The Gospel of Grace:

[dragonfly]

Hi haz,

I will answer this one question you put to Axehead. I'm sure he'll feel free to add to my thoughts if he wishes.

Why resurrect it?

This is a misunderstanding of 'the body is dead because of sin'.

What Paul is referring to is the death which Adam brought into the world through sin. Look at these verses in Young's Literal:

Romans 5
12 because of this, even as through one man the sin did enter into the world, and through the sin the death;

and thus to all men the death did pass through, for that all did sin;​

​

14 but the death did reign from Adam till Moses, even upon those not having sinned in the likeness of Adam's transgression,

who is a type of him who is coming. ​

Do you see 'the death', there? This is the noun from which flows the verb - dying, to die; just as from the sin flows 'sinning', to sin.

Your physical body is not dead yet, so you do really do have to reckon with it. Paul says in Romans 6:

11 so also ye, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to the sin, and living to God in Jesus Christ our Lord.

13 neither present ye your members instruments of unrighteousness to the sin, but present yourselves

to God as living out of the dead, and your members instruments of righteousness to God;​

Now you must choose deliberately, through the power of the Holy Spirit, to give your whole body to God in His service, as this is one of the privileges of sonship whereby we grow into maturity in Christ.

Galatians 4
1 And I say, so long time as the heir is a babe, he differs nothing from a servant--being lord of all, [even though he is to be lord of all]

2 but is under tutors and stewards till the time appointed of the father

In Corinthians and Galatians, Paul makes clear that those who do not yield their bodies to God, as instruments of righteousness under the Lordship of Christ, by continuing in sin will not inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10; Galatians 5:19, 20, 21.

These are not new rules which Paul has added. They are implicit in the meaning of the gospel, which aims to restore mankind from a state of rebellion against God's word, into a state of agreement with Him, our obedience being physically outworked in everything.

This is a great parallel with the life of Christ, who took upon Himself a body - of a servant - and served as His Father commanded.

Perhaps it helps to remember that Adam did not choose to be made, and he received instructions from God from the start. He was always to be a servant of God's greater purposes. This has not changed. The distaste we feel for serving God, reflects our fallen mindset, which is now, through the power of the Holy Spirit, to be changed into the mindset of Christ. Philippians 2:5, 7, 8.

That's being carnal/walking according to the flesh.

It's only being carnal if you don't walk in the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

We are now a new spiritual creation in spiritual relationship with God.

While this is true, God gave Adam a body, and that body was clothed in glory, which is why Adam 'knew' his nakedness after he had sinned. It is a spiritual law, that a spirit seeks an appropriate body in which to dwell. We see this from the beginning, through David offering to build God a permanent temple on earth so that He could be among His people, to the spirits which asked Jesus to be cast out into the swine.

The idea that you are really just a spirit floating along, and God is not interested in how you use your body now, because one day you'll have an immortal body, is erroneous. What we do in our bodies is of intense interest to God, because of the effects that our actions have on our souls and spiritual well-being. Whenever we yield our bodies to unrighteousness, we open ourselves to adverse spiritual company. If we make acts of unrighteousness our habit - instead of acts of righteousness - we will reap fruit of unrighteousness, not fruit of the Spirit.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body,

according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.
​

Galatians 6
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatever a man sows, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all [men], especially to them who are of the household of faith.

 

[Axehead]

Axehead : a very simple question! yet you nor any of your friends can answer?


you speak of the whole counsel of God? yet you do not understand the basics?

how about a testimony? this is not too hard for you is it? You dont need any biblical understanding to give your testimony! what church have you been with? what teachers have you studied? these are common things in the Church and there cannot be a honest reason for keeping such things hidden!

What would my testimony mean to you in light of the fact that the scriptures we are bringing to your attention don't seem to mean anything to you. Any confidence that I would have had that you would not mock and ridicule someone is gone. Now, you want a testimony because you cannot address the issue at hand. You attack the person rather than the argument. What good would a testimony do for you in light of the fact that you cannot even address the Word of God that we present to you? You are just looking for something else to discount me and anyone else.

