i can't be here all the time.
The Lords work needs to be done out there because there are so many sick and homeless on the streets of Reno.
South of where?
The Gospel of Grace:
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i can't be here all the time.
The Lords work needs to be done out there because there are so many sick and homeless on the streets of Reno.
South of where?
first! glad you are showing the compassion that Christ has shown towards you?
and South is here in the Great state of Tenneessee! The land of Gods Grace! :)
Does it seem odd, that those who claim "to be saved by His Grace and mercy" Would turn and attempt to hinder others?
For no man has received anything from God apart from FAITH! Yet we have those here with evil hearts, that seek to pervert the true gospel! Claiming they have received? yet unwilling to grant others that which they claim they have been given freely?
Always ready to comdemn others to hell and limit heaven unto there "frozen chosen".
The best way one can tell if one is walking in the "law written on the heart" Is a simple test? Do you allow for others the salvation granted to you? Or do you seek to hinder and lay stumbling blocks in the path of others? If so? your heart is full of iniquity and you are lawless! You have broken the Royal Law!
Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
What do you think about people like this SOM? :blink:
Hi dragonfly,
I not sure what exactly you were wanting me to address regarding an earlier post, but I suspect it's in regard to the following quote from your post #609. Is that correct?
But those Christians who imagine their (continuing in) sin is now 'covered by the blood of Jesus' (an Old Covenant concept - not a New Covenant concept) because of the faith they exercised during a moment in the past, and that, despite their obedience to sin they are, in the future, still going to be imputed with Christ's righteousness on the last day, are mistaken. That doctrine is insupportable from the whole counsel of the word of God.
John's claim that believers 'do not sin' is with reference to the source of their spiritual 'life'. If a believer is walking in the true resurrection life of Christ, then as a lifestyle, he has stopped committing sins habitually, although there are many reasons he may find himself repenting either of thought, word or action. But steadily, he is bringing every thought captive to Jesus Christ (2 Cor 10) - his heart attitude towards God is right, and he is resisting sin.
Here we simply do not agree, rejecting each others understanding on scripture.
And again I will ask where do you get the idea of 'habitual' sin? Epi speaks of perfect obedience but you seem to be speaking of an almost perfect obedience. That is only partly free from sin, based on what your doctrine claims.
BUT, John 8:36 says Jesus set us free from sin (there is no partly free).
In scripture we see it's either you sin (and die) OR you do not sin.
And what is your claim of repentance for later sins committed by Christians based on? Repentance is from dead works which is a once only event (Heb 6:1-6).
Regarding Matt 7:21-23, what is the will of God?
John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
1Thess 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality;
And what are our works? It's the will of our Father.
John 6:29
that you believe in Him whom He sent
The thief on the cross who called Jesus 'Lord' obeyed the will of God. There was no outworking of this through works of physical perfection or almost perfection. He was sanctified by Christ one offering (Heb 10:10).
Those in Matt 7 who are told to depart as He never knew them are those who profess to know Him but by their works (Gal 3:3) they deny Him.
The message brother dave and I share here is to show from scripture what the will of God is. It's the gospel of grace.
Eph 5:17
Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
Deu 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
Deu 28:2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
Deu 28:3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
Deu 28:4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
Deu 28:5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
Deu 28:6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
Deu 28:7 The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
Deu 28:8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Deu 28:9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.
Deu 28:10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.
Deu 28:11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
Deu 28:12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
Deu 28:13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
Deu 28:14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
Joh 1:16 For of his fulness we all received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Deu 28:2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
Deu 28:3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
Deu 28:4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
Deu 28:5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
Deu 28:6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
Deu 28:7 The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
Deu 28:8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Deu 28:9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.
Deu 28:10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.
Deu 28:11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
Deu 28:12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
Deu 28:13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
Deu 28:14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
Joh 1:16 For of his fulness we all received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:16 For of his fulness we all received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Hos 14:4 I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.
Hos 14:5 I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow as the lily, and cast forth his roots as Lebanon.
Hos 14:6 His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the olive tree, and his smell as Lebanon.
