Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[Eternally Grateful]

None of your posts have refuted the Bible.

It is sad that you do not believe the Bible;

---

Do tell me where Jesus told Nicodemus to get baptized in John 3 when he told him HOW to be born again

I will wait patiently

 

[Grailhunter]

I respectfully disagree with your premise. I agree that in the eyes of men, a "Christian" is water-baptized, and I agree that water baptism was required by the early church. However, water baptism is not a means to grace as you suggest. There is no guarantee that the person who comes out of the baptismal pool is a new person with a clean slate. Water baptism is representational -- a public testimony that the initiate pledges to follow Jesus. But that testimony may be true or it may be false. What matters is what God sees.

The blessing of justification falls on those who have an honest spirit and a contrite heart. (Romans 4, Psalm 32:2, Psalm 51:16-17)

What are the guarantees for anything? If you do what the Bible says there is a guarantee if not, there is no guarantee.
How many Christians wonder if they are save? Is there gauge....a popup timer? The gauge is about doing what you told to do....if not you are in no man's land.

The Bible tells you what you need to do to be saved.....but until the new age movement people did not questions it.

Where are the lines of demarcation? belief and faith, is there gauge for that? What does it mean to believe and have faith? Follow Christ and obey Him? Christ said, Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say

Does the Bible say you can be saved without repentance? Does the Bible say you can be saved without water baptism? Does the Bible say you can get to Heaven without performing the Bread and Wine ritual? Again the Bible tells you what to do, questioning it, is questioning God.

These things Christ told us to do, but now the higher authority of the new age movement has redefined the Way to salvation. You are not disagreeing with me, you and the new age movement are disagreeing with Christ and the Apostles. What are you going to do next re-write the Bible.....make up your own morals.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Does the Bible say you can be saved without repentance?

No

Does the Bible say you can be saved without water baptism?

yes

Does the Bible say you can get to Heaven without performing the Bread and Wine ritual?

yes

Again the Bible tells you what to do, questioning it, is questioning God.

Who is questioning God?

These things Christ told us to do, but now the higher authority of the new age movement has redefined the Way to salvation. You are not disagreeing with me, you and the new age movement are disagreeing with Christ and the Apostles. What are you going to do next re-write the Bible.....make up your own morals.

God told us to do alot of things.. But it still takes perfection to save ourselves. The wage of sin is death.. That is why blood had to be shed for remission.

The gift of God is eternal life. It can;t be earned by obeying some ceremony or ritual. it can;t be earned by doing anything.. To say so is to teach a false gospel. You would think after pauls many warnings to the legalistic jews the church would have figured this out. Sadly. they fell under the same trap..

 

[CadyandZoe]

What are the guarantees for anything? If you do what the Bible says there is a guarantee if not, there is no guarantee.
How many Christians wonder if they are save? Is there gauge....a popup timer? The gauge is about doing what you told to do....if not you are in no man's land.

Yes, there is a "popup timer" of a sort. Three apostles refer to the testing of our faith. (James 1:2, 1 Peter 1:6-7, Romans 5:3-5) Paul draws a straight, unbroken line from "tribulations" to "hope" and he says that hope will not disappoint for those in whom God has poured out the Holy Spirit in the heart.

The Bible tells you what you need to do to be saved.....but until the new age movement people did not questions it.

I understand your concern, but I don't want to come across as defensive. Instead, I'd like to share an interesting theme from the Bible. It highlights the difference between "principle keepers" and "rule keepers." The latter only value one virtue - constancy, meaning they always follow the rules without questioning them. They don't judge their actions based on right and wrong but rather on whether or not they followed the rules. Regardless of why God gave us the rules, all that matters to them is if they obeyed them.

Where are the lines of demarcation? belief and faith, is there gauge for that? What does it mean to believe and have faith? Follow Christ and obey Him? Christ said, Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say

The aim of a "principle-keeper" is to gain wisdom from God and live a life that aligns with His values, preferences, desires, and dislikes. Such an individual loves what God loves, detests what God detests, and desires what God desires. If breaking a rule is necessary to love someone as God does, then the principle-keeper will do so without hesitation. In my opinion, Jesus was not a mere rule-keeper but a principle-keeper.

Does the Bible say you can be saved without repentance? Does the Bible say you can be saved without water baptism? Does the Bible say you can get to Heaven without performing the Bread and Wine ritual? Again the Bible tells you what to do, questioning it, is questioning God.

The Bible does not suggest that God rewards those who have a higher score. Following all the rules is not the path to salvation. According to the Bible, God decides whom to save. It all begins with the Holy Spirit moving in our hearts, coupled with hearing the gospel and accepting that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. As we continue to walk in the Lord, empowered by his teachings, the Holy Spirit guides us. Our minds are renewed, and we gain wisdom and insight.