When the Bible talks about (in Revelation) "overcoming by the blood of the Lamb and the Word of our Testimony, I don't think it had in mind what you are asking (churches I have been with and teachers I have studied). You need to get real and learn to address the content of the posts and stop attacking people.

No one seems to know the Basics anymore because the Church has walked in LUKEWARMNESS for SO LONG that many think it is the NORMAL CHRISTIAN LIFE.

So, here are some basics for you.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. (JESUS says, I know thy WORKS. You got a problem with that?)
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. (He will reject us if we are LUKEWARM. What do you think about that?)
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. (He rebukes and chastens those He loves).
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (We are to OVERCOME as HE OVERCAME)

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; (Can you or Haz tell me what these "first works" are that Jesus is talking about?) or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.



Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, (Yes, we have to overcome as Jesus overcame, not as Adam failed) the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Does the Bible say that we are to walk as He walked? Does the Bible say that we are to cease from sin? This is a progressive life (powered by the Holy Spirit), but our attitude and heart must be hot and not lukewarm. You don't have to be perfect to be "hot" for Jesus.

Dave, you and Haz, don't understand these things because you have been part of the Church that ignores all of these scriptures. Man-made doctrines nullify large portions of God's Word. You don't need my testimony, you only need the testimony of God's Word and the Holy Spirit within you.

Axehead

 

[Episkopos]

Walking according to the flesh: Walking in the power of one born in Adam in the limitation and futility of one's own opinions and understanding. One who sins and believes sin is a part of life.

Walking according to the Spirit: Being filled with the Spirit and walking in the very presence of God. Having an instant obedience to the Spirit in all things with every thought being captured to Christ through His keeping power. Walking in the power of God's love.

Holiness: The purity and separateness of a man who lives in the new divine nature. Someone who is dead to sin and alive to God.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

 

[brother dave]

Walking according to the flesh: Walking in the power of one born in Adam in the limitation and futility of one's own opinions and understanding. One who sins and believes sin is a part of life.

Walking according to the Spirit: Being filled with the Spirit and walking in the very presence of God. Having an instant obedience to the Spirit in all things with every thought being captured to Christ through His keeping power. Walking in the power of God's love.

Holiness: The purity and separateness of a man who lives in the new divine nature. Someone who is dead to sin and alive to God.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

WOW! thats pretty good epi! now lets me and you start at this point with your OWN DEFINITIONS! and see according to the Word of God if we might agree on your definitions? allow me to ask of you a question and then you may ask of me! very simple! in Jn 14:21 what are the commandments he is writting of?

 

[Episkopos]

WOW! thats pretty good epi! now lets me and you start at this point with your OWN DEFINITIONS! and see according to the Word of God if we might agree on your definitions? allow me to ask of you a question and then you may ask of me! very simple! in Jn 14:21 what are the commandments he is writting of?

Jesus commandments are to love as He has loved....to walk the extra mile and turn the other cheek...To bless those who abuse us and pray for those who persecute us. Love our enemies and do good to those who wish evil on us.

We are to follow Jesus and do exactly as He does.

We are to forsake all to follow Him.

 

[brother dave]

Jesus commandments are to love as He has loved....to walk the extra mile and turn the other cheek...To bless those who abuse us and pray for those who persecute us. Love our enemies and do good to those who wish evil on us.

We are to follow Jesus and do exactly as He does.

We are to forsake all to follow Him.

since you failed to ask of me? i will continue? How does one become aware of Gods Love?

 

[Axehead]

Walking according to the flesh: Walking in the power of one born in Adam in the limitation and futility of one's own opinions and understanding. One who sins and believes sin is a part of life.

Walking according to the Spirit: Being filled with the Spirit and walking in the very presence of God. Having an instant obedience to the Spirit in all things with every thought being captured to Christ through His keeping power. Walking in the power of God's love.

Holiness: The purity and separateness of a man who lives in the new divine nature. Someone who is dead to sin and alive to God.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Episkopos,

I could not have said it more succinctly. Very good.