Hos 14:7 They that dwell under his shadow shall return; they shall revive as the corn, and grow as the vine: the scent thereof shall be as the wine of Lebanon.
Hos 14:8 Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found.
Hos 14:9 Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the LORD are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the
things that are freely given to us of God.
The gospel is good news! "only believe" "for all things are possible for those who believe"!
and receive by Grace the kingdom of God! glory! B)
Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Hos 14:4 I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.
Hos 14:5 I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow as the lily, and cast forth his roots as Lebanon.
Hos 14:6 His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the olive tree, and his smell as Lebanon.
Hos 14:7 They that dwell under his shadow shall return; they shall revive as the corn, and grow as the vine: the scent thereof shall be as the wine of Lebanon.
Hos 14:8 Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found.
Hos 14:9 Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the LORD are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the
things that are freely given to us of God.
The gospel is good news! "only believe" "for all things are possible for those who believe"!
and receive by Grace the kingdom of God! glory! B)
Joh 1:16 For of his fulness we all received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Hos 14:4 I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.
Hos 14:5 I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow as the lily, and cast forth his roots as Lebanon.
Hos 14:6 His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the olive tree, and his smell as Lebanon.
Hos 14:7 They that dwell under his shadow shall return; they shall revive as the corn, and grow as the vine: the scent thereof shall be as the wine of Lebanon.
Hos 14:8 Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found.
Hos 14:9 Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the LORD are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the
things that are freely given to us of God.
The gospel is good news! "only believe" "for all things are possible for those who believe"!
and receive by Grace the kingdom of God! glory! B)
i have a tendency to grow on people? after you get past the hard exterior!
Isa 54:7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
Isa 54:8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
Isa 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
Isa 54:10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.
Isa 54:14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
Isa 54:15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.
Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt
condemn . This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.I believe the Word of The Living God! It will NEVER fail!
2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. B)
i have a tendency to grow on people? after you get past the hard exterior!
Isa 54:7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
Isa 54:8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
Isa 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
Isa 54:10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.
Isa 54:14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
Isa 54:15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.
Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt
I believe the Word of The Living God! It will NEVER fail!
2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. B)
Yes, His Word to us will never fail. Love those scriptures.
Axehead
wow! Axehead i think you really mean that? and glad that we can share our faith in His Word!
You know? i dont mind a conversation about "sin" or a believer who walks in the flesh? or reaping what one sows!
My whole point from the beginning is that to look at these issues apart from the power given to us by grace through faith. Will not be helpful nor can the issue of "sin" be overcome apart from the confidence we have in faith!
Paul and the other Apostles always approached the issue of" sin", first, by reminding those in error of who they are "in Christ". Then deal with the issues from the place of strength " IN CHRIST"
1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
here is an example of a believer? that brought destruction to his flesh, by his sin! but yet his spirit was to be saved! he was a born-again believer! who did not reject Christ by turning to law from faith, yet he brought judgment to his flesh by his sin?
Isa 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and contention, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye fast not this day so as to make your voice to be heard on high.
Isa 58:5 Is such the fast that I have chosen? the day for a man to afflict his soul? Is it to bow down his head as a rush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to Jehovah?
Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thy healing shall spring forth speedily; and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of Jehovah shall by thy rearward.
Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and Jehovah will answer; thou shalt cry, and he will say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking wickedly;
Isa 58:10 and if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul: then shall thy light rise in darkness, and thine obscurity be as the noonday;
Isa 58:11 and Jehovah will guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in dry places, and make strong thy bones; and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places; thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what this meaneth, I desire mercy, and not sacrifice
wow! Axehead i think you really mean that? and glad that we can share our faith in His Word!
You know? i dont mind a conversation about "sin" or a believer who walks in the flesh? or reaping what one sows!
My whole point from the beginning is that to look at these issues apart from the power given to us by grace through faith. Will not be helpful nor can the issue of "sin" be overcome apart from the confidence we have in faith!
Paul and the other Apostles always approached the issue of" sin", first, by reminding those in error of who they are "in Christ". Then deal with the issues from the place of strength " IN CHRIST"
1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
here is an example of a believer? that brought destruction to his flesh, by his sin! but yet his spirit was to be saved! he was a born-again believer! who did not reject Christ by turning to law from faith, yet he brought judgment to his flesh by his sin?
