Once saved, always saved is a myth.
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Grailhunter
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
My ministry is the Johnny Appleseed of Truth...
My motto is be good and do good....
My salvation is written in stone.....
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Mine was a question that only required a simple answer. Yes or no.
Shall you enter the kingdom of Heaven?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Actually one of the reasons I am so adamantly against OSAS is that it is one of those beliefs that can lead people to damnation. As I have said before I think the OSAS belief is favored by those that want to live a sinful lifestyle and still think they are not going to Hell and even rewarded eternity in Heaven. But then some have other reasons that are more sympathetic to others….like parents that have offspring that live sinful lifestyles that cannot bear the thought of their kids going to Hell. It is kinda like a mother of a serial killer in prison that will tell you their son has a good heart. It is not like they want to be sinful themselves, they may lead a good Christian life. It is their concern for others that are habitual sinners.
My concern is that not everyone comes to Christianity early in their life….raised in a good Christian family with their head on straight. Some come to Christianity a complete mess….they have seen the worst of life and have done the worst of things. They want to turn their life around and be a good person. But then they meet someone from the OSAS crowd that tells them they are going to Heaven no matter what they do as long as they believe in Christ.
So why go to the trouble of trying to be good? Why stop doing the things they like? So they are back to doing drugs and back to partying with scum and shooting drugs in a little girl’s arm so they have sex with them …..and all the while convinced they do not have to worry about Hell because they are Heaven bound because they believe in Christ.
My concern is that not everyone comes to Christianity early in their life….raised in a good Christian family with their head on straight. Some come to Christianity a complete mess….they have seen the worst of life and have done the worst of things. They want to turn their life around and be a good person. But then they meet someone from the OSAS crowd that tells them they are going to Heaven no matter what they do as long as they believe in Christ.
So why go to the trouble of trying to be good? Why stop doing the things they like? So they are back to doing drugs and back to partying with scum and shooting drugs in a little girl’s arm so they have sex with them …..and all the while convinced they do not have to worry about Hell because they are Heaven bound because they believe in Christ.
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BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Interesting phraseology.
Does that confidence permit
a yes or no answer to my question?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Not my first rodeo....
Suspicious of leading questions...
I understand that there are different concepts of the "Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven" so I side stepped it to keep it simple.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
I don't rodeo.
My question was asked in the context of your statement and understanding of the kingdom of God.
Not leading. A simple question asking yet again for a simple answer.
According to your understanding of the kingdom of God. Shall you see the kingdom of God? Yes or no?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
My answer is still, I am going to Heaven where God and the saints will be.
BUT....
While some believe that the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are referring to different things, it is clear that both phrases are referring to the same thing. The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs 68 times in 10 different New Testament books, while “kingdom of heaven” occurs only 32 times, and only in the Gospel of Matthew. Based on Matthew’s exclusive use of the phrase and the Jewish nature of his Gospel, some interpreters have concluded that Matthew was writing concerning the millennial kingdom while the other New Testament authors were referring to the universal kingdom. However, a closer study of the use of the phrase reveals that this interpretation is in error.
For example, speaking to the rich young ruler, Christ uses “kingdom of heaven” and “kingdom of God” interchangeably. “Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven’” (Matthew 19:23). In the very next verse, Christ proclaims, “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (verse 24). Jesus makes no distinction between the two terms but seems to consider them synonymous.
Mark and Luke used “kingdom of God” where Matthew used “kingdom of heaven” frequently in parallel accounts of the same parable. Compare Matthew 11:11-12 with Luke 7:28; Matthew 13:11with Mark 4:11 and Luke 8:10; Matthew 13:24 with Mark 4:26; Matthew 13:31 with Mark 4:30 and Luke 13:18; Matthew 13:33 with Luke 13:20; Matthew 18:3 with Mark 10:14 and Luke 18:16; and Matthew 22:2 with Luke 13:29. In each instance, Matthew used the phrase “kingdom of heaven” while Mark and/or Luke used “kingdom of God.” Clearly, the two phrases refer to the same thing.
On the other hand the Gnostics believed that the kingdom is in us. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that there will be a physical kingdom of Christ on earth. I believe that both phrases kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God are both referring to the divine kingdom where God is....not on earth.