Regarding the commandments:

When the "law" or "commandments" are mentioned, most people think we are talking about the rituals and ordinances that were done away with when Jesus came to fulfill the law. The rituals did pass away but the law still stands. Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to abolish the law....but to fulfill it (obedience)." Matt 5:17

Since Jesus came to fulfill the law, we need to know first what the law is really saying. Jesus gave us this answer when He said,

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The law commands us to love and honor God with ALL of our of HEART. The law also commands us not to defraud or exploit our neighbor but to love him as we love ourselves. Therefore, we have fulfilled the law when we love the Lord with all of our heart and our neighbor as ourself.

This is exactly the God-kind of love which Jesus Christ came to perfect in the Body of Christ. This God-kind of love is called the DIVINE NATURE OF GOD. This love keeps all the commandments of the law. The opposite of this love is a FORM of GODLINESS.

The commandments of Jesus to the body of Christ are in total agreement with the commandments of God's law. Jesus said, "This is MY COMMANDMENT, that you love one another, JUST AS I HAVE LOVED YOU." John 15:12

We cannot love one another with the same love with which Jesus loved us unless we have the nature of God (divine nature), which God perfects (matures) in us.

Jesus continued, "Greater love has no one that this, that one LAY DOWN HIS (fleshly) LIFE FOR HIS FRIENDS." John 15;13

This God-kind of love cannot be perfected in us if we are unwilling to lay down our selfish lives in the flesh. Jesus commands us to put to death all the deeds (fleshly nature of Satan) of the flesh which always exploits and defrauds our neighbor with anger, hate, greed, lying, stealing, coveting, gossiping, slander, etc. This is how we lay down our lives.


1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Carnal doctrines and religious traditions have explained these scriptures away. What God calls love and what the church calls love are in many cases two different things. This is the reason that much of the church is in bondage to the powers of darkness, today. They have no hedge of protection from God because they are practicing sin instead of walking in covenant with the Lord Jesus Christ.

Axehead

Jesus commandments are to love as He has loved....to walk the extra mile and turn the other cheek...To bless those who abuse us and pray for those who persecute us. Love our enemies and do good to those who wish evil on us.

We are to follow Jesus and do exactly as He does.

We are to forsake all to follow Him.

I just saw your post and we are in total agreement. We are to love as Jesus loved, to walk as He walked.

Amen! Hallelujah!

 

[us2are1]

Gal 5:6

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision has any force, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.


is this what you are speaking of?

and do you believe the Holy Spirit ever departs from a true believer?

for you said
"asking God often" do you not believe one can always have and walk in His Spirit?

1Jn 2:5 but whoever keeps his word, in him verily the love of God is perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that says he abides in him ought, even as *he* walked, himself also so to walk.

Matthew 7:7 CJB
"Keep asking, and it will be given to you; keep seeking, and you will find; keep knocking, and the door will be opened to you.

Luke 11:13 CJB
So if you, even though you are bad, know how to give your children gifts that are good, how much more will the Father keep giving the Ruach HaKodesh from heaven to those who keep asking him!"

 

[brother dave]

Matthew 7:7 CJB
"Keep asking, and it will be given to you; keep seeking, and you will find; keep knocking, and the door will be opened to you.

Luke 11:13 CJB
So if you, even though you are bad, know how to give your children gifts that are good, how much more will the Father keep giving the Ruach HaKodesh from heaven to those who keep asking him!"

look SOM, you ran off the other day! right now i am attempting to have a dialog with epi! i will be glad to speak with you later. i have all weekend! so please holler back at me! as we say here in the south.

 

[Episkopos]

since you failed to ask of me? i will continue? How does one become aware of Gods Love?

Through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

I don't ask you what you think because I don't think this a matter of opinion.

 

[brother dave]

Through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

I don't ask you what you think because I don't think this a matter of opinion.

i guess you mean the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit? rom 5:5 and that continued witness? When and how does one receive that witness? and do you believe this is the Great promise of "the law written in our heart"?

by the way, i died to my own opinion years ago at His Cross! so lets please try not to be smart with each other long enough to understand each others beliefs!

