What is the Lords Day?

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St. SteVen

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Do you think God walked with them and didnt speak to them, I think not..
There is no record of God talking to them about the Sabbath.
That's preposterous.

The word Sabbath does not appear until Exodus chapter sixteen.

As for your question, look how far off we have gone with 'traditions' of man today, and they had been slaves in Egypt with their idol worship for years. But we see that there was those who did follow after Adam and Eve and the Bible shows it..
How could they have been God's people if they were pagan idolators?

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
What commandments?
The ones given after the Exodus?
 
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St. SteVen

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I think the Bible is clear and not just one part here and there, but throughout..
Is anyone in the New Testament criticized for not keeping the Sabbath?
I mean other than Jesus. --- Say what? (scripture below)

If it was so important, why didn't Jesus make it clear by word and example.

John 9:16 NIV
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

John 5:18 NIV
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
 
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mailmandan

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There is no record of God talking to them about the Sabbath.
That's preposterous.

The word Sabbath does not appear until Exodus chapter sixteen.


How could they have been God's people if they were pagan idolators?


What commandments?
The ones given after the Exodus?
Prior to Moses, there was no command for sabbath keeping. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

Nehemiah 9:13 - “Then You came down on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 “So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, through Your servant Moses.

Why is no one before Moses ever commanded to keep the sabbath? Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the sabbath before Moses? Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about the sabbath but were instructed regarding: Offerings (Genesis 4:3-4) Altars (Genesis 8:20) Priests (Genesis 14:18) Tithes (Genesis 14:20) Circumcision (Genesis 17:10) Marriage (Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 34:9). Why would God leave out the sabbath command in Genesis if it was for everyone to keep before Moses?
 
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St. SteVen

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Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the sabbath before Moses?
Exactly.
Sabbath observance is not easily concealed.

Prior to Exodus chapter 16 we find no one:
- Observing a Preparation Day
- Avoiding work, or cutting a workweek short
- Postponing travel
- Advising others of restrictions
- Informing visitors of community restrictions
- Teaching others to observe
- Lauding the benefits
- Being criticized for lack of compliance
- Enforcing observance
 
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Bob Estey

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Many people claim that this proves the Sabbath was changed using this verse..
Revelation 1:10
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

What is the Lord's day? Lets look in the Bible:

The "Lord's day" according to scripture, is the 7th day, the sabbath day of the Lord.

Genesis 2:1-3,4 - 'the seventh day', 'God', 'day', 'the LORD God' [… God [the LORD] … day …]

Exodus 16:23 - "the LORD", "to morrow [the seventh day] is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD' [... the LORD ... [day] ...]

Exodus 16:25 - 'to day [the seventh day]; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day' [... the LORD ... day]

Exodus 20:8-11 - 'the sabbath day', 'the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God', 'sabbath day' [... the LORD ... day ...]

Exodus 31:15 - 'the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD ... the sabbath day' [... the LORD ... day]

Exodus 35:2,3 - 'the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD', 'the sabbath day' [… the LORD … day …]

Leviticus 23:3 - 'the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD'

Deuteronomy 5:12,14 – 'the LORD', 'the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God' [… the LORD … day …]

Psalms 92:1 - 'A Psalm or Song for the sabbath day. It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD'

Isaiah 56:6 - 'Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath [day] from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant' (context new covenant) [... the LORD ... sabbath [day] ...]

Isaiah 58:13 - 'the sabbath ... my [the LORD's] holy day ... the holy [day] of the Lord' [... [the LORD's] ... day]

Isaiah 66:22,23 – 'the LORD', 'one sabbath [day] to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD' [… the LORD … [day] …]

Jeremiah 17:21 - 'saith the LORD... on the sabbath day' [... the LORD ... day]

Matthew 12:8 - 'the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day' [... the ... Lord ... day]

Mark 2:28 - 'the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day' [... the ... Lord ... day]

Luke 6:5 - 'the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath [day]' [... the ... Lord ... [day]]

Revelation 1:10 - 'the Lord's day'

There is no such thing as 'Sunday sacredness' in all of Scripture, except as a Mark of the Beast (Daniel 7:25).

