Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?

[Nancy]

I continue to see a misunderstanding of "Law" as a concept in Christianity. Some Christians believe we are "under the 10 Commandments." Some believe we are under no principle of Law at all, since we are saved not by our own works, but by grace.

The truth be told, whatever Jesus said about Law while Jews were still under the Law of Moses pertained to that system, and not to the NT system. They had to keep the total body of the Law of Moses, temple, priest, and sacrifice, as well as food laws and the laws of Sabbath.

But today we are under the NT system, though that does not place us outside of Law. We are not told things by Jesus under the Law of Moses, but we are still under the commandments he gives us under the NT system.

What Law is that? We are told to abide in him, to carry out his requirement that we love God supremely and love others as ourselves. This is unadulterated Law, though it is not under the OT Law.

We are not saved by keeping Christ's commandments, but only by adhering to his requirement that we abide in him--both him and his Law. Without him, who is the essence of our atonement for sin, all the obedience in the world would be nil. But if we abide in him, we abide in his Law, as well. To choose him is to choose his righteousness.

Yes, amen to that. We are FREED from the law written on tablets of stone, as well as the rest which are many but, only for the Hebrew people, like the Levitical laws were only to distinguish God's chosen people from the gentile Nations.
Agreed, to do righteousness is simply to "do right". Abiding in Him, love God, and love others and if we follow those two, the rest of the Big 10 will naturally follow.
For myself, lately people in general are really rubbing me the wrong way and it's a horrible thing I know, yet I will NOT fake it to make it, as some say.
Thank God for my two sisters or I would have just this site as fellowship. Which is great yet, we all "need" other Christians in our lives. "Woe to that man who is alone when he falls"...

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes, amen to that. We are FREED from the law written on tablets of stone, as well as the rest which are many but, only for the Hebrew people, like the Levitical laws were only to distinguish God's chosen people from the gentile Nations.
Agreed, to do righteousness is simply to "do right". Abiding in Him, love God, and love others and if we follow those two, the rest of the Big 10 will naturally follow.
For myself, lately people in general are really rubbing me the wrong way and it's a horrible thing I know, yet I will NOT fake it to make it, as some say.
Thank God for my two sisters or I would have just this site as fellowship. Which is great yet, we all "need" other Christians in our lives. "Woe to that man who is alone when he falls"...

Yes, Christianity can be lonely, at times. We may even attend a big church, and have Christian friends, and feel lonely. In some ways God Himself wants to fill that loneliness. But God has made it so that we need others. Otherwise, we may not reach out to them when they may need God more than we do. Take care, sister.

 

[Nancy]

Yes, Christianity can be lonely, at times. We may even attend a big church, and have Christian friends, and feel lonely. In some ways God Himself wants to fill that loneliness. But God has made it so that we need others. Otherwise, we may not reach out to them when they may need God more than we do. Take care, sister.

Thank you Randy There is NO other way to fill that God shaped hole.

 

[Zao is life]

So then I can break all the Commandments as 'no man can keep it', as you say. I see a flaw in that...

1 John 3
23 And this is His commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

1 John 3
22 And whatever we ask, we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 And this is His commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

Where is that commandment mentioned above written in the 10 commandments that you say must be obeyed?

John 6
28 Then they said to Him, What shall we do that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent.

The people He was talking to did not believe in Jesus:

John 5
38 And you do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He has sent.

1 John 3
24 And he who keeps His commandment dwells in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He gave to us.

The fruit of the Spirit does not get produced through our obedience to the law or the 10 commandments. It's Christ's fruit, and only abiding in Him through faith in Him will bring forth His fruit through us. Without Him we can do nothing.

The law including the 10 commandments is the shadow and type of the real thing, and our obedience to the law and 10 commandments is not Christ's fruit - it is the "fruit" of OUR "righteousness".

Only Christ is righteous. The fruit of the Spirit fulfills the law and the 10 commandments.

1 John 3
23 And this is His commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

"For the priesthood being changed, there is of necessity a change made in the law also." Hebrews 7:12.

If you are walking by obedience to law and 10 commandments you are not walking entirely by faith in Christ. It's Christ's sacrifice + your works that you trust in.

Abide in the Vine through faith in Him and you will not produce the works of the flesh, instead, He will produce the fruit of the Spirit in and through your works. Obedience to the 10 commandments is not the fruit of the Spirit. It's your "fruit". But the fruit of the Spirit fulfills what the type and shadow contained in the law and 10 commandments points to.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: is obedience a 'condition' of salvation?

