Christian baker and transgender cake lawsuit

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
4,862
2,899
113
64
New Brunswick
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
They are no more christain than the devil is . Just cause they try and claim to be .
REMEMBER , christains do not IDENTIFY with SIN . ANY SIN . DO KEEP THAT IN MIND .
The klan is wicked , they may try and identify as christain , HECK a lot of false ones do .
BUT they aint . Not at all .
PS christains dont identify with sin , the klan does .
SInce we are on that reminder , Same goes with ANY SIN BUDDY .
there is no such thing as GAY CHRISTIAIN either .
We are dead to sin , NOT IDENDTIFYING WITH SIN . DO take care to LEARN THAT TOO .

Absolutely!

Dead to Sin, Alive to God​

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be [a]done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been [b]freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, [c]reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
  • Love
Reactions: amigo de christo

TinMan

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2023
2,407
331
83
27
Michigan Saginaw
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Wedding cakes are "special". They are all unique and vary by number of tiers and color schemes and decoration themes. If he had a "Wedding cakes to go" table of pre-made cakes, he would have sold them one because they would not have even needed to say who it was for. Wedding cakes are not like that.
What he had was a business where he made wedding cakes. What he did is he refused to treat members of a minority as people.
 

TinMan

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2023
2,407
331
83
27
Michigan Saginaw
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Held: The Commission’s actions in this case violated the Free Exercise
Clause. Pp. 9–18.
(a) The laws and the Constitution can, and in some instances must,
protect gay persons and gay couples in the exercise of their civil
rights, but religious and philosophical objections to gay marriage are
protected views and in some instances protected forms of expression
.
See Obergefell v. Hodges, 576 U. S. ___, ___. While it is unexceptional
that Colorado law can protect gay persons in acquiring products and
services on the same terms and conditions as are offered to other
members of the public, the law must be applied in a manner that is
neutral toward religion
. To Phillips, his claim that using his artistic
skills to make an expressive statement, a wedding endorsement in
his own voice and of his own creation, has a significant First
Amendment speech component and implicates his deep and sincere
religious beliefs
. His dilemma was understandable in 2012, which
was before Colorado recognized the validity of gay marriages per-
formed in the State and before this Court issued United States v.
Windsor, 570 U. S. 744, or Obergefell. Given the State’s position at
the time, there is some force to Phillips’ argument that he was not
unreasonable in deeming his decision lawful. State law at the time
also afforded storekeepers some latitude to decline to create specific
messages they considered offensive. Indeed, while the instant en-
forcement proceedings were pending, the State Civil Rights Division
concluded in at least three cases that a baker acted lawfully in declin-
ing to create cakes with decorations that demeaned gay persons or
gay marriages. Phillips too was entitled to a neutral and respectful
consideration of his claims in all the circumstances of the case
.
Pp. 9–12.
(b) That consideration was compromised, however, by the Commis-
sion’s treatment of Phillips’ case, which showed elements of a clear
and impermissible hostility toward the sincere religious beliefs moti-
vating his objection. As the record shows, some of the commissioners
at the Commission’s formal, public hearings endorsed the view that
religious beliefs cannot legitimately be carried into the public sphere
or commercial domain, disparaged Phillips’ faith as despicable and
characterized it as merely rhetorical, and compared his invocation of
his sincerely held religious beliefs to defenses of slavery and the Hol-
ocaust
. No commissioners objected to the comments. Nor were they
mentioned in the later state-court ruling or disavowed in the briefs
filed here. The comments thus cast doubt on the fairness and impar-
tiality of the Commission’s adjudication of Phillips’ case.
Another indication of hostility is the different treatment of Phillips’
case and the cases of other bakers with objections to anti-gay mes-
sages who prevailed before the Commission. The Commission ruled
against Phillips in part on the theory that any message on the re-
quested wedding cake would be attributed to the customer, not to the
baker. Yet the Division did not address this point in any of the cases
involving requests for cakes depicting anti-gay marriage symbolism.
The Division also considered that each bakery was willing to sell oth-
er products to the prospective customers, but the Commission found
Phillips’ willingness to do the same irrelevant
. The State Court of
and nothing here on "special rights" It is an interesting choice of words considering the baker is demanding the special right to discriminate agaisnt certain people.
 

TinMan

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2023
2,407
331
83
27
Michigan Saginaw
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This really is not much different from asking for a gluten free cake in a bakery full of flours containing gluten.

I told everyone...we have gluten flours...some are high gluten. ALL HAVE GLUTEN.
With as much flour flying around in the air there was no possible way that we could produce anything gluten free.

But to compel me to make gluten free cakes or something...that would be insane.
the difference is more if you did provide gluten free goods....but only to white people.
 