The Sabbath is the 'Lords Day', not Sunday or the first day.
People debate this over and over again. I think the Lord was just telling us we need a day of rest each week. If you can't do a day, do two half days.
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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St. SteVen said:
Even Adam and Eve (assuming) would have been off of God's "Holy Day" calendar.
Sabbath rest comes after six days of work. A&E were created on the sixth day.

That's a HUGE assumption with absolutely no biblical support.

The Pentateuch was written by Moses. Obviously after the Sabbath had been instituted.
That's why the creation account POINTS to the Sabbath. Not vice versa.

Question: If the Sabbath was observed from the beginning,
why did the Israelites need to be instructed in Exodus chapter sixteen?
AND... why was it not a law for the Israelites until Exodus 20?
Interesting points, and I thank you. And agree that they had to work... for at least 6 days... not just a few hours before resting.

As one who does not subscribe to the 144 consecutive hours of the 6 time periods that have been called days
you brought something to mind as I read you today.....

Day 6 was a very active day in creation.

Gen 1: 24 Then God said, “Let the earth produce living creatures according to their kind: livestock and crawling things and animals of the earth according to their kind”; and it was so. (This is odd wording, but I digress)

25 God made the animals of the earth according to their kind, and the livestock according to their kind, and everything that crawls on the ground according to its kind; and God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make mankind in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the livestock and over all the earth, and over every crawling thing that crawls on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

And after a few more comments it closes with And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

Quite a packed full day.

Especially with the instruction in vs 28
28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

That would be a lot of work and at the end of 6 days a well deserved rest should be had....

Question: Does anyone know if Eve had children while in the Garden of Eden?

Now... lets go on to Gen 2.

We are told thta God created this magnificent Garden for Adam to live in.... (HE did not have to rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the livestock and over all the earth, and over every crawling thing that crawls on the earth.”... JUST

2: 15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate it and tend it.

But alas Adam was lonely so

2: 18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.

20 The man gave names to all the livestock, and to the birds of the sky, and to every animal of the field, but for [q]Adam there was not found a helper [r]suitable for him.

21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place.

22 And the Lord God [s]fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.

Adam is made first.... then animals..... then Eve..... (Quite a difference from Let Us make mankind ...He created them.

So,,how long Adam worked with the animals before Eve came into being we are not told.... It might have taken more then a day even for him to name them all....

But you make a valid suggestion... Thank you

Before going I want to comment on this...

"Question: If the Sabbath was observed from the beginning,
why did the Israelites need to be instructed in Exodus chapter sixteen?
AND... why was it not a law for the Israelites until Exodus 20? "

Excellent, excellent point.
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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@Hobie

If I can take this just briefly back to the subject matter of What is the Lord's day I want to post this article I read this morning.... (Y'all, at least Hobie knows, I do not have trouble with threads going off regarding something that is posted in a reply previously... I actually think it is beneficial when that happens.... but thought this belonged here)

I have been doing a very deep search into Constantine and his mom Helena... There needs to be a different thread on part of what I read as it is not with the Sabbath but the Cross of Christ.

Anyway....

I read this... and I am not claiming it is accurate or wrong... just more fuel for the fire...... and it does make a modicum of sense.


Sabbath to Sunday
What Really Happened Under Constantine?

You may have heard the story of how Constantine changed the Sabbath to Sunday. According to the story, the early churches kept the Sabbath until Constantine, who was the high priest of paganism and who honored the sun god, changed the Sabbath, the 7th day, to the day of the sun, the 1st day.


Constantine the Great bust
Constantine the Great

The story isn't true. (How do we know?)

If you came to this page from my Sabbath page, then you know that the churches prior to Constantine didn't keep the Jewish Sabbath. They did not refrain from work on the seventh day of the week (or on the 1st day, either), so there was no Sabbath-keeping for Constantine to put an end to.

There was an issue that Constantine and the Council of Nicea did have to address that concerned Sunday. That issue had been debated for at least two centuries prior to Constantine's day …

The Quartodeciman Controversy

The early churches observed passover each year, which they called pascha in Greek, a word meaning suffering and referring to Christ's suffering before and upon the cross.

