Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?

[brightfame52]

aunty jane

What I understand is that the obedience of the Christ made the way for the forgiveness of our sins.

Thats error, the obedience of Christ makes people righteous which includes forgiveness of sins as well

Your emphasis sounds like an excuse to keep on sinning,

Thats because you think carnally and lack understanding spiritually on what Christs obedience accomplished.

 

[brightfame52]

I would say yes. But Jesus makes it easy. He writes His commandments on our conscience. All you have to do is obey your conscience. I've done that all my life, even when I wasn't saved. But when I was finally saved, He wrote the commandments I was breaking on my conscience so I could keep those too, and actually took away the desire to commit them. His yoke is easy and His burden is light.

Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

It appears you condition salvation on your work or action, that's a repudiation of the truth that salvation is conditioned upon the one obedience of Jesus Christ Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[Aunty Jane]

aunty jane

Thats error, the obedience of Christ makes people righteous which includes forgiveness of sins as well

The obedience of the Christ makes no one righteous who is intent on sinning as if it doesn’t offend God.
We have choices and we can choose not to sin......we know what offends God so why would we deliberately do what he tells us not to do.....? That is disobedience.

What does the apostle Paul tell us?
“9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.”
Do you see any justification for deliberate sin in these words? He says “that is what some of you WERE”....not ARE. Being “washed clean” means leaving sin behind.

Thats because you think carnally and lack understanding spiritually on what Christs obedience accomplished.

Or could it be that you don’t understand why obedience is so important......?
Disobedience is what got us into this mess......and a sinful nature was not to blame....self interest was.
Anything one who thinks that sinning is justifiable, is fooling themselves. OSAS is not biblical.....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Isnt Faith obedience Rom 1626

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Acts 6:7

And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

we are saved by grace through faith, not of works

but as many who have received him, to them he gave the right to become children of God.

 

[brightfame52]

aunty jane

The obedience of the Christ makes no one righteous

Thats unbelief, the obedience of Christ makes them righteous whom He died for Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

who is intent on sinning as if it doesn’t offend God.

Those who Christ obeyed for are by His Obedience made righteous even while they are ungodly, though sooner or later they shall be converted unto obedience.

 

[brightfame52]

we are saved by grace through faith, not of works

but as many who have received him, to them he gave the right to become children of God.

We are saved by grace through faith, but no one is saved by their obedience/faith, they are saved by Christs obedience alone.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What does being "born again" mean to you? It's interesting that I can ask different Christians this question and get a variety of answers, but they never seem to be specific.
What are Christians being "saved" from?

The word of interest there is "abides" which in Greek is "menō" and is translated in other verses as "stays" "remains" or "lives".
"Abides" is not a modern English word, and so people can get the wrong idea about what this verse is saying.....
So in light of the Bible's teachings about God's kingdom, and those who are chosen for a heavenly role there, if you translate it with these other words, there is an interesting difference...
"Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God remains forever."
"Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God lives forever."
"Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God stays forever."

The world under satan's rulership (1 John 5:19) is what is "passing away" and all that the devil has wrought here will be undone.
"The one who practices sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up the works of the Devil." (1 John 3:8)

It is up to us to make it a practice NOT to sin deliberately.....those who make it a practice to sin, originate with the devil, and will suffer the same fate. Jesus came to break up his wicked works, so those who willfully practice sin will not be offered everlasting life. God has no use for willful sinners. He needs those who can do as they are told....to follow his laws and directions without question....following the example of Noah, Abraham, and Moses. Not a perfect man among them, but obedient from the heart.

He who practices sin has never seen or known God

He who has been born of God does not practice sin

I think John has it right.

it is not because we sin or do not sin, it is who has been born of God, who overcomes the world?

how do we overcome the world?


1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

how is one born of God?

See John 3.. Whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already because they have not believed

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are saved by grace through faith, but no one is saved by their obedience/faith, they are saved by Christs obedience alone.

Thats not true

As moses liften the serpent, so must the son of man be lifted up that whoever believes......

The people of Israel had to have faith to look at the serpent to be saved

we have to have faith to look to the cross.

God does not do that for us.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It appears you condition salvation on your work or action, that's a repudiation of the truth that salvation is conditioned upon the one obedience of Jesus Christ Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments. That means practice obedience.

brightfame, do you belong to a denomination, or some "ism" like Calvinism? It would really help me to know which one, because I knew some believed as you do but you're the first I've seen in a while. I would like to research it as I'm an author.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Thats because you think carnally and lack understanding spiritually on what Christs obedience accomplished.

I'd love to know what you think His obedience accomplished in us. Do we act any different?

 

[brightfame52]

Thats not true

As moses liften the serpent, so must the son of man be lifted up that whoever believes......

The people of Israel had to have faith to look at the serpent to be saved

we have to have faith to look to the cross.

God does not do that for us.

Yes it is true !

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments. That means practice obedience.

brightfame, do you belong to a denomination, or some "ism" like Calvinism? It would really help me to know which one, because I knew some believed as you do but you're the first I've seen in a while. I would like to research it as I'm an author.

So you dont believe that one is saved by the obedience of One Jesus Christ ? Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[brightfame52]

I'd love to know what you think His obedience accomplished in us. Do we act any different?