Is 'Grace a condition Of salvation'?:

"For By Grace Are ye Saved Through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is​

The Gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)​

Conclusion: "faith IS obedience" For God's Eternal Salvation, Because Of:

God's ALL-Sufficient BLOOD!

God Graciously Has All of This Pertaining To His Eternal Salvation:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Will any 'obey Him, IN faith' and receive the above? "Today Is The Day Of [ Eternal ] Salvation!"

Amen.

 

[brightfame52]

op: is obedience a 'condition' of salvation?

Is 'Grace a condition Of salvation'?:

"For By Grace Are ye Saved Through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is​

The Gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)​

Conclusion: "faith IS obedience" For God's Eternal Salvation, Because Of:

God's ALL-Sufficient BLOOD!

God Graciously Has All of This Pertaining To His Eternal Salvation:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Will any 'obey Him, IN faith' and receive the above? "Today Is The Day Of [ Eternal ] Salvation!"

Amen.

So you do believe mans obedience is a condition he meets before God saves him ? Is that fair to say ?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

How can one believe, except they obey?

Romans 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Matthew 5:14-16 KJV
A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Belief is obedience !

James 1:
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[brightfame52]

How can one believe, except they obey?

Romans 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Matthew 5:14-16 KJV
A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Belief is obedience !

James 1:
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

The point isnt if obeying is believing, but is obeying or believing a condition one must meet in order for God to save them.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So

So do you keep the 10 Commandments as Jesus asks of those that truly love Him?

Thank you for reactivating this thread as it raises some very important questions….

When Jesus addressed the man, telling him to keep the Commandments, he was a Jew, addressing another Jew, under law. All Jews were under law until the new covenant was inaugurated on the night of Jesus’ arrest and validated by his death and resurrection, fulfilling the law and ending it. (Col 2:13-14; Eph 2:14-15)

According to scripture in Jesus’ own words, the whole Law was based on two important principles….”Love of God” and “love of neighbor”. These principles would never disappear even when the Law was no longer binding on the followers of Jesus Christ.…

Matt 22:34-40…..
“34 After the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they came together in one group. 35 And one of them, versed in the Law, tested him by asking: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love the Lord your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

So these principle would continue to guide God’s worshippers, especially when Gentiles were accepted into the Christian congregation. No one could break God’s law without contravening one or both of these principles. No longer were these to be held to a written code, but by human conscience and a mind and heart educated in God’s thinking embodied in the teachings of his son.

What role does obedience play in the big picture? A bigger role than many imagine, especially when we go back to mankind’s beginnings. If the humans had simply obeyed God’s command back in the garden of Eden, we would never have had this life of sin and suffering, unleashed on us.

Many do not stop to think what would have resulted if the humans had refused to act on the devil’s lies…..why did God put us humans here on this earth in the first place? It is just one tiny planet in a rather insignificant galaxy, among billions in a vast universe…..so don’t we need to concentrate on what God’s first purpose was, and where mankind would be today if they had remained obedient?

Did God ever design humankind to die and go to heaven? According to Genesis, “the tree of life” was there to grant everlasting life to the mortal humans who were obedient regarding the other “tree”. As long as they respected the law of God, and obeyed him in spite of what the devil offered, everlasting life on earth was not only possible but guaranteed by God in the form of a “tree of life”.

We have to understand that free will was a gift in the beginning …..disobedience, turned it into a curse.

The value of obedience is therefore paramount.

 

[DJT_47]

Not a condition per se but an absolute necessity as a demonstration of your faith which leads to salvation. The conditions are.
1. Belief which encompasses faith
2. Confession of belief (Rom 10:9)
3. Repentance (Acts 2:38)
4. Baptism (Acts 2:38)

Belief and faith will create the desire and will within you to obey

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

If you believe, you'll obey and be baptized which will result in your salvation as implied by the above scripture. It also shows that non-belief will result in you doing nothing and therefore will suffer the consequence of your non-belief

 

[VictoryinJesus]

17 As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. 19 "You know the commandments, ' DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'" 20 And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up." 21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." 22 But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.