There was a question as to whether it was best to observe Passover on Nisan 14, the day the Jews celebrated it, no matter which day of the week it fell on, or whether to observe it on the Sunday nearest Nisan 14. The early church made a special day of Sunday, but not because it was a day consecrated to the sun god, as is often suggested by Sabbath-keepers. Instead, they consecrated Sunday as the Lord's Day, the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.

The Lord's day was not a day of rest but a day of rejoicing. It was a tradition with the early churches not to kneel on Sunday because it was the day on which Jesus rose from the dead. Thus, it was to be a day of celebration, and they did not kneel or fast (De Corona 3).

It was very difficult to settle the Passover question.

The early churches had two ways of settling controversies. One was to resort to the Scriptures. The other was to consult the tradition the apostles had given to the churches.

Paul assigns great importance to such tradition, telling both the Corinthians (1 Cor. 11:2) and the Thessalonians (2 Thess. 2:15) to hold fast to his traditions. He specifically told the Thessalonians that they were to do so whether the traditions were written or verbal.

In this case, however, the Scriptures had nothing to say, and the traditions handed down to the various churches differed:

Anicetus [bishop of Rome] could not persuade Polycarp [bishop of Smyrna, an eastern church] to forego the observance [of Nisan 14], since these things had always been observed by John the disciple of the Lord and by the other apostles with whom [Polycarp] had been conversant. On the other hand, Polycarp couldn't persuade Anicetus to keep [Nisan 14] either. For [Anicetus] maintained that he was bound to adhere to the usage of the elders who preceded him. In this state of affairs they held fellowship with each other. ("Fragments from the Lost Writings of Irenaeus" from The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. I)
When the Council of Nicea met in A.D. 325, the controversy had never been settled. The west still held to one practice, and the east another.

The Council of Nicea Chooses Sunday

The Council of Nicea—a council attended and somewhat led by Constantine—did make a decision for Sunday, but not to change the Sabbath to Sunday. Instead, they ruled only on the question of the celebration of Passover. The church had been meeting on Sunday for centuries.

A.D. 110:

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e., the Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death … (Ignatius, Letter to the Magnesians 9)
It should be obvious that the Lord's Day is the first day of the week, but people have argued and written books to the effect that the Lord's day is the Sabbath. These are the same people who have produced the myths about Constantine changing the Sabbath to Sunday and the fabricated history about the early Church keeping the Sabbath.

As you can see, Ignatius contrasts the Lord's day with the Sabbath, and he tells us that it is the day "on which also our life has sprung up again by him." He is referring to the first day of the week, which we now call Sunday.

A.D. 150:

Justin doesn't bother referring to the Lord's day or the first day of the week. A Roman living in Rome and writing to a Roman emperor, he is content to refer to the day in Roman terminology: the day of the sun, or Sunday.

And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together in one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. … [then a description of communion given as well] (Justin Martyr, First Apology 67)
As you can see, Christians had been meeting on Sunday since the first century.

So here is what the Council of Nicea did decree. This is from the synodal letter sent out after the council:

Did the Council of Nicea call Passover Easter?

Since the synodal letter of the Council of Nicea was originally written in Greek, it would have used the Greek term Pascha, meaning Passover not Easter. The same is true of Acts 12:4, which should be rendered Passover, but the King James Version gives as Easter.
The word Easter is only used in German and English, which derived from German. Spanish, for example, still uses Pascua, corresponding to the Greek Pascha, the word for Passover.
Easter comes from the German calendar month Eostur, named after the Anglo-Saxon goddess Eostre. Eostur-monath corresponded to our April, and the Germanic tribes of the first millennium after Christ named their festivals after the month. When Christianity replaced the German festivals with Passover, they left the term Eostur intact. (Ref: Wikipedia, which cites the eighth-century history of the Venerable Bede.)
We further proclaim to you the good news of the agreement concerning the holy Easter, that this particular also has through your prayers been rightly settled; so that all our brethren in the East who formerly followed the custom of the Jews are henceforth to celebrate the said most sacred feast of Easter at the same time with the Romans and yourselves and all those who have observed Easter from the beginning. ("The Synodal Letter" from Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, series 2, vol. XIV)

Conclusion

As you can see, The only decision the Council of Nicea made about Sunday was that Passover would be celebrated on the Sunday nearest Nisan 14, rather than on Nisan 14 itself. The idea that Constantine and the Council of Nicea changed the Sabbath to Sunday from Saturday is simply a myth.