Isa 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and contention, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye fast not this day so as to make your voice to be heard on high.
Isa 58:5 Is such the fast that I have chosen? the day for a man to afflict his soul? Is it to bow down his head as a rush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to Jehovah?
Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thy healing shall spring forth speedily; and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of Jehovah shall by thy rearward.
Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and Jehovah will answer; thou shalt cry, and he will say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking wickedly;
Isa 58:10 and if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul: then shall thy light rise in darkness, and thine obscurity be as the noonday;
Isa 58:11 and Jehovah will guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in dry places, and make strong thy bones; and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places; thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what this meaneth, I desire mercy, and not sacrifice
Joh 8:10 And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee?
Joh 8:11 And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more.]
Joh 8:12 Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:15 For ye received not the spirit of bondage again unto fear; but ye received the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God:
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace.
The power over sin is received by faith! One CANNOT walk in the Spirit apart from faith! The kingdom of God is received by grace through simple childlike faith!
Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
Yes he was a believer, and if his flesh (old man) was destroyed, then his spirit could be saved on the Day of Visitation. If his flesh was not destroyed, ie if he did not consent to the crucifixion of the old man because of unbelief, then he would remainn lost, even as a believer.
Sadly many think scriptures apply to them just because they are believers.
Hi Hepzibah,
I think your reply was meant under another topic instead.
But, as you posted it here I might mention that it is related to the topic of grace anyway.
Regarding the fornication 1Cor 5 speaks of, this is spiritual and not physical.
We are saved by grace, but, to rebuild the things you destroyed (works of the law) you make yourself a transgressor (Gal 2:18). This is fornication.
We see this warning against spiritual fornication in Heb 12:15,16 for example:
looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;[sup] [/sup]lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.
Note also how 1Cor 5:7 speaks of purging out the old leaven, in reference to the fornication the Corinthians were facing.
The old leaven here refers to the doctrine of works of the law. We see this in Matt 16:11,12 also.
How is it you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread?—but to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” [sup] [/sup]Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
So was this fornicator a believer? No. They were in unbelief, trying to bring in doctrines of works, to be made perfect by the flesh.
Note also how 1Cor 5:9-13. They were to put out that wicked fornicator and not even to eat with them. Clearly fornicators are not believers.
Hi haz
Believers still bring in doctrines of works, to be made perfect by the flesh when the flesh is under judgement. When I say believers I do not mean the born again who are in Christ and under grace.
The disciples were believers before Pentecost. They thought that they had to work in the flesh and had to learn that sanctification is through faith in the finished work on the cross. When the scriptures talks about unbelievers, it is referring to these who do not understand the law of life.
Believers still bring in doctrines of works, to be made perfect by the flesh when the flesh is under judgement. When I say believers I do not mean the born again who are in Christ and under grace.
The disciples were believers before Pentecost. They thought that they had to work in the flesh and had to learn that sanctification is through faith in the finished work on the cross. When the scriptures talks about unbelievers, it is referring to these who do not understand the law of life.
Hi haz
1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you,
Let's just look at this for a minute. If the fornication was only 'spiritual', how would anyone else know about it? This is not rocket science, haz. The whole church knew what was going on, but no-one had taken appropriate steps to cleanse the body of its effects.
and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
You are way off the track to truth if you really believe there was no physical contact between that man and that woman!
The physical is an outworking of the spiritual. The spiritual departure from God in this man's heart, had taken place before the fornication was outworked physically. That's why God states He will give us a new heart, because out of the old one proceeds... fornication, etc.
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you,
Let's just look at this for a minute. If the fornication was only 'spiritual', how would anyone else know about it? This is not rocket science, haz. The whole church knew what was going on, but no-one had taken appropriate steps to cleanse the body of its effects.
and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
You are way off the track to truth if you really believe there was no physical contact between that man and that woman!
The physical is an outworking of the spiritual. The spiritual departure from God in this man's heart, had taken place before the fornication was outworked physically. That's why God states He will give us a new heart, because out of the old one proceeds... fornication, etc.