Get this post was from long ago. Love “looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said “One thing you lack, go sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; come, follow Me.”
Love that part because I’ve heard so often this passage used as if Jesus scolded him and moved on. Love that the word tells us “Jesus felt a love for him” who was rich in this world yet poor towards God. Isn’t this what Jesus is instructing the man

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, (Come, follow Me.) that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love(Jesus looking at him felt a love for him), I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Also Jesus told the man …about not trusting in uncertain riches…and laying up in store for themselves a good foundation (Christ) against the time to come , that they may lay hold on riches that do not fail which are the riches of the Spirit of God: that you bear Fruit unto Life. The fruit of the Spirit of God.

17 ¶ Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

And he went away saddened for he owned much property. But consider what property he owned for worldly sorrow works death, to be repented of. Godly sorrow leads to life, and is not to be repented. Consider owning much property in this world. And owning much property by inheritance. They look nothing alike to me no matter how much we try to make them the same “property” or “land” …what property.. land …is inherited by promise? I have an idea. I Hope to God I am right because to me it is extremely Hopeful.

23 And Jesus, looking around, * said to His disciples, "A How hard it will be for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!" 24 The disciples A were amazed at His words. But Jesus * answered again and said to them, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 26 They were even more astonished and said to Him, " Then who can be saved?" 27 Looking at them, Jesus said, "With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God."

Point I think is that it is not impossible for the rich man of this world to enter in …for he is poor towards God. Which to me makes Jesus Christ the example towards the poor which includes the man that said he lacked nothing but did know he was miserable, blind, and poor.

I have a different approach to the passage and Jesus was pointing out to the rich young ruler do you know who you are talking with ? Only God is good so why are you calling Me (a Teacher) good ?

Jesus point in His questioning of the ruler was rhetorical in nature. Do you know who you are calling good? Only God is good. He was saying to the ruler "Do you know who I Am and who you are speaking too? If you read on it becomes obvious for Jesus turned him away from gaining eternal life. He knew what was in his heart and keeping him away from the kingdom. Only God knows what is in mans heart and can allow a person into His Kingdom. Jesus was clearly claiming to be God in this passage.

Jesus turned him away from gaining eternal life. We hope so but I don’t think so. I think we missed the point. Because “Jesus looking at him felt a love for him” If he turned the man away it was for the man’s good, to save him and to not destroy.(so the flesh be destroyed so that the spirit be saved) So that is not the end of the man’s journey(Imo) but only the beginning…of his going away saddened for he owned much property. He will return. (Imo) because it will fail. We are told this in …go on make unto friends with the unrighteous mammon so that when it fails …if anything what is happening is the man is doing what the Revelation of Jesus Christ instructs: as many as He loves, He chastens …teaches…corrects…go buy true property and riches tried by Fire. One) it tells us this man was loved, the Spirit moved with compassion. Two) that great amount of property and riches …tried by fire will fail…that you (the man) may see. Yet we are high minded to assume that this man doesn’t receive exactly what Jesus instructed the man to do …go sell all you have; tried by fire …so that you may lack nothing in God. We are warned of high-minded to judged the rich man as rebuked and turned away is not loved in “as many as He loves He chastens” and “if you are without chastening you are a bastard and not a Son”…our high minded in looking down on the man who is just like us, whom Jesus felt a love for the man.

 

[brightfame52]

Thank you for reactivating this thread as it raises some very important questions….

When Jesus addressed the man, telling him to keep the Commandments, he was a Jew, addressing another Jew, under law. All Jews were under law until the new covenant was inaugurated on the night of Jesus’ arrest and validated by his death and resurrection, fulfilling the law and ending it. (Col 2:13-14; Eph 2:14-15)

According to scripture in Jesus’ own words, the whole Law was based on two important principles….”Love of God” and “love of neighbor”. These principles would never disappear even when the Law was no longer binding on the followers of Jesus Christ.…

Matt 22:34-40…..
“34 After the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they came together in one group. 35 And one of them, versed in the Law, tested him by asking: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love the Lord your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

So these principle would continue to guide God’s worshippers, especially when Gentiles were accepted into the Christian congregation. No one could break God’s law without contravening one or both of these principles. No longer were these to be held to a written code, but by human conscience and a mind and heart educated in God’s thinking embodied in the teachings of his son.

What role does obedience play in the big picture? A bigger role than many imagine, especially when we go back to mankind’s beginnings. If the humans had simply obeyed God’s command back in the garden of Eden, we would never have had this life of sin and suffering, unleashed on us.