It is important to point out that Constantine did make an edict, in 324, the year before the Council of Nicea, mandating worship of the Supreme God on Sunday (Gonzalez, Justo, The Story of Christianity, p. 123). This could be seen as honoring Christians, for whom Sunday was the Lord's day, but it could also be seen as honoring the sun god as well.

Either way, the idea that Constantine or the Council of Nicea changed the Sabbath to Sunday from Saturday is simply false. The Christian Sabbath was never Saturday or any other day of the week, so there was nothing for Constantine to change.
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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@Hobie

Another interesting article on the Sabbath.

The Sabbath

Let no one judge you concerning food or drink, or in regard to a feast, new moon, or Sabbaths, which are a shadow of coming things, but the body belongs to Christ.
–Paul the Apostle, Colossians 2:16-17, c. A.D. 60
Those who have been brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e., converted Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath but living in observance of the Lord's day.
–Ignatius, Magnesians 10, A.D. 110


Why Don't Christians Keep the Sabbath?

The Roman Forum
The Roman Forum
Surely most of us who have read the Bible extensively have wondered why Christians don't keep the Sabbath. There at least seems to be several reasons that we should.

  • We talk about the ten commandments, and we seem to believe that Christians should keep them. The Sabbath is one of those commandments.
  • When the command to keep the Sabbath is given, God says the reason for it is that he rested on the 7th day of creation (Ex. 20:11). Surely that reason hasn't changed!
  • The Israelites were told to keep the Sabbath "throughout their generations" and as a "perpetual covenant."
  • There are several prophecies that most Christians understand to be future that refer to the weekly Sabbath (e.g.; Is. 66:23; Ezek. 46:3)
It's important to note that what I mean by keeping the Sabbath is refraining from work on the 7th day of the week, which is now called Saturday. That's what it meant to the Jews, and it was so important to God that he ordered a man stoned for gathering sticks on the 7th day (Num. 15:32-36).

Today, most Protestants will tell you that we don't keep the Sabbath because that's the Law, and we're not under the Law. The Roman Catholic church will tell you that they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday by the authority God has given them. In the 19th century and earlier, most Protestants would have agreed with the Roman Catholics on that issue. They would have refrained from working on Sunday, which they called—and still do call—the Lord's day.

What's the truth? What should we be doing.

The Apostles' Churches Did Not Keep the Sabbath

Christians will be arguing about what the Bible says—about the Sabbath and many other issues—until the day of Jesus Christ. There's little doubt about that, and my opinion of what the Bible truly teaches is not going to mean much to those who disagree.

However, there are some clear, objective issues I can settle for you, and one of them is whether the churches the apostles started kept the Sabbath.

The answer is no, they did not keep the Sabbath. Despite the fact that several whole books have been written arguing that they did, it is very clear they did not.

I have very little regard for the honesty of the people who wrote those books. No one who actually researches the era from the apostles to the Nicene Creed could possibly come away wondering whether those churches kept the Sabbath. They would know that they didn't.

I gave you one quote above, from Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Magnesians. Ignatius is not a nobody. Ignatius was the overseer of the church in Antioch. Antioch was Paul's home church, and Ignatius was appointed to that position by the apostle John.


It's hard to carry much more authority than that without actually being one of the original apostles yourself.

No early Christian after him disagrees with him on the Sabbath.

Rather than load you down with quotes on this page, I'll simply refer you to the Sabbath quotes page on this site. It will open in a new window.

I hope those quotes will be clear enough. It's very frustrating that books written by Sabbath-keepers have been so willingly dishonest, or the quotes on that page would be decisive for everyone. As it is, with those books clouding the issue, you could be left with doubts even after seeing the absolute consistency of so many quotes over several centuries.

I have some confidence, however, that because my quotes can be looked up and verified and because their context is obvious, any confusion caused by those books will evaporate after reading what the early church itself had to say on the subject.

