Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?

[brightfame52]

Now although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience in which he describes it as "obeyed the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16) the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.

Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith in Romans 1:5. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. Obedience that is produced out of faith is works.

Im speaking about the condition for salvation, thats fulfilled by the obedience of one, not two or three etc Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Read the title of the thread friend.

 

[mailmandan]

Im speaking about the condition for salvation, thats fulfilled by the obedience of one, not two or three etc Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Read the title of the thread friend.

My post is relevant to the title of the thread. Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of his obedience (finished work of redemption - Romans 3:24-28) and not based on the merits of our obedience/works. (Romans 4:5-6)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What you haven't said is how Jesus made me righteous. Do you even know?

John 3: 0 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In the above, the blue is what God did to save mankind

The green is what we must do to be saved

and the red is what is done to remain lost.

John shows us what is meant by the green in the very first chapter of his gospel.

John 1: 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

its not a work to receive a gift. But it does take faith to receive the gift. You will not receive something you do not trust. John also tells us why those who do not receive him fail to receive him in unbelief.

John 3: 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.


thats why John is so amazing. He brings to truth of the gospel to light in such a meaningful pure way

 

[1stCenturyLady]

By His death, His obedience, thats how many are made righteous, its right there in the verse, duh Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

So Jesus made Hitler righteous. Nice to know. Duh yourself.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Im not here to talk about my experiences, thats not what makes a person righteous, according to Rom 5:19 what makes many righteous ?

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Here is another scripture you may ponder Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

How did this righteous servant Justify many ?

You tell me. You're the one that doesn't know.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

John 3: 0 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

In the above, the blue is what God did to save mankind

The green is what we must do to be saved

and the red is what is done to remain lost.

John shows us what is meant by the green in the very first chapter of his gospel.

John 1: 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

its not a work to receive a gift. But it does take faith to receive the gift. You will not receive something you do not trust. John also tells us why those who do not receive him fail to receive him in unbelief.

John 3: 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.


thats why John is so amazing. He brings to truth of the gospel to light in such a meaningful pure way

What constitutes belief? Do you have evidence that you believe? @brightfame52 says he doesn't need any.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What constitutes belief? Do you have evidence that you believe? @brightfame52 says he doesn't need any.

what proof do I need?

1. Am I trusting what God said about me (I am a sinner and as such am worthy of damnation. and I can not do anything to help myself )

Do I trust God in his word that based on his death, he will save me if I receive his gift of salvation.

or

2 do I not believe I am totally sinful. thus i really do not need God

or

3. do I think yes, Jesus died for me, but he will not just save me, I have to work to help him save me by doing some type of religious work (ie baptism, church membership, talking in tongues etc etc) or being morally obedient?

if the answer is not one. do you really have faith in God. Or are you in pride, rejecting the one and only way to heaven, and trying to earn it your own way

 

[brightfame52]

My post is relevant to the title of the thread. Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of his obedience (finished work of redemption - Romans 3:24-28) and not based on the merits of our obedience/works. (Romans 4:5-6)

Christ saved His people from His One act of obedience, apart from any obedience of the ones saved, again Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Faith is the fruit of Christs Obedience.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Christ saved His people from His One act of obedience, apart from any obedience of the ones saved, again Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Faith is the fruit of Christs Obedience.

the person must still chose to trust or not trust..

Just like the children of Israel did when the snakes killed many of them because they refused to look up at the serpent moses hung

 

[brightfame52]

So Jesus made Hitler righteous. Nice to know. Duh yourself.

Christ made anyone He died for righteous, duh ! Anyone not made righteous, obviously He didn't die for them

 

[brightfame52]

the person must still chose to trust or not trust..

Just like the children of Israel did when the snakes killed many of them because they refused to look up at the serpent moses hung

False, Faith believing is the fruit of Christs One obedience, it made them righteous, both legally and spiritually. When Christ makes one righteous they become a new creation.

 

[brightfame52]

You tell me. You're the one that doesn't know.