Many do not stop to think what would have resulted if the humans had refused to act on the devil’s lies…..why did God put us humans here on this earth in the first place? It is just one tiny planet in a rather insignificant galaxy, among billions in a vast universe…..so don’t we need to concentrate on what God’s first purpose was, and where mankind would be today if they had remained obedient?

Did God ever design humankind to die and go to heaven? According to Genesis, “the tree of life” was there to grant everlasting life to the mortal humans who were obedient regarding the other “tree”. As long as they respected the law of God, and obeyed him in spite of what the devil offered, everlasting life on earth was not only possible but guaranteed by God in the form of a “tree of life”.

We have to understand that free will was a gift in the beginning …..disobedience, turned it into a curse.

The value of obedience is therefore paramount.

So do you understand that Jesus obedience alone is that obedience which makes people righteous, and blessed with God, apart from their own obedience ? Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Please notice the emphasize on the Obedience of One and the result it produced.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I am not sure people who really think obedience is required understand that we have already failed to achieve salvation through obedience because we have already failed to meet Gods standard. because as Paul said. we have all sinned and fall short.

Not only this, But we still do not meet Gods standard, because no one keeps Gods law perfectly. Only Christ was able to do this.

that's why Grace is required. because as James said, if we even STUMBLE in one point. we are guilty of the whole law. As Moses said. cursed is the one who does not obey every word.

those who want to push obedience (while sounding good humanly) need to realize, they themselves do not line up with Gods standard of obedient to be saved. If they stood in front of God based solely on how "good" they were. they would be lost forever. because no one is good enough.

That's why Jesus said the law has no power over his children. And he told us to love, him and everyone else. this is how we keep the law. This is how we are obedient. Seek after the things of the spirit. That law can not help you do this. Sadly, many, like the jews; sugarcoat or water down the law to a way they can be followers of the law.

Sadly, we need to wake up. as the man who said he kept the law since birth. Jesus said good sell all you have. Selling all he had would not save him, that was not Jesus point. his point was the person chose money over Godd, which means he broke the first command. which means he did NOT keep the law since birth. He was a law breaker not a keeper. and hence needed Christ. He failed to repent. and walked away.

Salvation is by Grace, it happens through faith as in faith we trust God in everything concerning the gospel. and recieve his gift of salvation. It is not of works or obedience. because if it is through obedience, we will all fail (we already have)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@Christophany, responding to the second half of your post. I don’t know how I lost your quotes they are in bold.

No prophet, apostle or teacher has ever talked in this presumptuous way in which Jesus did in the gospels and especially in this passage in the synoptic gospel. The young ruler runs up to Jesus kneels to Him in worship and asks Him how can I obtain eternal life? Jesus answers back and said come "Follow ME!" Do you see what Jesus is claiming? He does not say, these are the teachings that God has given me or follow these rules and you will get into heaven. He did not say to follow God or submit to God. Jesus tells the man to follow Me! Only God has that prerogative.

You said no one ever spoke in a presumptuous way as Jesus spoke in the NT. (I only say what I hear My Father say, and I only do what I see My Father do)?
Christ said, My doctrine is not mine but His who sent me. It is His Doctrine. They asked countless times …what is this Doctrine this teacher teaches? Where did this man get this Doctrine from? “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:”

Over and over Jesus said it didn’t come from men but that His doctrine come from God.

He was saying indirectly to the ruler, know that whom you are speaking to is God. He was letting the young ruler understand who he was talking to and addressing as good. Look at it this way, Is He saying He is not good, and therefore not God? Or is He saying that He is good, and the reason this man can call Him good is because He is God? I opt for the second statement.

The reason Jesus could be called good was for the Doctrine that is of and from God, and not of or from the doctrines of men. Another way to consider why he asked the man why do you call Me good?….could be what men call good is not always good. BUT what God calls…justified…sanctified …is enough. To me another point is not that the man called Jesus Christ good. But instead that God the Father called Him Good…even going as far as to say “This is My Son in whom I am well pleased, hear Him.”
He always pointed to the Father. Even saying “Believe God” yet yes, the Father said also “This is My Son…Hear Him.”

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

How does one obtain eternal life?

Jesus confronted him with His Lordship when He said come and follow Me. Jesus confronted the man's sin of covetousness. It was a sin of indulgence and materialism. He was indifferent to people who were poor and in need. So Jesus gave him the ultimate test, would he obey His Lordship? The antis and non trins get all hung up on who is good and cannot see past the plank in their own eyes to see what one must do to be saved. They're still in an unbelieving state and miss out on eternal life from its very source, Jesus. Rather sad indeed.

