Is Universalism Unorthodox

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Is Universalism Unorthodox

  • yes

    Votes: 5 71.4%
  • no

    Votes: 2 28.6%

  • Total voters
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MatthewG

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All walks of faith enter into the Kingdom, doesnt matter if believed in budda, or whatever religion?

Wouldnt that be fair to say?

But in Christainity there is only one way, through Christ?

What does on believe? Idk. People can believe all sorts of things and even profess to know God but still not obey him.

So are all going to be saved? Into the Kingdom of Heaven?

Thats what im wondering and it all relates to univeralism - not universal salvation which is different - because of Jesus and his victory but that information is now done deleted cause i felt jaded, @dev553344 but people are people.

How is your friend by the way, hope that the doctors helped him get better.

All the best in Christ,
Mathew
 
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dev553344

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No devin. I am asking you. I don't care what a wikipedia says. Sorry to be so blunt.

What do you think/believe universalism is?
I can see that some discussion and argument may be necessary to argue whether universalism is orthodox or not.

I believe the wikipedia article describes it appropriately. You can view that for my stance on the subject. In my research there is some promotion that that devil and his angels will also be saved in the context of Universalism. Which is nonesense. Since the bible clearly contradicts that idea.

That God didn't predestine people to hell by creating them. But there is nothing in the bible that supports that God predestined the devil to hell. Or other people for that matter. People have the right to choose their destiny, which includes the devil. And the bible clearly states that the devil goes to the lake of fire forever, and his followers.

When @Patrick1966 and you @MatthewG proposed your ideas I did some biblical research to make an educated decision for myself. I concluded that it was not biblical. There was some argument that the bible version changes the text of forever suffering in hell to not forever. But there were other scriptures that backed up forever damnation in those bible versions, So I could still not claim Universalism was supported in any bible translation.

In my view the arguments that universalism is orthodox must be supported by some biblical translation. Which it isn't.
 

MatthewG

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I can see that some discussion and argument may be necessary to argue whether universalism is orthodox or not.

I believe the wikipedia article describes it appropriately. You can view that for my stance on the subject. In my research there is some promotion that that devil and his angels will also be saved in the context of Universalism. Which is nonesense. Since the bible clearly contradicts that idea.

That God didn't predestine people to hell by creating them. But there is nothing in the bible that supports that God predestined the devil to hell. Or other people for that matter. People have the right to choose their destiny, which includes the devil. And the bible clearly states that the devil goes to the lake of fire forever, and his followers.

When @Patrick1966 and you @MatthewG proposed your ideas I did some biblical research to make an educated decision for myself. I concluded that it was not biblical. There was some argument that the bible version changes the text of forever suffering in hell to not forever. But there were other scriptures that backed up forever damnation in those bible versions, So I could still not claim Universalism was supported in any bible translation.

In my view the arguments that universalism is orthodox must be supported by some biblical translation. Which it isn't.
Okay, thank you.

I dont believe in universalism.

Its reconciliationism which is nothing new but its not universalism.

All the best,
Matthew
 

MatthewG

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But its not what man thinks its what the bible infers with a holistic view. You can try and search and research it but its all based on a bible as a whole and not just bits and pieces, and it pertains to the victory of Christ and his established kingdom.

Glory to God and i gotta get the heck off of here.
 
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dev553344

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Good night @MatthewG. All the best wishes for you!

My understanding is that something must be supported by the bible at minimum to be an orthodox idea. Without the bible supporting it then no one has a valid argument to claim it ever was orthodox.

Now that opens the door to universalism discussion which is outside the context of this thread. So please refrain from that. Arguments of why or why it is not orthodox are OK. Thanks.
 

L.A.M.B.

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What saith the word of God!
Does this sound like UR is an accepted practice of God?

**I apologize for the length of this post, I try not to do them but......*****

Romans 10:13
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

2Corinthinans7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the
sorrow of the world worketh death.

John 3
[18] He that believeith on him is not condemned: but he that believeth NOT is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

MATTHEW 15:8
"This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me".

Matthew 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Revelation 20
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that DECEIVED them was cast into the lake of fire with brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books
according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

Believe the word, not man!
Universal Reconciliation is another tactic of satan to usurp God.
IT IS NOT ONLY UNORTHODOX BUT IS A LIE OF SATAN, TO DECEIVE !
 

dev553344

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I apologize, Dev, but the readers of this site must be told God's word of truth!
Yes thanks for weighing in. I tend to agree with what you posted. You stated whether or not it was orthodox and why which is within the scope of this thread.
 
