Is Universalism Unorthodox

[dev553344]

Just wanted to get some input on this subject. I consider any belief or doctrine that counters the biblical narrative to be unorthodox.

This thread is not intended to be a debate on Universalism itself. Thanks.

Thoughts?

 

[St. SteVen]

Just wanted to get some input on this subject. I consider any belief or doctrine that counters the biblical narrative to be unorthodox.

This thread is not intended to be a debate on Universalism itself. Thanks.

Thoughts?

What are you claiming as "the biblical narrative"? (as if there is consensus - NOT)

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 NIV
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

AND MANY MORE !!!!!

 

[Jack]

What are you claiming as "the biblical narrative"? (as if there is consensus - NOT)

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 NIV
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

AND MANY MORE !!!!!

All the promises of salvation are CONDITIONAL! You conveniently omit the warnings.

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED!

And many more!

 

[Jack]

I feel bad for all of those North Korean children who never heard of Jesus who died and who are at this very moment being brutally tortured by Jesus in Hell.

The Bible does not say children will go to Hell. And neither did I! Why do you make this stuff up?

 

[Jack]

The Gospel according to Jack.

Nope, according to Jesus. I quoted Him.

 

[Jack]

Oh. Do all children go to Heaven when they die?

They sure don't go to Hell!

 

[Jack]

Your theology on forever punishment is based on a MISTRANSLATION. You've been shown this numerous times but you just can't get past it.

Your unBiblical opinions do not overrule our Bible.

 

[Jack]

Ok so it's better to die as a child than to become an adult and risk eternal damnation in Hell, right?

Children who die are certainly a LOT better off than unsaved adults!

 

[Jack]

Which Bible?

How many do you want me to quote?

 

[Jack]

So we should celebrate when a child dies because they automatically go to Heaven, right, Jack?

Should parents kill their infants so that they are assured of going to Heaven? What greater gift can a parent give their children than guaranteed entrance into Heaven?

"Children who die are certainly a LOT better off than unsaved adults!"

 

[Jack]

Based on your theology, Christians should KILL all of their children before they reach an age of understanding so that they can be assured of Heaven.

Why are you talking about murdering children???

 

[Jack]

Forever punishment theology is nonsensical. It defies logic.

You're talking about our Bible Patrick.

 

[Jack]

You, my brother, are misled and misunderstand.

Irony indeed!

You said that all children go to Heaven when they die. Why is that? If they had grown up and gone bad, they would go to Hell forever, right? You see, none of that makes any logical sense.

That's because Universalism is Satanic and confuses it's victims.

Lamentations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off forever

What does that mean, Jack?

---

It means you are evading the many Scriptures that say you're wrong.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Jack]

View attachment 35339

Yes, I 'parrot' Jesus a LOT! Whom do you 'parrot'? I seriously doubt you even know.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Irony indeed!

That's because Universalism is Satanic and confuses it's victims.

It means you are evading the many Scriptures that say you're wrong.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Agree.
The enemy has corrupted the word of God, calling evil good and good evil. He has not stopped in his desire to " BE GOD". Therefore he is trying to take away the fear of the Lord from the hearts of man.

Proverbs 9
10] The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. [11] For by me thy days shall be multiplied, and the years of thy life shall be increased. [12] If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself: but if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it.

 

[Jack]

Human beings do not go through forever punishment.

The lake of fire was made for the devil and his angels.

Should we believe you or Jesus? Humans will receive the exact same punishment! At least you admitted eternal punishment is true!

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

However, in the revelation:

[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

But Jesus Christ has the keys to the death.

Revelation 1:18

I am He that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen, and have the keys of hell and of death.

Therefore -

Revelation 22:14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Why do you have issues with passages like this?

Universalist are leading people to Hell.

 

[Jack]

Dude, why are you fighting someone who doesn't believe in Universalism.

I believe in reconciliationism.

The only way to get to the Father, and to heaven is through Jesus Christ : there is no other way except by and through looking at nature and Gods created universe which is open to all to see especially those who do not have a bible.

Why are you totally evading the Words of Jesus? Unsaved humans will be with Satan 'forever and ever'!

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Jack]

Can you deal with these passages @Jack?

Human beings do not go through forever punishment.

Yes they do!
Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The lake of fire was made for the devil and his angels.

See above. It won't go away.

However, in the revelation:

[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

But Jesus Christ has the keys to the death, death had been done away with.

Revelation 1:18

I am He that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen, and have the keys of hell and of death.

Therefore -

Revelation 22:14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Why do you have issues with passages like this?

It seems there is a separation in heaven of unbelievers, and believers.

Do you realize you may be leading people to Hell?

 

[Jack]

Im not. I accept those passages.

And what you suggest here.

Unsaved humans will be with Satan 'forever and ever'!

is not true, I just showed you.

It's your word Vs Jesus'

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[Jack]

Ah it's a waste to go about this with you.

And, I ain't worried about what you gotta present.

You and me both are responsible before God alone.

Stupid to fight.

I'm defending the Bible. You're attacking the Bible.

Galatians 5
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.