If we further examine the context of the question asked by the young ruler in verse 13 we read; people were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, He was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.

What must we do to gain eternal life? To me it is active …as in actively seeking, a living Hope, that does not fail …Paul gives a perfect example in “we are glad when we are weak that you be made strong. Be you Perfected. Be you Made whole in Him.” …unless I misunderstood Paul is speaking to those who despise and condemn him. We debate blasphemy but do we fully get the magnitude that they are calling Paul a reprobate and as one in whom Christ does not speak. Basically saying Christ speaking in and through Paul is a liar, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Paul (Christ speaking in him) gaining (Christ increased being perfected in them) eternal life in their bearing fruit unto God. Paul (the strength of God in Paul who is weak in the flesh but works mighty in and towards them) forbearing(a Fruit of the Spirit of God) their condemnation and their testing of “we want proof Jesus Christ speaks in you”, trying…testing yet Paul stands unshakable—unmoveable— and in Faith (- Fruit of the Spirit of God) and Belief(a Fruit of the Spirit of God) and Trust(a Fruit of the Spirit of God), long-suffering(another Fruit of the Spirit of God) their desire to do evil against a brother in Christ praying they do no wrong but instead do what is right …waiting patiently (Fruit of the Spirit of God) in Hope (a Fruit of the Spirit of God) for their bearing New Fruit, Growth unto God…instead of fruit unto death. And also Charity towards another(Fruit of the Spirit of God). Consider if you saw a tree slowly dying and you nurtured it even though it was dried up, withering away, no greenery or buds in sight, many would call it “dead” “no chance for new growth” …but you kept having Hope in the feeding and watering of the tree. you see some sprouts, new shoots of signs of new growth spring forth unto life and not death…how joyful (Full of Joy, a fruit of the Spirit of God) you would be “a witness” that faith and belief and care and patience Bourne Fruit unto Life…increase…when what was considered dead showed tender buds of new growth…leaves sprouting, fruit appearing. To me that is what Paul is speaking in Christ, minding the things of the Spirit of God in trusting(not them but God who gives the increase), having Faith, having belief in Christ…through patience having her perfect work is witnessing …the appearance of Jesus Christ in them bearing new growth and a tree flourishes counting it as a amazing sight.

My grandson dug up a little wild peach tree. He is sixteen. he replanted it where it can get sun. It has all but died. I mean it looks fully dead. BUT there are a few tiny springs of green shooting out on a few places. I tell him to not give up on it yet…it might just make it and live. In this I can relate to if I’m this excited and hopeful about a little peach tree having small signs of Life in it…how miraculous it would be to see what Paul was having hope, Faith, and belief was about to break forth in them, his brothers calling Paul no brother. How beautiful and admirable is Christ speaking in Paul says…calls for Fruit to come forth unto Life. Hoping. Desiring it. Which is not to curse them as hoping they bring forth death of the curse but Life unto God.

Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" 18 "Why do you call Me good?" Jesus answered. Let’s see what question was asked of Jesus. How can I get eternal life?" is the question. "Follow ME!" is the answer that he gets from Jesus. Do you see what He is claiming? He does NOT say, these are the teachings that God has given Me. Follow these rules and you will get to heaven. He did not say, "follow God or submit to God", but he said "Follow ME!". Jesus is Lord and had the authority to ask of mankind, Follow Me!

John 8:14
" Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from or where I am going.

John 8:18-20
18 I am one who testifies for Myself; My other witness is the Father, who sent Me."
19 Then they asked Him, "Where is your father?"
"You do not know Me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew Me, you would know My Father also."

Luke 24:27
Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Luke 24:44-45
44 Now He said to them, " These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
Yes this throws me. Because of the Doctrine is not mine but His who sent Me. he testifies of Me. If any man speaks of himself then you will know his doctrine is not true. The Father testifies of Me, I don’t speak of myself…but the Father has testified of Me.? Yes very confusing.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Is obedience a condition to salvation?

No.
Romans 8:28-29

 

[brightfame52]

I am not sure people who really think obedience is required understand that we have already failed to achieve salvation through obedience because we have already failed to meet Gods standard. because as Paul said. we have all sinned and fall short.

