Tradition Versus Scripture

[The Learner]

We should distingish between:
1. Apostolic Tradition --- Gospel and Teaching of the Apostles and Jesus
2. Man Made tradition --- Gnostics like in John's letters, scribes and pharsees,____
3. Not sure if there is another kind of tradition.

 

[amigo de christo]

What WE should do is GET in the bible . start learning .

 

[The Learner]

Apostolic Tradition

2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Man's traditions

Matthew 15:2
Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

Matthew 15:3
But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Matthew 15:6
And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Mark 7:3
For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

Mark 7:5
Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

Mark 7:8
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Mark 7:9
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Mark 7:13
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Galatians 1:14
And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


1 Peter 1:18
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;


Me: philosophy --- one is the gnostics which John wrote about.

1 John 1:8-10
King James Version
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[The Learner]

What WE should do is GET in the bible . start learning .

AMENO Brother, friend

 

[Brakelite]

Lol....Hold on, HOLD ON

There a several references of the baptizing of entire families in Scripture. Which means that HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of families were baptized during that time since not all are recorded. But according to your theory no infants were in those families?

The earliest Christian writings we have from the 2nd-3rd century say infants were baptized and the earliest church debate on it was if they could be baptized BEFORE the 8th day after birth. So for the first 250 years of Christianity, we have Scripture and Christian historical writings that back up infant baptism.......but you think infant baptism is a possible impediment???

And Romans 6 proves infant baptism is not Scriptural....

Ok brakelite.....Keep reading what your 500-year-old men have wrote. I will stick to what men wrote 2,000 years ago.

That's all you've got? Against inspired scripture you offer one text that says such and such "and his family" were baptized. That doesn't necessarily include infants. Particularly when other inspired scripture such as Romans 6 reveals the entire purpose of baptism which cannot apply to infants.
And you are such a hypocrite when accusing others of "listening to their men" while your church admonishes Catholics to listen to their men only. That if the church teaches the snow is green, the Catholic must believe it, not his own senses, or his personal convictions, permitted to enter into the equation. I believe that what you are doing is a type of reverse psychology. The issue you have with protestants isn't that they listen to their men... You are simply amplifying that, like telling people to go to the lowest side of a sinking ship... The issue you have is the Catholic issue with Protestantism since the reformation... That protestants determine for themselves what is truth with the aid of the holy Spirit. This truth... This doctrine, is what caused Catholicism to bleed from every orifice. And finally the common people were able to learn for themselves what Catholicism is truly all about. And so protestants emigrated across the world and enriched every nation where they made a home.

 

[amigo de christo]

That's all you've got? Against inspired scripture you offer one text that says such and such "and his family" were baptized. That doesn't necessarily include infants. Particularly when other inspired scripture such as Romans 6 reveals the entire purpose of baptism which cannot apply to infants.
And you are such a hypocrite when accusing others of "listening to their men" while your church admonishes Catholics to listen to their men only. That if the church teaches the snow is green, the Catholic must believe it, not his own senses, or his personal convictions, permitted to enter into the equation. I believe that what you are doing is a type of reverse psychology. The issue you have with protestants isn't that they listen to their men... You are simply amplifying that, like telling people to go to the lowest side of a sinking ship... The issue you have is the Catholic issue with Protestantism since the reformation... That protestants determine for themselves what is truth with the aid of the holy Spirit. This truth... This doctrine, is what caused Catholicism to bleed from every orifice. And finally the common people were able to learn for themselves what Catholicism is truly all about. And so protestants emigrated across the world and enriched every nation where they made a home.

Never bow to the harlot .
We have a pure and holy example we can give them in the scriptures .
It makes this very plain and very clear to us .
So i want us all to take heed to this reminder .
Once upon a time in land far away a man , a eunach had gone up to jerusalem to worship .
He was returning from his journey when a man named phillip , CALLED BY THE SPIRIT , went unto this eunach .
The eunach was reading from the holy book called ISSIAH . chapter fifty three to be exact .
Phillip went up into his carriage and expounded unto HIM JESUS CHRIST .
Now for the part that will shut down the HARLOT .
The eunach saw water . What did he ask , what did he say to phillip and how to did phillip respond .
THAT IS THE KEY , ITS THE ANSWER to it all .
So lets talk about this .
The eunach said LOOK HERE IS WATER , what does HINDER me from being BAPTIZED .
Now take note phillip did not say , NOTHING , ANY POPE or any catholic can baptize one at birth .
WRONG ANSWER pardners .
WHAT DID PHILLIP SAY . WHAT DID HE SAY INDEED .
What was HIS REPLY to the eunach . IF .
The first word OUTTA HIS MOUTH was a IF and thus WE HAD BETTER TAKE HEED TO WHAT FOLLOWED THAT IF .
IF YE BELIEVE , IF YE BELIEVE
IF YE BELIEVE
IF YE BELIEVE
IF YE BELIEVE
IF YE BELIEVE
IF YE BELIEVE
IF YE BELEIVE with all your heart ..................................YE MAY BE BAPTIZED .
SO now the question that begs to get asked and answered is this . A baby barley knows how to suckle on a teet
HOW ON EARTH DOES IT BELEIVE IN JESUS CHRIST . THE POPES are false , the RCC is false
and i refuse to apologize even once .
IF ONE BELIEVETH NOT on CHRIST then the water baptism means NOTHING . NADA , and ZILCH .