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Luke 17:21 Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
The Kingdom of God resides on the hearts of individuals who hope to one day go to the Heavenly Jerusalem that is after this life.
In their day, they were also waiting for Jesus to come back - which he did, however people disagree that Jesus never came back, and that is something that needs to be looked into.
There are secular writers such as (Josephus, Suetonious, Cassio Dio, and Tacticus may be some merit to look into as well, pertaining to when Jesus told his disciples about the "End of the age."
The Kingdom of God resides on the hearts of individuals who hope to one day go to the Heavenly Jerusalem that is after this life.
In their day, they were also waiting for Jesus to come back - which he did, however people disagree that Jesus never came back, and that is something that needs to be looked into.
There are secular writers such as (Josephus, Suetonious, Cassio Dio, and Tacticus may be some merit to look into as well, pertaining to when Jesus told his disciples about the "End of the age."
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Okay, logically we can say that some will fall away while others will remain. But so what? The question is, how sure is your hope?
Romans 5:1-5 among other NT passages, explain why some don't fall away.
Sometimes you can't reason based on logic, you have to reason based on faith, @CadyandZoe.
Many people love to base everything logic...
Many people love to base everything logic...
Does Jesus Christ speak the truth?
Logically, people say hell to the NO, @CadyandZoe.
Especially if you have someone that comes up to you and says ... didnt Jesus say he was gonna come back? And you say yes, and then ask well did he? Then you say no... then the bible is a lie itself.
My personally belief and faith is yes, he did.
Logically, people say hell to the NO, @CadyandZoe.
Especially if you have someone that comes up to you and says ... didnt Jesus say he was gonna come back? And you say yes, and then ask well did he? Then you say no... then the bible is a lie itself.
My personally belief and faith is yes, he did.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Whether one can reason without logic is debatable, but one can not explicate the scriptures to an on-line audience without logic.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Well before the Gnostics, Jesus said the kingdom of God is within..
Thank you for your answer.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Christ talked about entering.....Unless you have a side panel in your ribs or maybe an elevator He was talking about going somewhere.
For example, speaking to the rich young ruler, Christ uses “kingdom of heaven” and “kingdom of God” interchangeably. “Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven’” (Matthew 19:23). In the very next verse, Christ proclaims, “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (verse 24). Jesus makes no distinction between the two terms but seems to consider them synonymous.
Then again in that era the phrases kingdom of heaven or kingdom of God were very popular phrases. Different people and religious sects used them for different things. It is kind of like the word logos....the Greeks coined the term in the 6th century BC and several people used the term for different things.
The kingdom within is a significant belief within Gnosticism.
People including myself; will fight, bicker and moan when we cant have it our way either.
Hell faith isnt even based on logic. Its based on hope in something we cant see.
So people can just chooze what they will, and in christ all one can do is love them and share truth while they got life
Hoping to go be with God….
Cause no one is promised anything. Just faith, hope and love; and whats the logic to having to die to yourself snd rise to new life.
All the best man, or woman whoever it may be. Cady and zoe
Once one is truly Saved you are Christ Jesus body and he is your Head.
And you are of the Kingdom of God in fact ! so you can not be plucked out of his hand ?
A religious can fail, why because they have not been Saved and Bible says about the weeds of this world spring up a chock such a one who has little faith.
I remember before i was truly born again, that i had some doubt's about Jesus, i knew of him but did not know him ? and i could maybe of failed due to this world, but once i was Saved i know that is totally impossible in fact ! I know Him and when i came to truly know him it was much like Saul was called. and it was out of the blue, it just hit me ! what an experience that was.
So i do understand religious people and why they fail. For they are no one with Christ Jesus in fact, for if they were they would understand in fact.
And you are of the Kingdom of God in fact ! so you can not be plucked out of his hand ?
A religious can fail, why because they have not been Saved and Bible says about the weeds of this world spring up a chock such a one who has little faith.
I remember before i was truly born again, that i had some doubt's about Jesus, i knew of him but did not know him ? and i could maybe of failed due to this world, but once i was Saved i know that is totally impossible in fact ! I know Him and when i came to truly know him it was much like Saul was called. and it was out of the blue, it just hit me ! what an experience that was.
So i do understand religious people and why they fail. For they are no one with Christ Jesus in fact, for if they were they would understand in fact.
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