 

[Prentis]

The new man is promised life abundantly in Christ.

But first the old man must be condemned to death, he is already judged and cannot please God. Many claim the promises of life without coming to the death first, and when one comes preaching that if we would die with him we would be raised with Him and like Him, which is the power of the gospel, then they reject him because they believe such a life is impossible. This is because their experience is limited to the old man, having never gone through the death, they have not experienced the life, and thus when it is preached to them, they cannot believe it.

This is because they already believe themselves to be Christian, but they have not gone through the death, and have at most received an illusion of the life. This illusion, as long as they believe it and hold on to it, is the very thing which keeps them from believing the truth and truly coming to the light.

 

[Episkopos]

i guess you mean the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit? rom 5:5 and that continued witness? When and how does one receive that witness? and do you believe this is the Great promise of "the law written in our heart"?

by the way, i died to my own opinion years ago at His Cross! so lets please try not to be smart with each other long enough to understand each others beliefs!

Hi Dave

For some this is an event from the beginning...born from above with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. For others this is sometimes called..the second blessing...of being filled with the Spirit. The receiving of the new nature IS the law being written on our hearts. But in order to walk in this new nature we must have our old nature put to death.

A born again person now has a choice on how he will live. The enemy loves to spoil the new believer by getting him to continue to think carnally. One of those enemy thoughts is that it is works to seek to be perfected in Christ. The enemy will do anything to spoil the willl of God for us.

So there are two gospels out there. The true gospel is the cross of death before life. The false one presents only the benefits of Jesus' death on the cross FOR us so that Jesus hides our sinful natures from God...so no death just add Jesus.

 

[brother dave]

Hi Dave

For some this is an event from the beginning...born from above with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. For others this is sometimes called..the second blessing...of being filled with the Spirit. The receiving of the new nature IS the law being written on our hearts. But in order to walk in this new nature we must have our old nature put to death.

A born again person now has a choice on how he will live. The enemy loves to spoil the new believer by getting him to continue to think carnally. One of those enemy thoughts is that it is works to seek to be perfected in Christ. The enemy will do anything to spoil the willl of God for us.

So there are two gospels out there. The true gospel is the cross of death before life. The false one presents only the benefits of Jesus' death on the cross FOR us so that Jesus hides our sinful natures from God...so no death just add Jesus.

i am not trying to find where we disagree, but agree? and at no time have i defended those who walk in the flesh! my point i would like to establish is that, we who enter into the Spirit? do so by faith! and only by faith can one truly continue in the Spirit! outside of faith, all men are in the flesh! no matter how religious they act nor how many or few "sins" they do or do not commit! We enter into the Spirit by faith and maintain our Spiritual walk in and by faith. do you agree?


This has been my point from the beginning of my conversations on this thread. That sincere faith, the kind tested and proved by fire! even tested by temptation! faith that proves the work of the Spirit in one who calls themselves a believer.
Is and must be the first consideration for those who seek or claim to live godly lives or have a true Spiritual walk.

 

[haz]

Hi haz,

I will answer this one question you put to Axehead. I'm sure he'll feel free to add to my thoughts if he wishes.



This is a misunderstanding of 'the body is dead because of sin'.

What Paul is referring to is the death which Adam brought into the world through sin. Look at these verses in Young's Literal:

Romans 5
12 because of this, even as through one man the sin did enter into the world, and through the sin the death;

and thus to all men the death did pass through, for that all did sin;​

14 but the death did reign from Adam till Moses, even upon those not having sinned in the likeness of Adam's transgression,

who is a type of him who is coming. ​

Do you see 'the death', there? This is the noun from which flows the verb - dying, to die; just as from the sin flows 'sinning', to sin.

Your physical body is not dead yet, so you do really do have to reckon with it. Paul says in Romans 6:

11 so also ye, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to the sin, and living to God in Jesus Christ our Lord.