Why dont you try reading the verse.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

False,

your the one who has it wrong my friend

Faith believing is the fruit of Christs One obedience, it made them righteous, both legally and spiritually. When Christ makes one righteous they become a new creation.

yes it is the fruit of Christ no one comes unless God draws them.

But the person still must make a decision.

Moses raised the serpent. anyone there could have looked up in faith and lived. Its not Gods fault many of them refused in unbelief and died..

and it was nto gods work that the people chose to trust God and look up to that serpent

 

[brightfame52]

your the one who has it wrong my friend

yes it is the fruit of Christ no one comes unless God draws them.

But the person still must make a decision.

Moses raised the serpent. anyone there could have looked up in faith and lived. Its not Gods fault many of them refused in unbelief and died..

and it was nto gods work that the people chose to trust God and look up to that serpent

God made the decision to save whom He wills, All salvation was conditioned on One Mans Obedience, and His Obedience made all for whom He died righteous, no ones else obedience was relevant or needed. Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

what proof do I need?

1. Am I trusting what God said about me (I am a sinner and as such am worthy of damnation. and I can not do anything to help myself )

Do I trust God in his word that based on his death, he will save me if I receive his gift of salvation.

or

2 do I not believe I am totally sinful. thus i really do not need God

or

3. do I think yes, Jesus died for me, but he will not just save me, I have to work to help him save me by doing some type of religious work (ie baptism, church membership, talking in tongues etc etc) or being morally obedient?

if the answer is not one. do you really have faith in God. Or are you in pride, rejecting the one and only way to heaven, and trying to earn it your own way

You've been taught a heresy. So has @brightfame52 if you two still have the desire to sin.

A heresy is a doctrine of demons that teaches the OPPOSITE of what Jesus came to do and what He did.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You've been taught a heresy. So has @brightfame52 if you two still have the desire to sin.

So you know me.. Who made you God?

I have no desire to sin.. Thats why my trust is in God. Because I know I will never meet Gods standard. and I must rely on him

A heresy is a doctrine of demons that teaches the OPPOSITE of what Jesus came to do and what He did.

You teach heresy then, You teach you do not need God. you can save yourself.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God made the decision to save whom He wills, All salvation was conditioned on One Mans Obedience, and His Obedience made all for whom He died righteous, no ones else obedience was relevant or needed. Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

He did

in John 6 Jesus said it is the will of the father that whoever sees and believed will be saved.

In John 3 he said we must look to christ as they did the serpent. and if we do we will be saved.

the same in john 4 and 5.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So you know me.. Who made you God?

I have no desire to sin.. Thats why my trust is in God. Because I know I will never meet Gods standard. and I must rely on him

You teach heresy then, You teach you do not need God. you can save yourself.

Okay, so you have no desire to sin. So I assume if you have no desire to sin then you don't sin. So tell me why you call yourself a sinner if you don't sin? That's a lie against Jesus cleansing your nature of all desire to sin! That is what is heretical. Not that Jesus took away your sin, but that you won't admit it! Don't you know that you can now call yourself a child of God. Read 1 John 3:1-6 You can stop lying by just telling the truth.

I never said I don't need God. That's a lie and a sin. He's my best friend.

If you have a habit of lying, maybe Jesus never did take away your desire to sin. Maybe you DO have a desire to lie your head off.

 

[brightfame52]

He did

in John 6 Jesus said it is the will of the father that whoever sees and believed will be saved.

In John 3 he said we must look to christ as they did the serpent. and if we do we will be saved.

the same in john 4 and 5.

Seeing and believing on the Son for all Salvation was conditioned on and caused by the Obedience of One Jesus Christ Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Seeing and believing on Jesus is what occurs after Christ makes one righteous by His Obedience.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Seeing and believing on the Son for all Salvation was conditioned on and caused by the Obedience of One Jesus Christ Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Seeing and believing on Jesus is what occurs after Christ makes one righteous by His Obedience.

Hitler was a Catholic and believed in Jesus. What makes your belief different than his?