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Jack

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I believe the discussion was about whether it was orthodox or not , and that Dev did not want a debate on the actual subject. Perhaps consider ‘ What makes something orthodox or unorthodox’
@Patrick1966 , you didn’t like this happening on your thread the other day, yet you have chosen to get into an argument with @Jack on the actual subject here. There are too many posts to delete so I would ask you both to stick to the subject ………
I simply reply to posts that attack our Bible. That's why I'm here. I didn't start it.
 
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St. SteVen

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The enemy has corrupted the word of God, calling evil good and good evil. He has not stopped in his desire to " BE GOD". Therefore he is trying to take away the fear of the Lord from the hearts of man.
If the consequence for not receiving a "free gift' is incineration, that's not a free gift, it is extortion.
 
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Jack

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Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
Why is it that you conveniently avoid lots of NT?

Matthew 25:41 (NIV)

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Revelation 20:10-11 (NIV)
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 

St. SteVen

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Stick with the topic of the OP. Whether Universalism is orthodox or not.
This topic is a result of a couple of posts on the "I'm noticing a tend..." topic.

What I wrote:
Please do.
I object to people claiming that UR is unorthodox.
It was a common doctrine in the early church.
Something we were NOT told in church.

"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge" by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96 German theologian- Philip Schaff, Editor: "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."

What he wrote:
Anything that counters the biblical narrative is unorthodox. Sorry @St. SteVen

I started a thread to discuss if people see Universalism as unorthodox: Is Universalism Unorthodox
So, this thread is a lame attempt to disprove a claim that I didn't even make.

Obviously, the opinion of those who oppose UR would be that it is NOT orthodox.
Even though, the orthodoxy of Universalism preceded the supplanting doctrine of a forever burning hell.
So, there is nothing conclusive about a forum survey on the subject. Only highlights the effectiveness of the coverup.

Let's give it a name: Hellgate
(reminiscent of the Watergate coverup of the Nixon era)

@Hillsage @Chadrho
 
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St. SteVen

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By the way, did you also warn @St. SteVen and @Jack or only me?
FYI
This topic was started as a rebuttal against a claim I didn't even make.
I therefore feel entitled to continue THAT discussion DESPITE the limits the thread originator is requesting!
My cowardly debate opponent is attempting to hide behind an OP request. With staff support?

@Rita @dev553344
 
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St. SteVen

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I found a list of people that teach Universalism. It is in the wiki, surprised to find some Catholics in there: List of Christian universalists - Wikipedia

So it would appear that there may be some valid argument to claim universalism is orthodox. Although I still don't see it that way.
Yes, thank you.
There is a HUGE shift to return to the orthodox understanding that there are three biblical doctrines of the final judgment.
Those unfamiliar with this shift would have the knee-jerk reaction that we see so often.
 

Rockerduck

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The most important thing above all is do you have salvation by Jesus Christ, our savior. Do you know positively , that if you were to die today, will you be in Heaven? I positively know for sure my salvation is secure in Jesus. He'll be coming soon. So whether or not you believe Universalist or Orthodox teaching, if today is your last day, is Jesus your personal Savior.
 

St. SteVen

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In my view the arguments that universalism is orthodox must be supported by some biblical translation. Which it isn't.
Here you go. Young's Literal Translation.

Matthew 25:46 YLT
And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
 
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St. SteVen

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The most important thing above all is do you have salvation by Jesus Christ, our savior. Do you know positively , that if you were to die today, will you be in Heaven? I positively know for sure my salvation is secure in Jesus. He'll be coming soon. So whether or not you believe Universalist or Orthodox teaching, if today is your last day, is Jesus your personal Savior.
What do you make of this?

Mark 9:47-49 NIV
And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out.
It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye
than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’[a]
49 Everyone will be salted with fire.
 

St. SteVen

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What saith the word of God!
Does this sound like UR is an accepted practice of God?
There are three biblical views of the final judgment.
All three are in conflict with each other.
Here's an unbiased presentation of all three biblical views,
for anyone who hasn't seen it.

 
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