13 neither present ye your members instruments of unrighteousness to the sin, but present yourselves

to God as living out of the dead, and your members instruments of righteousness to God;​

Now you must choose deliberately, through the power of the Holy Spirit, to give your whole body to God in His service, as this is one of the privileges of sonship whereby we grow into maturity in Christ.

Galatians 4
1 And I say, so long time as the heir is a babe, he differs nothing from a servant--being lord of all, [even though he is to be lord of all]

2 but is under tutors and stewards till the time appointed of the father

In Corinthians and Galatians, Paul makes clear that those who do not yield their bodies to God, as instruments of righteousness under the Lordship of Christ, by continuing in sin will not inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10; Galatians 5:19, 20, 21.

These are not new rules which Paul has added. They are implicit in the meaning of the gospel, which aims to restore mankind from a state of rebellion against God's word, into a state of agreement with Him, our obedience being physically outworked in everything.

This is a great parallel with the life of Christ, who took upon Himself a body - of a servant - and served as His Father commanded.

Perhaps it helps to remember that Adam did not choose to be made, and he received instructions from God from the start. He was always to be a servant of God's greater purposes. This has not changed. The distaste we feel for serving God, reflects our fallen mindset, which is now, through the power of the Holy Spirit, to be changed into the mindset of Christ. Philippians 2:5, 7, 8.



It's only being carnal if you don't walk in the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.



While this is true, God gave Adam a body, and that body was clothed in glory, which is why Adam 'knew' his nakedness after he had sinned. It is a spiritual law, that a spirit seeks an appropriate body in which to dwell. We see this from the beginning, through David offering to build God a permanent temple on earth so that He could be among His people, to the spirits which asked Jesus to be cast out into the swine.

The idea that you are really just a spirit floating along, and God is not interested in how you use your body now, because one day you'll have an immortal body, is erroneous. What we do in our bodies is of intense interest to God, because of the effects that our actions have on our souls and spiritual well-being. Whenever we yield our bodies to unrighteousness, we open ourselves to adverse spiritual company. If we make acts of unrighteousness our habit - instead of acts of righteousness - we will reap fruit of unrighteousness, not fruit of the Spirit.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body,

according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.​

Galatians 6
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatever a man sows, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all [men], especially to them who are of the household of faith.

Hi dragonfly,

I going to have to disagree with your rejection of the body being dead as described in Rom 8:10. Christians walk by faith instead of looking for physical proof before accepting it.

It's interesting you don't see your body as dead.
Also, you said 'It is not uncommon for Christians to disbelieve that Christ is in them'.

BUT, consider Rom 8:10 against your claims above.
Rom 8:10
And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin

Also consider
2Cor 5:14
For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;
Rom 6:6
our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with

I agree with you that some professing Christians do not believe that Christ is in them. They still see their body as alive to be judged for sin. They have not been freed from sin (Rom 6:7)

I read in your post #560 &#581 you speak of "sin as a lifestyle' and "continue in sin". I'm curious where you get this idea of from?
Either someone sins and the penalty is death OR they do not sin. It's one OR the other. There is no halfway stage of merely sinning sometimes. You said sin separates us from God. This I agree with, (although we define sin differently). So why don't you say that the moment you come to Christ there is no more sin at all? Instantaneously. No future sins.

Also, you said to me 'So am I to gather that you are so traumatised by your experience of Seventh Day Adventism, that you find it impossible to look at scripture through unbiased eyes?

This statement of your shows that you see any suspected refusal to listen to Adventist doctrine as bias. Hence I'd like to ask if you are an Adventist or ever were one. Can you please let me know?
Rest assured I am non-denominational so I don't follow the bias of any church label. Instead I believe 1John 2:27 and 1Cor 2:13 regarding who teaches Christians, so that is my only bias.

