Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[Grailhunter]

Respectfully, I disagree. We are “born from above” by ”water and the spirit” and per John 3, this is a work of the Holy Spirit. That makes “water” an ORDINANCE (something commanded for obedience - a symbolic remembrance) rather than a SACRAMENT (an action that conveys supernatural power).

A BAPTIST vs CATHOLIC understanding of the text and the reality that text describes. God saves, water washes off dirt and symbolizes death, burial and resurrection.

Well we are not really disagreeing.

The question asked is.....Does spirit baptism replace water baptism....the Answer....absolutely not.

But when we get into the depth of all this, it does not matter if it is the power of faith, baptism, or the Bread and Wine ritual....do we know or can we comprehend all that is going on with the rituals and between us and Heaven.

Water baptism is spiritual baptism....and as with all the above.....the power comes from God. And there are physical aspect of all the above....even faith....if we have faith it changes us....we are believers and followers of Christ....which means we worship Him and love Him and love one another and be good and do good....And you can tell that baptism is a personal thing because of how we receive the Holy Spirit can differ between individuals.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1st Peter3:21

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Acts 22:16

16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Sadly, like many jew who could not get off circumcision.

I fear you will never get it.

 

[gpresdo]

That is a great quote.

Since it is..."great"..... What does it mean?

 

[gpresdo]

Respectfully, I disagree. We are “born from above” by ”water and the spirit” and per John 3, this is a work of the Holy Spirit. That makes “water” an ORDINANCE (something commanded for obedience - a symbolic remembrance) rather than a SACRAMENT (an action that conveys supernatural power).

A BAPTIST vs CATHOLIC understanding of the text and the reality that text describes. God saves, water washes off dirt and symbolizes death, burial and resurrection.

Wrong...it washed dirt under the OT but as scriptures tell us baptism is required for sin cleansing under the NT.

 

[MatthewG]

It’s so amazing how many people are so divided on this one subject.

I think it’s personally great to have water baptism for the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the one that will baptize you in the Holy Spirit and fire, whether you go underwater or not. It’s about the circumcision of the heart.

Yahava looks at the heart while people look on the outward appearance of man.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I am confused how anyone gets baptism in John 3.

1. Jesus said, Unless a man is born again...(a second time, born from above)
2. He then explains there must be two births.. one of water (flesh) and one of spirit (spirit).
3. The second birth is what Jesus means when he said one must be born again

we are all spiritually dead, in Adam all die.

we who were dead in trespasses and sin were made live....

this is that new birth or regeneration Jesus was speaking of.

Water baptism is not even in the mind of Jesus when he says these things.. In fact, after he tells him WHAT it means, He tells him HOW to be born again.

and not one time did he mention water baptism.

 

[Ritajanice]

I am confused how anyone gets baptism in John 3.

1. Jesus said, Unless a man is born again...(a second time, born from above)
2. He then explains there must be two births.. one of water (flesh) and one of spirit (spirit).
3. The second birth is what Jesus means when he said one must be born again

we are all spiritually dead, in Adam all die.

we who were dead in trespasses and sin were made live....

this is that new birth or regeneration Jesus was speaking of.

Water baptism is not even in the mind of Jesus when he says these things.. In fact, after he tells him WHAT it means, He tells him HOW to be born again.

and not one time did he mention water baptism.

I know we must be “ Birthed supernaturally in the Spirit “.

I’m just confused by this scripture.,,can you help me understand what it means?

Acts 2:38 ESV / 4,289 helpful votes​

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Oops, sorry wrong scripture.

Here it is..

​

◄ John 3:5 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. It says born of water, well, surely that’s the flesh birth.....? Born of water...a woman carries a baby, protected in water in the womb. Amniotic fluid protects the foetus.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I know we must be “ Birthed supernaturally in the Spirit “.

I’m just confused by this scripture.,,can you help me understand what it means?

Acts 2:38 ESV / 4,289 helpful votes​

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Oops, sorry wrong scripture.

Here it is..

​

◄ John 3:5 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. It says born of water, well, surely that’s the flesh birth.....?

