus never ordaining any woman minister / prespyter/ priest . Jesus was the Founder of both His Christian religion and His Church not St.Paul.

 

[epouraniois]

Hello everyone, I believe the NT clearly has Jesus never ordaining any woman minister / prespyter/ priest . Jesus was the Founder of both His Christian religion and His Church not St.Paul.

Hmmm, if you look at the small words, 'BUT NOW', you can see many changes where at one point one thing is happening or instructed, but then because of some inequity or another, but now something else is happening or instructed. For example, at one point the Lord instructed His disciples to go forth thinking nothing of what was in their purse or on their feet, and not take a sword; wherein a short space of a few chapters later we find He instructed these same disciples, saying, "But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a scrip; and he that hath not, let him sell his coat, and buy a sword.

How often we see believers following what once was, and ignoring further instructions without realizing it. So we have the record, do we believe all of it, or just some of it. It's a personal question we should each ask ourselves, it needs no responce here.

 

[mandygirl]

women as pastors goes completely against what God said. we should look good and be in Church listeningg.... dont be fooled.

 

[epouraniois]

women as pastors goes completely against what God said. we should look good and be in Church listeningg.... dont be fooled.

Can you be more specific?

And permit me to inquire as to the following:
Is not ALL OF SCRIPTURE God-Breathed?
Hebrews, chapter one, verse one, declares that God speaks at different times to different people with different messages.
Can we not believe this to be true?

 

[aspen]

No.

 

[mandygirl]

Can you be more specific?

And permit me to inquire as to the following:
Is not ALL OF SCRIPTURE God-Breathed?
Hebrews, chapter one, verse one, declares that God speaks at different times to different people with different messages.
Can we not believe this to be true?

i posted the scriptures, not sure if im allowed to double post so youl have t2 search tru my post.

i probaby am more conservative fundamentalist church than others so the ideas have been hammered in since i was 4 yrs old but you wouldnt see me speaking in church, thhats just me, some of my girlfriends do and some dont. reaally i am more concerned about what im gonna wear to church than what im gonna say on a sunday morning lol. hugs,mandy

 

[epouraniois]

i posted the scriptures, not sure if im allowed to double post so youl have t2 search tru my post.

i probaby am more conservative fundamentalist church than others so the ideas have been hammered in since i was 4 yrs old but you wouldnt see me speaking in church, thhats just me, some of my girlfriends do and some dont. reaally i am more concerned about what im gonna wear to church than what im gonna say on a sunday morning lol. hugs,mandy

Perhaps you would post a link to your quotes then? Thanks in advance.

 

[HammerStone]

dragonfly, you're right, I overlooked the first part, didaskō is there. (That's what I get for making a quick post on break.)

However, authenteō is there is the second half (assume authority, usurp as the NIV renders). It weakens my assertions a bit, but again it's still interesting because other women had forms of authority in the Bible. II Timothy 1:5 attributes Timothy's faith to his mother and grandmother, while Acts 16:1-3 seems to state his father was a Greek and without faith.

 

[101G]

Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus.

women can only be nurses, but not doctors?, or airline stewardess, but not pilots?. but God can used an (ass) to save Balaam, (a man), life, and the ass was a she ass. Numbers 22:21 "And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab. 22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him. 23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way. 24 But the angel of the LORD stood in a path of the vineyards, a wall being on this side, and a wall on that side. 25 And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall: and he smote her again. 26 And the angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left. 27 And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff. 28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? 29 And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee. 30 And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay. 31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face. 32 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me: 33 And the ass saw me, and turned from me these three times: unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and saved her alive. 34 And Balaam said unto the angel of the LORD, I have sinned; for I knew not that thou stoodest in the way against me: now therefore, if it displease thee, I will get me back again. 35 And the angel of the LORD said unto Balaam, Go with the men: but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.


until the Lord open some eyes, they will me the death angel. I wonder sometime, just how many souls could have been save by the preaching and teaching of women ministers. but just like the Gospel, 1 Corinthians 1:21 "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe".

and for those who are so wise, yes the ass spoke with a man voice. as the way it is always. but let me shake you with somrthing. if anyone who is a preacher, teacher, or prophet, it is not you who speak, but the LORD in us. for the man or the woman is the preacher, or prophet, or pastor, but what or who is in them is
prophecy for it is not you who speak but the Spirit min us.

for the rest, who don't believe, taking a cue from the Balaam story, "the foolishness of preaching will make a (ass) out of you".

Love and Peace
101G

 

[neophyte]

Jesus never ordained any woman or women.And those that He ordained also never ordained any women and those that they ordained never ordained any women , and so on and so forth, up until mere men invented their own version of many different forms of christianity.see { John 17: 20-21 ]

 

[lawrance]

Any woman Rabbi ?
The OT is a blueprint of the NT.
It's the same religion to ? but just for some got lost due to being mislead by the worldly works of Satan.