It accomplished all of Salvation, every aspect of it, now do you believe that ?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Thats unbelief, the obedience of Christ makes them righteous whom He died for Rom 5:19

You cut the quote to erase what I really said......selective editing is not the way to establish truth.
Jesus died for all but clearly not all are saved. Only those who become Christ’s disciples will be saved....but even then, simply claiming to BE a Christian does not make you one.

John 8:28-32....
28 So Jesus said “When you raise the Son of Man aloft, then you will find out that I am the one and am doing nothing of myself, but as the Father instructed me, so I speak. 29 And the one who sent me is with me; he does not leave me alone, because I always do what is pleasing to him.”

30 As he spoke these words many believed in him. 31 So Jesus said to the Jews that had believed him “If you remain in my words you are really disciples of mine 32 and shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Unless your “belief” has actions to back them up, your claims to be a follower of Christ have no substance.
“Faith without works is dead”. (James 2:26)

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

It seems to me that you are stuck on this one verse as though it embodies the whole Bible....there is a reason why scripture backs up other scripture.....one verse does not constitute a doctrine. Many verses contribute to a doctrine to support it and establish its truth. There are many verses that undermine the OSAS position.

Christ’s obedience forms the basis for our sins to be forgiven, but we have to understand that Jesus did not die to save those who have no respect for God’s laws. In order to become a Christian, we have to commit ourselves to emulating our teacher. We can never do so perfectly, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have to try to avoid sinning. If we fall down occasionally (as we all do as imperfect humans) and realise too late that we have sinned, then only genuine repentance will merit God’s forgiveness.

Those who Christ obeyed for are by His Obedience made righteous even while they are ungodly, though sooner or later they shall be converted unto obedience.

1 Peter 4:15-17.....
15 For let no one of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or a doer of any harm, or as an intruder into other people’s concerns; 16 but if it is as a Christian let him not be ashamed, but glorify God for that name— 17 because it is time for judgment to begin with the house of God; and if it begins first with you, what is to be the end of those who disobey God’s gospel?”

Suffering because you are a law breaker should bring a “Christian” shame....but suffering because you are standing for the truth, glorifies God.
Those who claim to be worshippers of God as disciples of Christ will be shocked when Jesus rejects them. Judgment starts with “the house of God”...with those who make empty claims of being Christ’s disciples but who continue to sin with implied impunity. (Matt 7:21-23)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So you dont believe that one is saved by the obedience of One Jesus Christ ? Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

What you haven't said is how Jesus made me righteous. Do you even know?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It accomplished all of Salvation, every aspect of it, now do you believe that ?

Yes, but I experienced what He did to me. Have you?

 

[brightfame52]

You cut the quote to erase what I really said......selective editing is not the way to establish truth.
Jesus died for all but clearly not all are saved. Only those who become Christ’s disciples will be saved....but even then, simply claiming to BE a Christian does not make you one.

John 8:28-32....
28 So Jesus said “When you raise the Son of Man aloft, then you will find out that I am the one and am doing nothing of myself, but as the Father instructed me, so I speak. 29 And the one who sent me is with me; he does not leave me alone, because I always do what is pleasing to him.”

30 As he spoke these words many believed in him. 31 So Jesus said to the Jews that had believed him “If you remain in my words you are really disciples of mine 32 and shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Unless your “belief” has actions to back them up, your claims to be a follower of Christ have no substance.
“Faith without works is dead”. (James 2:26)

It seems to me that you are stuck on this one verse as though it embodies the whole Bible....there is a reason why scripture backs up other scripture.....one verse does not constitute a doctrine. Many verses contribute to a doctrine to support it and establish its truth. There are many verses that undermine the OSAS position.

Christ’s obedience forms the basis for our sins to be forgiven, but we have to understand that Jesus did not die to save those who have no respect for God’s laws. In order to become a Christian, we have to commit ourselves to emulating our teacher. We can never do so perfectly, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have to try to avoid sinning. If we fall down occasionally (as we all do as imperfect humans) and realise too late that we have sinned, then only genuine repentance will merit God’s forgiveness.

1 Peter 4:15-17.....
15 For let no one of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or a doer of any harm, or as an intruder into other people’s concerns; 16 but if it is as a Christian let him not be ashamed, but glorify God for that name— 17 because it is time for judgment to begin with the house of God; and if it begins first with you, what is to be the end of those who disobey God’s gospel?”

Suffering because you are a law breaker should bring a “Christian” shame....but suffering because you are standing for the truth, glorifies God.
Those who claim to be worshippers of God as disciples of Christ will be shocked when Jesus rejects them. Judgment starts with “the house of God”...with those who make empty claims of being Christ’s disciples but who continue to sin with implied impunity. (Matt 7:21-23)

Again, you disbelieve the truth that by the obedience of One, many shall be made righteous, forgiven Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[brightfame52]

What you haven't said is how Jesus made me righteous. Do you even know?

By His death, His obedience, thats how many are made righteous, its right there in the verse, duh Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, but I experienced what He did to me. Have you?

Im not here to talk about my experiences, thats not what makes a person righteous, according to Rom 5:19 what makes many righteous ?

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Here is another scripture you may ponder Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

How did this righteous servant Justify many ?

 

[mailmandan]

Isn't Faith obedience Rom 1626

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Acts 6:7

And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

Now although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience in which he describes it as "obeyed the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16) the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.

Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith in Romans 1:5. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. Obedience that is produced out of faith is works.