TinMan

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2023
2,407
331
83
27
Michigan Saginaw
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The issue is not the cake. It is not the cake. The issue is the intention of the Activist. The majority of Gays and Lesbians don't want anything to do with the Activist point of view. They want to live their lives like we want to ......close the doors and practice what their family wishes to practice.....Activists try to tell the world they are all just as devious as the Activists.....
They weren't activists before someone chose to discriminate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BlessedPeace

TinMan

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2023
2,407
331
83
27
Michigan Saginaw
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
They are no more christain than the devil is . Just cause they try and claim to be .
REMEMBER , christains do not IDENTIFY with SIN . ANY SIN . DO KEEP THAT IN MIND .
The klan is wicked , they may try and identify as christain , HECK a lot of false ones do .
BUT they aint . Not at all .
PS christains dont identify with sin , the klan does .
SInce we are on that reminder , Same goes with ANY SIN BUDDY .
there is no such thing as GAY CHRISTIAIN either .
We are dead to sin , NOT IDENDTIFYING WITH SIN . DO take care to LEARN THAT TOO .
The were in action and belief. Prayer and biblical preaching were always part of kal gatherings. for generations the klan enjoyed the support of most mainline churches in the south. Denying they weren't is just dishonest and troubling, you don't get to dictate who does not have a relationship with God.

As for wicked.... the klans views on homosexuality are pretty much identical to your own so if they are wicked what does that make you?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rita

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
4,190
3,257
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

This is from an old show, What Would You Do?
The restaurant manager and MAGA hat guy are actors. I think it's fitting given the parameters of our discussion.
 

bluedragon

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2021
1,898
1,376
113
69
Birmingham, Al
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
They weren't activists before someone chose to discriminate.

Bull ....no one was hanging gays from trees. They became activists to create a problem that didn't exist ......They intentionally attacked Christians

You are so lame with your MSNBC positions ....

You hate profit ......don't have a clue how it works .....Want to live in socialism? You can take a row boat and go to Venezuela and Cuba ...They are not that far away.
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2019
1,879
938
113
62
Port Richey, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
and nothing here on "special rights" It is an interesting choice of words considering the baker is demanding the special right to discriminate agaisnt certain people.
The right to force a Christian baker to do what other bakers are not forced to do (bake cakes they find objectionable) is a right that other groups do not enjoy. By definition, that makes it a "SPECIAL" right reserved for those that hate Christians ... which is EXACTLY what the SUPREME COURT ruled happened in Colorado in that case. Personally, I hope the baker counter-sues the STATE for the discrimination (unequal treatment under the law) and violation of HIS constitutional rights perpetrated by both a State Commission and the State Courts.

As for the so-called "discriminated against" couple ... they had no wedding (it was illegal in the state at that time) and they had another baker make them a cake for their celebration of sin. So they suffered no real harm, but accomplished the real harm that they set out to accomplish.



"For there is no good tree that bears bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree that bears good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit. For people do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. The good person out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil person out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart." - Luke 6:43-45 [NASB]

 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

TinMan

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2023
2,407
331
83
27
Michigan Saginaw
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Bull ....no one was hanging gays from trees.
Of course they were. Killed with guns, or baseball bats, knives, run down by cars. There are untold numbers of LGBT people killed every year just because they existed. We can't know just how many LGBT were held down by their loving parents and had their wrists slit, Killed when "good" people set fire to their homes. We can't know just how many LGBT people were imprisoned in institutions and had doctors hammer iron spikes into their skulls to "cure" them. People are dead, murdered because someone chose to hate them. And you have the nerve to sit there and try to claim it didn't happen that it isn't happening right now.

What is wrong with you?
 

bluedragon

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2021
1,898
1,376
113
69
Birmingham, Al
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Of course they were. Killed with guns, or baseball bats, knives, run down by cars. There are untold numbers of LGBT people killed every year just because they existed. We can't know just how many LGBT were held down by their loving parents and had their wrists slit, Killed when "good" people set fire to their homes. We can't know just how many LGBT people were imprisoned in institutions and had doctors hammer iron spikes into their skulls to "cure" them. People are dead, murdered because someone chose to hate them. And you have the nerve to sit there and try to claim it didn't happen that it isn't happening right now.

What is wrong with you?


In the US ? What level of insanity are you at now? Practicing to become the next version of Biden?
 

bluedragon

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2021
1,898
1,376
113
69
Birmingham, Al
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In the US ? What level of insanity are you at now? Practicing to become the next version of Biden?