These things Christ told us to do, but now the higher authority of the new age movement has redefined the Way to salvation. You are not disagreeing with me, you and the new age movement are disagreeing with Christ and the Apostles. What are you going to do next re-write the Bible.....make up your own morals.

Before we can know whether someone is teaching something different than Christ and the Apostles, we must first understand what they actually taught. The world is filled with disparate voices. Be careful whom you follow. :)

 

[atpollard]

That's ok......i will stick with the Bible as support.

Why would you listen to me....it is the Bible you are hearing...not me? Geesscch. I did not write the Bible. God had it written the way He wanted it presented.

[Your OPINIONS and total lack of SCRIPTURE support, as well as your FAILURE to address the scripture I provided ... is noted.]

"That being the case, until you decide to address the actual points raised and scripture presented in post #1,474, this conversation between us is [still] on indefinite [PAUSE]."

from #1474:

Yes it is [baptism is required], but scripture clarifies "made without human hands":

• Colossians 2:11-15 [NKJV] 11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with [Him] through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

... It is the ONE BAPTISM that saves:

• Ephesians 4:4-6 [NKJV] 4 [There is] one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

... it is performed in SPIRIT and by the Holy Spirit:

• John 3:5-8 [NKJV] 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8 "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, there is a "popup timer" of a sort. Three apostles refer to the testing of our faith. (James 1:2, 1 Peter 1:6-7, Romans 5:3-5) Paul draws a straight, unbroken line from "tribulations" to "hope" and he says that hope will not disappoint for those in whom God has poured out the Holy Spirit in the heart.

I understand your concern, but I don't want to come across as defensive. Instead, I'd like to share an interesting theme from the Bible. It highlights the difference between "principle keepers" and "rule keepers." The latter only value one virtue - constancy, meaning they always follow the rules without questioning them. They don't judge their actions based on right and wrong but rather on whether or not they followed the rules. Regardless of why God gave us the rules, all that matters to them is if they obeyed them.




The aim of a "principle-keeper" is to gain wisdom from God and live a life that aligns with His values, preferences, desires, and dislikes. Such an individual loves what God loves, detests what God detests, and desires what God desires. If breaking a rule is necessary to love someone as God does, then the principle-keeper will do so without hesitation. In my opinion, Jesus was not a mere rule-keeper but a principle-keeper.

The Bible does not suggest that God rewards those who have a higher score. Following all the rules is not the path to salvation. According to the Bible, God decides whom to save. It all begins with the Holy Spirit moving in our hearts, coupled with hearing the gospel and accepting that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. As we continue to walk in the Lord, empowered by his teachings, the Holy Spirit guides us. Our minds are renewed, and we gain wisdom and insight.

Before we can know whether someone is teaching something different than Christ and the Apostles, we must first understand what they actually taught. The world is filled with disparate voices. Be careful whom you follow. :)

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, there is a "popup timer" of a sort. Three apostles refer to the testing of our faith. (James 1:2, 1 Peter 1:6-7, Romans 5:3-5) Paul draws a straight, unbroken line from "tribulations" to "hope" and he says that hope will not disappoint for those in whom God has poured out the Holy Spirit in the heart.

I understand your concern, but I don't want to come across as defensive. Instead, I'd like to share an interesting theme from the Bible. It highlights the difference between "principle keepers" and "rule keepers." The latter only value one virtue - constancy, meaning they always follow the rules without questioning them. They don't judge their actions based on right and wrong but rather on whether or not they followed the rules. Regardless of why God gave us the rules, all that matters to them is if they obeyed them.




The aim of a "principle-keeper" is to gain wisdom from God and live a life that aligns with His values, preferences, desires, and dislikes. Such an individual loves what God loves, detests what God detests, and desires what God desires. If breaking a rule is necessary to love someone as God does, then the principle-keeper will do so without hesitation. In my opinion, Jesus was not a mere rule-keeper but a principle-keeper.

The Bible does not suggest that God rewards those who have a higher score. Following all the rules is not the path to salvation. According to the Bible, God decides whom to save. It all begins with the Holy Spirit moving in our hearts, coupled with hearing the gospel and accepting that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. As we continue to walk in the Lord, empowered by his teachings, the Holy Spirit guides us. Our minds are renewed, and we gain wisdom and insight.

Before we can know whether someone is teaching something different than Christ and the Apostles, we must first understand what they actually taught. The world is filled with disparate voices. Be careful whom you follow. :)

What ya got here is a soup sandwich.
Mostly along the lines of OSAS....in other words your going to do what you want and you do not care what God says and then be silly enough to think you are going to Heaven....Good luck on that.

 

[gpresdo]

No, we need only conclude that you are not "listening", but only "waiting to speak". [There is a difference.]