Why Didn't Those Early Christians Keep the Sabbath

Actually, in their opinion, they did keep the Sabbath. They did not keep the Sabbath in the sense of refraining from work on the seventh day. They did keep the Sabbath in the sense that they kept the rest of the Law of Moses. They kept it in its extended and filled sense.

Briefly, if you don't want to immediately read the page I just linked, the "extended and filled" sense of the Law is the sense Jesus gave the Law of Moses in Matthew 5. There you read Jesus repeatedly saying, "You have heard it said … but I say to you … "

So the "extended and filled" sense is that rather than just avoiding murder, we're to avoid anger and hatred. Rather than merely avoiding adultery, we're to refrain even from lust. Rather than fulfilling just our oaths, we're to follow through on our every word.

And rather than just rest on the 7th day, we're to sanctify each and every day to the Lord.

If … anyone can now sanctify the day which God has sanctified except by being pure in heart in all things, then we are deceived. Behold, therefore, it is certain that we properly rest and sanctify it when we are able to work righteousness because we have received the promise and wickedness no longer exists because all things have been made new by the Lord. Then we shall be able to sanctify it because we are first sanctified ourselves. (Letter of Barnabas 15, c. A.D. 130)
The new law requires you to keep perpetual Sabbath, and you [Jews], because you are idle for one day, suppose you are godly, not understanding why this command was given to you. (Justin, Dialogue with Trypho, a Jew 12, c. A.D. 150)
We learn from Scripture itself that God gave circumcision … as a sign. … Ezekiel the prophet says the same concerning the Sabbaths: "I gave them my Sabbaths to be a sign between me and them … " … These things, then, were given as a sign, but the signs were not lacking symbolism … since they were given by a wise Artist; the circumcision of the flesh typified that which was of the Spirit. … But the Sabbaths taught that we should continue day by day in God's service. (Irenaeus, Against Heresies IV:16:1, c. A.D. 185)
To the early churches, the way to keep the Sabbath was to rest in Christ, experience his power and holiness, and thus sanctify every day to the Lord. The Scriptures seem to agree with this.

In Hebrews 4, the writer contrasts the 7th day Sabbath (v. 4) with a later rest that we must enter into (vv. 8-9). The writer of Hebrews tell us that we are to "labor to enter into that rest."

Conclusion and Further Links

The Law of Moses is well worth looking at. It describes the way 2nd century Christians understood the Law, and it provides a remarkable and satisfying synthesis of Matthew 5 and Paul's letters. Don't miss that page.

That page will explain to you that the early churches did not keep the Sabbath in the sense of resting on Saturday; however, they believed they properly kept the Sabbath. They did not do this by replacing the 7th day with the 1st day. Instead, the Sabbath they kept was a daily rest in Christ and a sanctification of each and every day in the Lord, what Justin called a "perpetual Sabbath."

There are some myths and stories that are popular, though, and we still need to address these.

 

St. SteVen

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That would be a lot of work and at the end of 6 days a well deserved rest should be had....

Question: Does anyone know if Eve had children while in the Garden of Eden?
The other issue is the sun was not created on day one. So how long was that "day"?
I heard someone explain that there is more than one definition of "day" in the Hebrew.
He claimed that several definitions were used over the creation week.
But there is still the problem of a sunset and sunrise.
Which is an odd order. Probably to support the Sabbath pointing to creation.

As I understand it, Eve didn't have children until they were put out of the garden.
Otherwise they would have needed a baby sitter for the Fall. - LOL
Maybe that's why the price of daycare is hell-to-pay. (by the sweat of your brow)
 

St. SteVen

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Interesting points, and I thank you. And agree that they had to work... for at least 6 days... not just a few hours before resting.
Right.
It says God set the day apart, but it was immediately messed up.
Which again helps to support the idea that the Sabbath points to creation, not vice versa.
 

Rockerduck

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Jesus was the end of the Law, and Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath;, then Jesus was risen on Sunday., so we celebrate our Savior on Sunday. Pretty simple.
 

St. SteVen

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Before going I want to comment on this...