Not only this, But we still do not meet Gods standard, because no one keeps Gods law perfectly. Only Christ was able to do this.

that's why Grace is required. because as James said, if we even STUMBLE in one point. we are guilty of the whole law. As Moses said. cursed is the one who does not obey every word.

those who want to push obedience (while sounding good humanly) need to realize, they themselves do not line up with Gods standard of obedient to be saved. If they stood in front of God based solely on how "good" they were. they would be lost forever. because no one is good enough.

That's why Jesus said the law has no power over his children. And he told us to love, him and everyone else. this is how we keep the law. This is how we are obedient. Seek after the things of the spirit. That law can not help you do this. Sadly, many, like the jews; sugarcoat or water down the law to a way they can be followers of the law.

Sadly, we need to wake up. as the man who said he kept the law since birth. Jesus said good sell all you have. Selling all he had would not save him, that was not Jesus point. his point was the person chose money over Godd, which means he broke the first command. which means he did NOT keep the law since birth. He was a law breaker not a keeper. and hence needed Christ. He failed to repent. and walked away.

Salvation is by Grace, it happens through faith as in faith we trust God in everything concerning the gospel. and recieve his gift of salvation. It is not of works or obedience. because if it is through obedience, we will all fail (we already have)

Isnt Faith obedience Rom 1626

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Acts 6:7

And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So do you understand that Jesus obedience alone is that obedience which makes people righteous, and blessed with God, apart from their own obedience ?

What I understand is that the obedience of the Christ made the way for the forgiveness of our sins. But as for leading a life in Christ, we are the ones who need to obey God through his son. You make it sound as if Jesus did all the work so we don't have to...that is nonsense!

We are responsible for what we do and what we say....there are no excuses for deliberate or willful sin.

Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Please notice the emphasize on the Obedience of One and the result it produced.

Your emphasis sounds like an excuse to keep on sinning, as if you can't help it....falling short of our original perfection is a condition we inherited, but its not an excuse we can offer to Christ at the judgment as he is only interested in how we have "done the weill of the Father", not how well we pleased ourselves in what we chose to do. Our choices are ours to make...no one is standing there with a big stick forcing us to sin.

Do you understand that there are two kinds of sin? There is the sin (imperfection) we inherited from Adam and this is the one that we did not cause ourselves, (Psalm 51:5).....it was thrust upon us at conception, through no fault on our part....but the sins we commit in full knowledge of it, is not what Jesus came to remove by his sacrifice.....that is the kind of sin that we have to take responsibility for ourselves.

If we are the ones who transgress deliberately, knowing full well that we are sinning against God, then unless we are genuinely repentant, from the heart, we will not be forgiven. The OSAS crowd don't seem to understand this.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You can't obey until you are born again, and you Must be born again to be saved, and you Must abide in Jesus and He in us to belong to Christ. Those are all conditions so that you will naturally obey.

1 John 2:
And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Isnt Faith obedience Rom 1626

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Acts 6:7

And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

I would say yes. But Jesus makes it easy. He writes His commandments on our conscience. All you have to do is obey your conscience. I've done that all my life, even when I wasn't saved. But when I was finally saved, He wrote the commandments I was breaking on my conscience so I could keep those too, and actually took away the desire to commit them. His yoke is easy and His burden is light.

Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You can't obey until you are born again, and you Must be born again to be saved, and you Must abide in Jesus and He in us to belong to Christ. Those are all conditions so that you will naturally obey.

What does being "born again" mean to you? It's interesting that I can ask different Christians this question and get a variety of answers, but they never seem to be specific.
What are Christians being "saved" from?

1 John 2:
And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

The word of interest there is "abides" which in Greek is "menō" and is translated in other verses as "stays" "remains" or "lives".
"Abides" is not a modern English word, and so people can get the wrong idea about what this verse is saying.....
So in light of the Bible's teachings about God's kingdom, and those who are chosen for a heavenly role there, if you translate it with these other words, there is an interesting difference...
"Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God remains forever."
"Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God lives forever."
"Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God stays forever."

The world under satan's rulership (1 John 5:19) is what is "passing away" and all that the devil has wrought here will be undone.
"The one who practices sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up the works of the Devil." (1 John 3:8)

It is up to us to make it a practice NOT to sin deliberately.....those who make it a practice to sin, originate with the devil, and will suffer the same fate. Jesus came to break up his wicked works, so those who willfully practice sin will not be offered everlasting life. God has no use for willful sinners. He needs those who can do as they are told....to follow his laws and directions without question....following the example of Noah, Abraham, and Moses. Not a perfect man among them, but obedient from the heart.