What did Jesus tell Nicodemus he must do to be born again?

that's what I would look at to determine what Jesus means

 

[Ritajanice]

What did Jesus tell Nicodemus he must do to be born again?

that's what I would look at to determine what Jesus means

I agree, we must be birthed in the Spirit...then we are Born Again, a supernatural spiritual birth that only God can do, through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Mind Blowing isn’t it?

It certainly blew my mind when God birthed me in the Spirit....I know everyone has different experiences with becoming Born Again.

John 3:8​

“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree, we must be birthed in the Spirit...then we are Born Again, a supernatural spiritual birth that only God can do, through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Mind Blowing isn’t it?

It certainly blew my mind when God birthed me in the Spirit....I know everyone has different experiences with becoming Born Again.

John 3:8​

“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

that which is born of flesh is flesh

that which is born of spirit is spirit.

It confuses me how so many people do not understand this basic concept of the gospel.

 

[Ritajanice]

that which is born of flesh is flesh

that which is born of spirit is spirit.

It confuses me how so many people do not understand this basic concept of the gospel.

Amen!!....you just confirmed God’s word...thank you.....I never doubt my being born again.....but, God knows how I doubt understanding some scripture at times....he imo/ belief, confirmed his word and what it meant through you...I need that at times......thank you Lord!!....

I guess you are more confident in that area of understanding than I was....I am confident now on what it means ,after reading your post....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen!!....you just confirmed God’s word...thank you.....I never doubt my being born again.....but, God knows how I doubt understanding some scripture at times....he imo/ belief, confirmed his word and what it meant through you...I need that at times......thank you Lord!!....

I guess you are more confident in that area of understanding than I was....I am confident now on what it means ,after reading your post....

there are some passages that just get to us.. But I have learned to make the bible so it does not contradict.

I may not understand a passage, but I can know if it makes other parts of the bible contradict.. I just accept I do not understand it.

Acts 2 and James 2 had me stumped for years.. When i finally understood them it was like a light came on.. Until then. I just acknowledged I did not understand what they were saying

 

[atpollard]

Since it is..."great"..... What does it mean?

Exactly what you think it means (and disagree with) ... NO BAPTISMAL REGENERATION!

 

[atpollard]

Wrong...it washed dirt under the OT but as scriptures tell us baptism is required for sin cleansing under the NT.

Yes it is, but scripture clarifies "made without human hands":

• Colossians 2:11-15 [NKJV] 11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with [Him] through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

... It is the ONE BAPTISM that saves:

• Ephesians 4:4-6 [NKJV] 4 [There is] one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

... it is performed in SPIRIT and by the Holy Spirit:

• John 3:5-8 [NKJV] 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8 "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

 

[Ritajanice]

there are some passages that just get to us.. But I have learned to make the bible so it does not contradict.

I may not understand a passage, but I can know if it makes other parts of the bible contradict.. I just accept I do not understand it.

Acts 2 and James 2 had me stumped for years.. When i finally understood them it was like a light came on.. Until then. I just acknowledged I did not understand what they were saying

This last post you wrote...makes perfect sense to me.....that’s exactly how it is for me...

That’s helped me no end as well...thank you Brother and thank you Lord.

 

[Marymog]

Mary you should follow your own advise......learn history.

The Catholic Church killed tens of thousands......But did it? Did the Pope and the Bishops take their swords and get on horses and go out and kill people? No, that is not really the point. Today we have separation of Church and State...not so back then. Most countries and or kingdoms took orders from the Catholic Church. People were killed or imprisoned by order of the Catholic Church. Then you had the inquisitions and witch hunts, but even then when priests and monks witnessed and documented the tortures and deaths....they did not touch the victims.....they let someone else do the dirty work.

Now as far as the Bible....Emperor Constantine ordered the first bound Bibles....mid 4th century...the Fifty Bibles of Constantine...hand written and illustrated.....but none were given out to the congregations ...and that is the way it was until the 17th century. The invention of the Guttenberg Press and the Protestant reform pretty much blew the lid off of that.