 

[Episkopos]

i am not trying to find where we disagree, but agree? and at no time have i defended those who walk in the flesh! my point i would like to establish is that, we who enter into the Spirit? do so by faith! and only by faith can one truly continue in the Spirit! outside of faith, all men are in the flesh! no matter how religious they act nor how many or few "sins" they do or do not commit! We enter into the Spirit by faith and maintain our Spiritual walk in and by faith. do you agree?


This has been my point from the beginning of my conversations on this thread. That sincere faith, the kind tested and proved by fire! even tested by temptation! faith that proves the work of the Spirit in one who calls themselves a believer.
Is and must be the first consideration for those who seek or claim to live godly lives or have a true Spiritual walk.

Agreed!!!

Haz wrote

Christians walk by faith instead of looking for physical proof before accepting it.

So why not believe that we can walk like Christ when we abide in Christ as John testifies to in the bible...???

Is proof required for this? Or is faith required?

 

[brother dave]

Agreed!!!

Haz wrote


So why not believe that we can walk like Christ when we abide in Christ as John testifies to in the bible...???

Is proof required for this? Or is faith required?

2Co 13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

clearly! the proof of faith is power!

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


we abide in His word by faith! from faith in His Word ,we do the works of His Word!

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

1Co 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

As He is so am i in this world! He walked in faith and true holiness from heaven! not a religious code! not a set of mans standards ! not something that the natural man would understand as holy! but in complete union with God and seperate from that which is of this world! a holiness from heaven .only attained by faith and the HOLY Spirit!

the reason no written standard in the new testament is given is because the natural man will attempt to produce itS own type of earthly holiness! instead the standard is found in true faith and abiding in the Word by faith!
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

NO ONE CAN LIVE GODLY OR HOLY APART FROM FAITH!

IF YOU WANT POWER OVER SIN? BELIEVE THE WORD OF GOD!

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Word of God is alive! and when held in real faith has the POWER to overcome all things! even our flesh!

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Prentis,

A big amen to this statement.

The new man is promised life abundantly in Christ.

But first the old man must be condemned to death, he is already judged and cannot please God. Many claim the promises of life without coming to the death first, and when one comes preaching that if we would die with him we would be raised with Him and like Him, which is the power of the gospel, then they reject him because they believe such a life is impossible. This is because their experience is limited to the old man, having never gone through the death, they have not experienced the life, and thus when it is preached to them, they cannot believe it.

This is because they already believe themselves to be Christian, but they have not gone through the death, and have at most received an illusion of the life. This illusion, as long as they believe it and hold on to it, is the very thing which keeps them from believing the truth and truly coming to the light.

 

[Episkopos]

2Co 13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

clearly! the proof of faith is power!

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


we abide in His word by faith! from faith in His Word ,we do the works of His Word!

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

1Co 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

As He is so am i in this world! He walked in faith and true holiness from heaven! not a religious code! not a set of mans standards ! not something that the natural man would understand as holy! but in complete union with God and seperate from that which is of this world! a holiness from heaven .only attained by faith and the HOLY Spirit!

the reason no written standard in the new testament is given is because the natural man will attempt to produce itS own type of earthly holiness! instead the standard is found in true faith and abiding in the Word by faith!
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

NO ONE CAN LIVE GODLY OR HOLY APART FROM FAITH!

IF YOU WANT POWER OVER SIN BELIEVE THE WORD OF GOD!

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Word of God is alive! and when held in real faith has the POWER to overcome all things! even our flesh!

I agree with this which leads me to believe that there is more than one poster using the username "brotherdave".

What have you done with the original poster?

 

[brother dave]

I agree with this which leads me to believe that there is more than one poster using the username "brotherdave".

What have you done with the original poster?

well mr epi? i dont know what you are speaking of? But those of us who have true faith have learned the POWER of faith!

Sin is not an issue for those who understand Gods Power over it! and the reason so many have, so little power, is because they have so little faith!

so then the problem in the church, is not that people sin? but the lack of faith!

if you want to help the church? preach the fear of God against those who lack faith!
Heb 4:1


Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


the reason so many fail at the divine nature is because they have no faith in the promise!

The kingdom of God! is received by FAITH! not achieved by mans efforts!