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Haz,
I don't even think the "Scripture Man" (Dave) will agree with that.
And I'm certainly
I can easily understand now why you think "being conformed to the image of Christ and bearing spiritual fruit that is easy to observe with physical eyes" are just WORKS, now.
"one should have his father's wife" is pretty easy to understand, Haz.
One naturally wonders what impact this kind of belief has in your life?
Axehead
I don't even think the "Scripture Man" (Dave) will agree with that.
And I'm certainly
I can easily understand now why you think "being conformed to the image of Christ and bearing spiritual fruit that is easy to observe with physical eyes" are just WORKS, now.
"one should have his father's wife" is pretty easy to understand, Haz.
One naturally wonders what impact this kind of belief has in your life?
Axehead
Not sure what you are trying to say? seems odd that scripture does not belong to believers? please explain how you reckon a scripture written to believers! does not belong to believers? Might also ask you to define what you men by the word "believer"? i think we are using the same word to describe two different understandings? Also what makes you assume the day of the Lord? is the day of visitation? never heard that before! i would like to see some scripture on some of these things? i have studied the greastest of bible teachers, and have never heard anything such as you are trying to present here today? i am very interested in how you have come to understand such deep things?
i still do not understand your point? maybe if you explain the law of life to me? i can understand what you are trying to say?
My brother Haz. i do believe we are warned of TWO different leavens.
Mat 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
This is clearly the most often of leavens mentioned in scripture! legalism, self-righteous works, hypocricy!
Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
Mar 8:15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
It has always been my understanding, that we not allow Hypocricy-law-works nor "open wickedness" both a work of the flesh! What we allow in the church, is seen as being accepted behavior? and will spread if not confronted with the Truth! This man, when confronted with the Truth, of unacceptable behavior in the church! Rejected the authority of those who had true authority. He paid a price! but was restored! into the fellowship!
2Co 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
2Co 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
2Co 2:8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
2Co 2:9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.
2Co 2:10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
Any one else with a view? or my Brother Haz might explain further?
Hi dragonfly and Axehead,
God's word is spiritual. Consider 1Cor 2:12-14
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy[sup] [/sup]Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [sup] [/sup]But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
If our focus is on reading scripture from the physical perspective then we miss the spiritual truth. Nicodemus did this thinking that being born again was to re-enter his mothers womb.
Esau sold his birthright for a bowel of porridge and we see in Heb 12:15,16 that he is described as a fornicator.
Those under grace are in fornication if they turn back to self-righteousness. We see this same warning against fornication in 1Thess 4:3.
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication
Scripture is spiritual. We shouldn't be trying to appply it in physical circumstances like Nicodemus did.
And note also 1Cor 5:6.
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
This is not speaking of physical leaven. Matt 16:11,12 describes leaven as doctrine.
How is it you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread?—but to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” [sup] [/sup]Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
The leaven 1Cor 5:6 speaks of is the doctrine of works of the law. This is spiritual fornication.
Note also how 1Cor 5:6 says 'Your glorying is not good'. It seems odd that the church at Corinth (or any society for that matter) would glory over the physical act of fornication between a man is his fathers wife. Don't you find that odd to glory over such an act?
But glorying is seen amongst those who boast about themselves and their own self-righteousness. Such are the fornicators 1Cor 5 says we should keep away from.
God's word is spiritual. I hope that you can now see this.
i would ask brother Haz? if you could look at fornication, as a" spiritual union" that defiles the ability of the soul to surrender to the "SEALED" spirit in the believer? This act ,i agree is different in the effect upon a believer, than any other "sin".
1Co 6:15
Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16
What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
1Co 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body
Haz, God's Word is understood through the Spirit, but we live in a physical world. "Jesus was hungered". Was he hungry physically or not?
You are using 1 Cor 2:12-14 to then make everything that happened in the New Testament in a physical way, SPIRITUAL. Was Paul flogged physically and run out of town or does that just mean something spiritual? Do you actually have a spiritual meaning for everything PHYSICAL that happened in the NT? Are you into Spiritual MetaPhysics or something?
Axehead
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