 

[amigo de christo]

That's all you've got? Against inspired scripture you offer one text that says such and such "and his family" were baptized. That doesn't necessarily include infants. Particularly when other inspired scripture such as Romans 6 reveals the entire purpose of baptism which cannot apply to infants.
And you are such a hypocrite when accusing others of "listening to their men" while your church admonishes Catholics to listen to their men only. That if the church teaches the snow is green, the Catholic must believe it, not his own senses, or his personal convictions, permitted to enter into the equation. I believe that what you are doing is a type of reverse psychology. The issue you have with protestants isn't that they listen to their men... You are simply amplifying that, like telling people to go to the lowest side of a sinking ship... The issue you have is the Catholic issue with Protestantism since the reformation... That protestants determine for themselves what is truth with the aid of the holy Spirit. This truth... This doctrine, is what caused Catholicism to bleed from every orifice. And finally the common people were able to learn for themselves what Catholicism is truly all about. And so protestants emigrated across the world and enriched every nation where they made a home.

BIBLICAL TRUTH will expose them every time . This gringo , by grace , BEEN DUG IN THAT BIBLE FOR YEARS upon Years .
ready daily and loving daily them holy words . But then that is why many a protestant and many a catholic
Hateth me . Enjoy the early modern english for the word hate .
BIBLE and TIME . let the words ring pure and true and get them noses into them bibles FOLKS . cause many decievers
have abounded and many decievers decieve and have been deceiving folks for centuries , years and daily .
BIBLE and TIME folks .

 

[Marymog]

That's all you've got? Against inspired scripture you offer one text that says such and such "and his family" were baptized. That doesn't necessarily include infants. Particularly when other inspired scripture such as Romans 6 reveals the entire purpose of baptism which cannot apply to infants.
And you are such a hypocrite when accusing others of "listening to their men" while your church admonishes Catholics to listen to their men only. That if the church teaches the snow is green, the Catholic must believe it, not his own senses, or his personal convictions, permitted to enter into the equation. I believe that what you are doing is a type of reverse psychology. The issue you have with protestants isn't that they listen to their men... You are simply amplifying that, like telling people to go to the lowest side of a sinking ship... The issue you have is the Catholic issue with Protestantism since the reformation... That protestants determine for themselves what is truth with the aid of the holy Spirit. This truth... This doctrine, is what caused Catholicism to bleed from every orifice. And finally the common people were able to learn for themselves what Catholicism is truly all about. And so protestants emigrated across the world and enriched every nation where they made a home.

Nope, you are wrong ONCE AGAIN......There is more than just "one text"........there are several references of the baptizing of entire families in Scripture. Which means that HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of families were baptized during that time since not all are recorded. But according to your theory no infants were in those families?

If you don't listen to other men then you are listening to yourself kiddo..........

 

[Marymog]

Ever considered you might be lying to?

I don't adhere to what I believe. I adhere to what The Church teaches. And since The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth........then I know it's not lying.

You adhere to what you have taught yourself.

 

[amigo de christo]

Nope, you are wrong ONCE AGAIN......There is more than just "one text"........there are several references of the baptizing of entire families in Scripture. Which means that HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of families were baptized during that time since not all are recorded. But according to your theory no infants were in those families?

If you don't listen to other men then you are listening to yourself kiddo..........