That being the case, until you decide to address the actual points raised and scripture presented in post #1,474, this conversation between us is on indefinite [PAUSE].

I respectfully disagree with your premise. I agree that in the eyes of men, a "Christian" is water-baptized, and I agree that water baptism was required by the early church. However, water baptism is not a means to grace as you suggest. There is no guarantee that the person who comes out of the baptismal pool is a new person with a clean slate. Water baptism is representational -- a public testimony that the initiate pledges to follow Jesus. But that testimony may be true or it may be false. What matters is what God sees.

The blessing of justification falls on those who have an honest spirit and a contrite heart. (Romans 4, Psalm 32:2, Psalm 51:16-17)

Wrong...then you have the same question of effect after a person repents.
Baptism is ALSO sin cleansing.

 

[CadyandZoe]

What ya got here is a soup sandwich.
Mostly along the lines of OSAS....in other words your going to do what you want and you do not care what God says and then be silly enough to think you are going to Heaven....Good luck on that.

Amazing. Exactly 100% of what you just said is wrong.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Wrong...then you have the same question of effect after a person repents.
Baptism is ALSO sin cleansing.

I don't understand you. You can try thinking about the subject, about what you want to say, and using complete sentences.

 

[Grailhunter]

Amazing. Exactly 100% of what you just said is wrong.

LOL As they say.....Bulls-eye!

 

[gpresdo]

I don't understand you. You can try thinking about the subject, about what you want to say, and using complete sentences.

Those sentences are not ...dangling participles...lol....study them...they are complete. You just don't like the content ...I conclude.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints is the meat of the gospel, whereby the believer gains confidence and wisdom over time.

 

[gpresdo]

No, we need only conclude that you are not "listening", but only "waiting to speak". [There is a difference.]

That being the case, until you decide to address the actual points raised and scripture presented in post #1,474, this conversation between us is on indefinite [PAUSE].

I listen well...you just don't like God's word and want to change it.

 

[gpresdo]

No

yes

yes

Who is questioning God?

God told us to do alot of things.. But it still takes perfection to save ourselves. The wage of sin is death.. That is why blood had to be shed for remission.

The gift of God is eternal life. It can;t be earned by obeying some ceremony or ritual. it can;t be earned by doing anything.. To say so is to teach a false gospel. You would think after pauls many warnings to the legalistic jews the church would have figured this out. Sadly. they fell under the same trap..

Show where the Bible says baptism is not required for being born again.?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Show where the Bible says baptism is not required for being born again.?

Here is Jesus telling nicodemus (and us) how to be born again.

John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of Go

please show me the word baptize

 

[CadyandZoe]

Show where the Bible says baptism is not required for being born again.?

Nicodemus asks, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” We interpret Jesus' response in light of Nicodemus' question. What "water" is associated with the mother's womb? Amniotic fluid. To be born of water indicates being born of a woman.

 

[gpresdo]

Here is Jesus telling nicodemus (and us) how to be born again.

John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of Go

please show me the word baptize

Please show me the word ...repent?
Show me many words that are not contained in that diatribe pertaining to eternal salvation.
HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU NEED GOD TO TELL US TO BE BAPTIZED?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Please show me the word ...repent?
Show me many words that are not contained in that diatribe pertaining to eternal salvation.
HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU NEED GOD TO TELL US TO BE BAPTIZED?

You will not look up at the serpent unless you first believe.

no one will have faith unless they repent.

How many times do i need god to tell us to baptized to be born again and given eternal life?

well he would have to say it when he tells us how.. the fact he did not should lead us to lean away from that as a requirment.

You misrepresenting or misinterpreting a few passages is not going to help you.

In fact, if I remember right. Jesus only said it once concerning water baptism. But he did nto say get baptize. But to baptize disciples you make.. while he did mention that whoever believes and is baptized in mark . Nothing in the passage shows it is water baptism he speaks of.

Most of the time he speaks of baptism it is concerning the baptism of his death and the baptism the disciples would also be baptised with and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[gpresdo]

You will not look up at the serpent unless you first believe.

no one will have faith unless they repent.

How many times do i need god to tell us to baptized to be born again and given eternal life?

well he would have to say it when he tells us how.. the fact he did not should lead us to lean away from that as a requirment.

You misrepresenting or misinterpreting a few passages is not going to help you.

In fact, if I remember right. Jesus only said it once concerning water baptism. But he did nto say get baptize. But to baptize disciples you make.. while he did mention that whoever believes and is baptized in mark . Nothing in the passage shows it is water baptism he speaks of.

Most of the time he speaks of baptism it is concerning the baptism of his death and the baptism the disciples would also be baptised with and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

You are just trying to convolute God's word.
Baptism is required just as repentance is required....