Provide the court cases and instances in the US. Otherwise, as you always do when you can't carry a logical debate ......howl at the moon .....
 

bluedragon

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2021
1,898
1,376
113
69
Birmingham, Al
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Of course they were. Killed with guns, or baseball bats, knives, run down by cars. There are untold numbers of LGBT people killed every year just because they existed. We can't know just how many LGBT were held down by their loving parents and had their wrists slit, Killed when "good" people set fire to their homes. We can't know just how many LGBT people were imprisoned in institutions and had doctors hammer iron spikes into their skulls to "cure" them. People are dead, murdered because someone chose to hate them. And you have the nerve to sit there and try to claim it didn't happen that it isn't happening right now.

What is wrong with you?

Imagine that ...the point made that no one is hanging people from trees and you make an entire fool out of yourself stipulating everything but people hanging from trees .....

As always without proof .......to justify ACTIVISM attempting to entrap Christians .....
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
13,654
5,153
113
55
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There are untold numbers of LGBT people killed every year just because they existed.
Just like murderers on death row, killed every year just because they existed ...

Well, it might have something to do with their actions. :oops:
In the US ? What level of insanity are you at now? Practicing to become the next version of Biden?
LOL That reminds me.

1694794942260.png
 

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
4,190
3,257
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You guys should step back from the topic here and reflect on how you are behaving as people who profess Christ.

The Colorado baker, Jack Phillips, chose to not make wedding cakes at all.
Even after the US SCOTUS ruled in his favor.

The Colorado court ruled against him later. However, contrary to a claim here this does not give a special right against Christians in business. It applies to all businesses in Colorado.

What Mr. Phillips sought from the courts was a special discrimination right afforded to Christians in business.
Had that been granted in the scope he sought, civil rights would be vacated.

Even U.S SCOTUS decision in his favor was a narrow vote and pertained only to the particulars in this case.

The truth of the matter is, and likely this cannot be said of posters here, I've spoken with Mr. Phillips when this topic was at its peak.

As demonstrated by his refusal of a child's rainbow birthday cake, he is immature and gross in his faith practice.

Thinking doing work for someone thought to be unworthy of said labor and because of who the applicant are perceived to be by the worker is and should be illegal.

Further, Mr. Phillips thinking his cake creation is evidence of supporting the sins of the customer , is ridiculous. Because were that to have merit, he would have to go out of business entirely in order to uphold his belief in that regard. Because he would have to adjudicate all members of the public worthy of his judgement as intolerable sinners of some sort.

Which he demonstrated himself capable of when he discriminated against a little girl.

We are suppose to see ourselves as in the world, but not of this world.

Giving the world's people credit to yoke us into their lifestyles and behaviors because any one of them responds to our public
invitation to the whole public to avail themselves of our particular services or accommodations, is not how we example donning the armor of God in this world where Satan is lord.

We must have the laws of man to protect us from the sins of others, when we freely choose to open a public accommodation?

A baker thinking their making a cake for a wedding of two gay customers means they approve their sin is no more true than that same baker making cupcakes for a woman who had a baby out of wedlock.

However, it is true in the young milk fed mind of the baker who wants their cake and to eat it too.
I. E. I want to open a public business but, I want to serve only those I deem worthy of my services.

America's governance is secular, not Theocratic. For a reason. If history doesn't provide us the reason why the founders determined that, all we need do is look to Iran.

I said I was departing from this thread however, reading the latest posts it is amazing me how some of us here example Christ when speaking to those not in agreement with our perspective.

Imagine the downward slide if everyone of faith, including atheists who have 1st amendment religious rights, refused service to those they deemed unworthy because of the beliefs, discrimination, afforded by that individual.

Sorry, you're Muslim? Can't save your life since you're a Hell bound pagan. Call another ambulance.

Oh, you believe in that? Well, I don't so I'm not filling your prescription.

Get out of my store hippie! God said it is a sin for a man to have long hair!

Sorry ladies, you are wearing pants that have a fly. Dressing like a man is forbidden in my faith. You'll have to buy flowers for your mother's funeral somewhere else.

Consistency! In taking religious umbrage based on faith reliance! Not special right as a religious individual to openly exclusively discriminate against certain sinners.

And what with our own community and denominational conflicts, even in this community, imagine how we'd fair judging each other in such ways.

You're a Calvinist? Take your Hell bound wilted T. U. L. I. P elsewhere, heretic!

Imagine what God thinks as he watches how we put on Christ in this world where he allows Satan to test whether we live as little examples of Christ or, example we merely carry the slogan.

Praying for all who participate further. Yes, and including you Tinman. Surprised? I can understand why.

For God so loved the world. That he let Satan remain as lord here. That we prove whom we really serve when carrying Jesus' name.

Sinners, sinners, everywhere! I'll choose to not love those ones over there.
(Hate isn't love)

jesus-bible.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: JosephZ