Ya been duped . You are kidding yourself , though i wont say KIDDO .
baptism belongs to one group and one group alone
And if you would bother to read the bible instead of RCC doctrine YOU WOULD SEE and know this .
SO , i will take us back in time to a time long ago and in a land far away .
A man , a enauch had went up to JERSUALEM to worship .
HE was returning from it and heading back to EYGPT .
Phillip was called by GOD , by the SPIRIT , to go to this man .
SO the eunach was struggling to understand the prophet ISSAIH in chapter fifty three .
Now to make a long story short
PHILLIP preached JESUS TO this enuach of queen candance . YEAH ITS IN THE BIBLE .
And anway suddenly they saw water .
Now the eunach asks a very IMPORTANT question . SEE , HERE IS WATER
what does HINDER ME . take note , HINDER ME from being baptized .
PHILLIP DIDNT SAY , OH NUTTING BUD here let me pope phillip just baptize thee and all is well .
NO mam . NOT What HE SAID AT ALL .
NOT what he said at all . PHILLIP actually ANSWERED that man , that eunach .
WITH A BIG FAT IF .
AND I SUGGEST we all take HEED to that IF and what FOLLOWED IT .
IF YE BELIEVE with the whole heart ...............................
YE MAY BE BAPTIZED . EIGHT DAY OLD INFANTS can barley cling to the TEET let alone BELEIVE .
YOU ALL been duped my friend . SO allow me some parting words .
I DO BELIEVE FOLKS SHOULD BE WATER BATPIZED , but if one believeth not ITS about as useful or useless as TEETS on a boar hog .
PS a boar hog is MALE . NOT MUCH USE FOR THOSE TEETS BUD ROW .

 

[amigo de christo]

Now let all that has breath return to those bibles and read and learn . Growing in the truth of GOD .
And let all praise and thank the LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

That's all you've got? Against inspired scripture you offer one text that says such and such "and his family" were baptized. That doesn't necessarily include infants. Particularly when other inspired scripture such as Romans 6 reveals the entire purpose of baptism which cannot apply to infants.
And you are such a hypocrite when accusing others of "listening to their men" while your church admonishes Catholics to listen to their men only. That if the church teaches the snow is green, the Catholic must believe it, not his own senses, or his personal convictions, permitted to enter into the equation. I believe that what you are doing is a type of reverse psychology. The issue you have with protestants isn't that they listen to their men... You are simply amplifying that, like telling people to go to the lowest side of a sinking ship... The issue you have is the Catholic issue with Protestantism since the reformation... That protestants determine for themselves what is truth with the aid of the holy Spirit. This truth... This doctrine, is what caused Catholicism to bleed from every orifice. And finally the common people were able to learn for themselves what Catholicism is truly all about. And so protestants emigrated across the world and enriched every nation where they made a home.

Never , ever , evah ever follow the voice of the harlot who crieth unto the children
COME YE and buy the stolen waters that are so sweet to the taste . For her waters are the death that leadeth unto the second death .
And those who enter into her chambers know not , understand not , percieve not that the dead are within
and that her chambers lead only unto death .

 

[Marymog]

Ya been duped . You are kidding yourself , though i wont say KIDDO .
baptism belongs to one group and one group alone
And if you would bother to read the bible instead of RCC doctrine YOU WOULD SEE and know this .
SO , i will take us back in time to a time long ago and in a land far away .
A man , a enauch had went up to JERSUALEM to worship .
HE was returning from it and heading back to EYGPT .
Phillip was called by GOD , by the SPIRIT , to go to this man .
SO the eunach was struggling to understand the prophet ISSAIH in chapter fifty three .
Now to make a long story short
PHILLIP preached JESUS TO this enuach of queen candance . YEAH ITS IN THE BIBLE .
And anway suddenly they saw water .
Now the eunach asks a very IMPORTANT question . SEE , HERE IS WATER
what does HINDER ME . take note , HINDER ME from being baptized .
PHILLIP DIDNT SAY , OH NUTTING BUD here let me pope phillip just baptize thee and all is well .
NO mam . NOT What HE SAID AT ALL .
NOT what he said at all . PHILLIP actually ANSWERED that man , that eunach .
WITH A BIG FAT IF .
AND I SUGGEST we all take HEED to that IF and what FOLLOWED IT .
IF YE BELIEVE with the whole heart ...............................
YE MAY BE BAPTIZED . EIGHT DAY OLD INFANTS can barley cling to the TEET let alone BELEIVE .
YOU ALL been duped my friend . SO allow me some parting words .
I DO BELIEVE FOLKS SHOULD BE WATER BATPIZED , but if one believeth not ITS about as useful or useless as TEETS on a boar hog .
PS a boar hog is MALE . NOT MUCH USE FOR THOSE TEETS BUD ROW .

got it........no infants in entire families that were baptized....only adults..... AND the promise is for adults only, not children (Acts 2:39).....You would be right but Scripture and Christian history prove you and the men who taught you that lie wrong.

 

[Behold]

I adhere to what The Church teaches.

"False".

Female Member is making the false assumption that the creator of the "Dark Ages"... the same who burned Joan of Arc to death, then later rechristened her as their "Saint'......is the actual "Church".

This same "church" , was originally titled "the cult of Mary", by its own "Church Fathers" around 5ad .
Today they hope you dont find this out.
(She hasn't yet).
This same "church" prohibited personal bible reading, until they changed that rule, in '1961.

And, The Salvation of God, this "church" teaches,= is "water based", as if water has the power to wash your sins away.