"Question: If the Sabbath was observed from the beginning,
why did the Israelites need to be instructed in Exodus chapter sixteen?
AND... why was it not a law for the Israelites until Exodus 20? "

Excellent, excellent point.
Thank you.
This came up earlier, I believe. But it's another key point, in case you didn't see it.
The sabbath is a sign between Israel and God.

  • Exodus 31:13
    “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.

  • Ezekiel 20:12
    Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.

  • Ezekiel 20:20
    hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’
 

Cassandra

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"Question: If the Sabbath was observed from the beginning,
why did the Israelites need to be instructed in Exodus chapter sixteen?
AND... why was it not a law for the Israelites until Exodus 20?
Because they had been in bondage for over 400 years and had to be retold. --not just the 4th, but retaught all of them
 

St. SteVen

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That was actually a quote of my question to @Rella

Rella said:
"Question: If the Sabbath was observed from the beginning,
why did the Israelites need to be instructed in Exodus chapter sixteen?
AND... why was it not a law for the Israelites until Exodus 20?
Because they had been in bondage for over 400 years and had to be retold. --not just the 4th, but retaught all of them
Oops, minor oversight?
Is there any evidence of ANYONE observing the Sabbath before Exodus chapter sixteen? (the Manna collection week)
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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That was actually a quote of my question to @Rella

Rella said:
"Question: If the Sabbath was observed from the beginning,
why did the Israelites need to be instructed in Exodus chapter sixteen?
AND... why was it not a law for the Israelites until Exodus 20?
You are so right.... apologies but a very important point.
 
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Hobie

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People debate this over and over again. I think the Lord was just telling us we need a day of rest each week. If you can't do a day, do two half days.
So when the time comes to meet your Creator, what will you say about your disregard for His Ten Commandments, got to think that one over..

Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 

Hobie

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Actually, you have the bigger problem. Nobody needs to prove that Sunday was the "Lord's Day" biblically. When John wrote in Revelation about the "Lord's Day" he didn't have to be referring to Sunday. Nobody needs biblical proof that "Saturday got changed to Sunday" because it's not nor has ever been a matter of biblical law! I've told you that repeatedly, as others have, and you simply ignore the point.

The point is, if the change from emphasis on Saturday to emphasis on Sunday was the product of *Christian tradition* then *it does not need biblical justification!* It is simply the product of Christian tradition, which I've told you was displayed by Paul again and again.

Paul applied both reason and liberty in the practices of Christians in the pagan Roman environment. It was a matter of discretion, and not law. And Christians from that time forward have the same liberty to choose days to meet on, worship on, or avoid.

But you want to stir trouble up over something that *does not require biblical justification,* though Paul does justify the reasonable application of non-legal traditions and relevant practices. You just want to cause trouble and ignore these facts. You have not answered any of these relevant points, proving this.
Christ was pretty clear on that point...
Matthew 15:3
But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
 

Hobie

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There is only one Sabbath, Saturday. If you regard that as special, by all means, set it aside. I regard everyday as special and thank God that I woke up.
But there is a special day, that most Christians identify as the most important event in history, the day of Christ's resurrection.


Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. John 20:1

But the angel answered and said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6 He is not here; for He is risen, ... Matt. 28:5

>Can you imagine any Sabbath day more important than that day?

On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight. Acts 20:7

One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. Rom. 14:5-6

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. Col. 2:16


Besides that, there are over 200 Sabbath laws that the Jews were to keep. They could not do work of any kind. Meals had to be prepared before sundown on Friday. They could only walk so far, couldn't bend down to pick something up ...This was really more of a burden. They failed to keep the law in every way. Oh occasionally for short periods of time they might have had a perfect day here and there.
Christ fulfilled the law (613 laws) for us and particularly did not emphasize trying to keep the Sabbath. On the contrary, he worked and so did the Disciples on the Sabbath. He criticized the Pharisees for their condemnation of the disciples picking some heads of wheat for food!

You cannot keep those Sabbath laws anyways, so what are you pretending to do, be holy on the Sabbath?
That is regarded by some as legalism. Be careful! If you live by the Law you will be judged by the Law!
>> You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. Gal. 5:4
God only gives one day as the Sabbath in His Commandments, and nowhere does He changed that, its that simple.
Exodus 20:8
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.