Now as far as killing people for translating the Bible and distributing the Bibles....there is a lot of historical evidence to this but again the priests did not march out and kill people for having Bibles. And again most European countries obeyed the Catholic Church so they made it illegal to translate the Bible or print it. Even William Tyndale who translated the Bible and smuggled Bibles, was not killed by a priest....He was killed because the Catholic Church had the countries make it illegal to produce and distribute Bibles.

Historical notes....
When Queen Mary, or “Bloody Mary,” came to the throne in the 1550s. She wanted to return England to the Roman Catholic Church, and thus it again became illegal to print English Bibles. Hundreds of Protestants lost their lives and many fled to Europe, a number ending up in Geneva, Switzerland.

And do not forget the Thirty Year War between the Catholics and Protestants....look it up

And again it is true that the Catholic Church wanted complete control the Bible. They had 1250 years to give their congregations Bibles....and they did not until they lost control of it. I went to Catholic schools and college and in college I could buy Bibles but when I was a kid there were no Bibles available in a Catholic school for kids.

There are a lot of good things that the Protestant reform did for the world and dethroning the Catholic Church was just one of them. And our founding fathers were smart enough to learn from history and insisted on separation of Church and State.

Hi Grailhunter,

Thank you. In a previous post this is what Bible Highlighter said:

No offense, but I believe history when it talks about how Catholics used to kill even their own if they attempted to take the Scriptures to read for themselves. This is part of the reason why the Catholics wanted to kill King James and the translators of the KJB with a super bomb. They wanted to kill them while they were translating it. Seeing that did not work, the Catholics changed tactics. Instead of killing people, they set out to take the Word of God away from people without taking a life. The Vatican made a league with the United Bible Societies in the formation of the Nestle and Aland Critical New Testament Greek text (Which is where all Modern Bibles come from). They used the Westcott and Hort text (Who were also into Catholicism) as one of their stronger textual sources. This was all an attempt to get men away from the King James Bible and it worked. Even the Catholic book that mentions forbidden works says that the King James Bible is among the list of forbidden works to read. Of course, they changed this so as to hide what they were really up to. But the book of forbidden writings still exists. I can show a scan of it for you here. Catholics even have told me that I cannot understand Scripture. They said I need a Catholic priest to help me to understand it. This again is a modern day tactic to get people away from the Word of God. That’s why you don’t know that statue bowing is idolatry, and why praying to the dead saints is Necromancy.

Do you, Grailhunter, agree with Bible Highlighter? Because everything you wrote to me had NOTHING to do with what Bible Highlighter said...


Also, I stated to Bible Highlighter that "The Church didn't kill people for reading Scripture. That is a complete lie. You should learn Christian history....". That statement apparently is what instigated your off the subject rant to me. You didn't even address the subject in your rant. Would you care to address the subject at hand.....


Mary

 

[DJT_47]

Sadly, like many jew who could not get off circumcision.

I fear you will never get it.

Plain and simple English. I fear you can't read and understand. You are not disagreeing with me! What I quoted were not my words or thoughts, but rather those of the writers of the bible, inspired of God. That's who you are in disagreement with.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Plain and simple English. I fear you can't read and understand. You are not disagreeing with me! What I quoted were not my words or thoughts, but rather those of the writers of the bible, inspired of God. That's who you are in disagreement with.

The bible was not written in english

if you want to have your eternity based on an english translation. Feel free.

Otherwise. you will study the word and see what is really true.

My comment stands, You are no better than a jew trying to add Circumcision (the OT form of water baptism which represented cleansing)

and I fear you will suffer the same fate

 

[gpresdo]

Exactly what you think it means (and disagree with) ... NO BAPTISMAL REGENERATION!

OH...then u do not believe in the Bible.
This is a bible forum.

 

[DJT_47]

The bible was not written in english

if you want to have your eternity based on an english translation. Feel free.

Otherwise. you will study the word and see what is really true.

My comment stands, You are no better than a jew trying to add Circumcision (the OT form of water baptism which represented cleansing)

and I fear you will suffer the same fate

Goodbye, I'm done with you. You make NO sense and don't know what you're talking about.