They also teach that their Priests have "magic powers".... (Research Transubstantiation for the update).

Here is their Queen..
-
-

 

[The Learner]

I don't adhere to what I believe. I adhere to what The Church teaches. And since The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth........then I know it's not lying.

You adhere to what you have taught yourself.

1 TIMOTHY 3:15
KJ21
but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou ought to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[The Learner]

got it........no infants in entire families that were baptized....only adults..... AND the promise is for adults only, not children (Acts 2:39).....You would be right but Scripture and Christian history prove you and the men who taught you that lie wrong.

"In which he refutes those who maintain, that Adam must have died even if he had never sinned; and that nothing of his sin has been transmitted to his posterity by natural descent. He also shows, that death has not accrued to man by any necessity of his nature, but as the penalty of sin; He then proceeds to prove that in Adam's sin his entire offspring is implicated, showing that infants are baptized for the express purpose of receiving the remission of original sin.
...
It may therefore be correctly affirmed, that such infants as quit the body without being baptized will be involved in the mildest condemnation of all.
...

They, therefore, who say that the reason why infants are baptized, is, that they may have the remission of the sin which they have themselves committed in their life, not what they have derived from Adam, may be refuted without much difficulty. For whenever these persons shall have reflected within themselves a little, uninfluenced by any polemical spirit, on the absurdity of their statement, how unworthy it is, in fact, of serious discussion, they will at once change their opinion. But if they will not do this, we shall not so completely despair of men's common sense, as to have any fears that they will induce others to adopt their views. They are themselves driven to adopt their opinion, if I am not mistaken, by their prejudice for some other theory; and it is because they feel themselves obliged to allow that sins are remitted to the baptized, and are unwilling to allow that the sin was derived from Adam which they admit to be remitted to infants, that they have been obliged to charge infancy itself with actual sin; as if by bringing this charge against infancy a man could become the more secure himself, when accused and unable to answer his assailant! However, let us, as I suggested, pass by such opponents as these; indeed, we require neither words nor quotations of Scripture to prove the sinlessness of infants, so far as their conduct in life is concerned; this life they spend, such is the recency of their birth, within their very selves, since it escapes the cognizance of human perception, which has no data or support whereon to sustain any controversy on the subject.

Chapter 23 [XVIII.]— He Refutes Those Who Allege that Infants are Baptized Not for the Remission of Sins, But for the Obtaining of the Kingdom of Heaven.
But those persons raise a question, and appear to adduce an argument deserving of consideration and discussion, who say that new-born infants receive baptism not for the remission of sin, but that, since their procreation is not spiritual, they may be created in Christ, and become partakers of the kingdom of heaven, and by the same means children and heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ." CHURCH FATHERS: On Merit and the Forgiveness of Sins, and the Baptism of Infants, Book I (Augustine)

 

[The Learner]

"False".

Female Member is making the false assumption that the creator of the "Dark Ages"... the same who burned Joan of Arc to death, then later rechristened her as their "Saint'......is the actual "Church".

This same "church" , was originally titled "the cult of Mary", by its own "Church Fathers" around 5ad .
Today they hope you dont find this out.
(She hasn't yet).
This same "church" prohibited personal bible reading, until they changed that rule, in '1961.

And, The Salvation of God, this "church" teaches,= is "water based", as if water has the power to wash your sins away.

They also teach that their Priests have "magic powers".... (Research Transubstantiation for the update).

Here is their Queen..
-
-
View attachment 36043

I googled the cult of mary newadvent.org and did not find any Church Father referring to the cult of mary. Maybe, I missed one.

The Link the cult of mary newadvent.org - Google Search

 

[amigo de christo]

got it........no infants in entire families that were baptized....only adults..... AND the promise is for adults only, not children (Acts 2:39).....You would be right but Scripture and Christian history prove you and the men who taught you that lie wrong.

For BELIEVERS .

 

[amigo de christo]

"False".

Female Member is making the false assumption that the creator of the "Dark Ages"... the same who burned Joan of Arc to death, then later rechristened her as their "Saint'......is the actual "Church".

This same "church" , was originally titled "the cult of Mary", by its own "Church Fathers" around 5ad .
Today they hope you dont find this out.
(She hasn't yet).
This same "church" prohibited personal bible reading, until they changed that rule, in '1961.

And, The Salvation of God, this "church" teaches,= is "water based", as if water has the power to wash your sins away.

They also teach that their Priests have "magic powers".... (Research Transubstantiation for the update).

Here is their Queen..
-
-
View attachment 36043

Run as fast as those feet can carry you far from the harlots den . Lambs follow JESUS .

 

[Marymog]

For BELIEVERS .

Lol....Scripture says opposite of your opinion.