Why are Bible scholars leaving Christianity?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Your bias against God blinds you to the truth.
Everyone who wants to know God will get to know him.
You just don't believe in the pure newborn conversion of the Bible.
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God,
Your unbelief is not my problem.
For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Progressive Christian religion of unrepented sinners, working to sin less than before, is not the pure religion of Jesus Christ to be and remain unspotted from the world.
Self-formative religions of men to sin less, but never cease from sinning, are all finalized with the grave.
Waiting until after the grave to be purely newborn of God as Jesus, is one day to late. There is no repentance from sinning granted after the grave.
We repent of our sinning now, or never.
For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
Not while sinning. There are indeed Christians sinning, just as Muslims and Jews and Buddhists, but pure born sons of God and saints in Christ Jesus are not now sinning today.
There are no sinners in Christ Jesus, in whom is no sinning. No matter what religion they hail from.
Good points....but, I always go to the aBible when looking for an answer and it has a satisfactory answer for me;....in the end times there will be a falling away. THat includes from all walks of life...including the church leadership...and especially included are those folks to cause chaos in the churches.
Paul wrote, Romans 7:15-20 (WEB):
(15) For I don’t know what I am doing. For I don’t practice what I desire to do; but what I hate, that I do.
(16) But if what I don’t desire, that I do, I consent to the law that it is good.
(17) So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwells in me.
(18) For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwells no good thing. For desire is present with me, but I don’t find it doing that which is good.
(19) For the good which I desire, I don’t do; but the evil which I don’t desire, that I practice.
(20) But if what I don’t desire, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwells in me.
So Paul admits that even he still sinned. None of us are perfect now, because, as Paul explains, we are still living in our human bodies which have a sinful nature - sin dwells in us. We consent that God's Law is good and that some of our actions are contrary to it, but Paul attributes the sin to the sinful nature of our human bodies and not to the will of the new man that we are becoming (being transformed into):
Ephesians 4:17-24 (WEB):
(17) This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind,
(18) being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their hearts;
(19) who having become callous gave themselves up to lust, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
(20) But you didn’t learn Christ that way;
(21) if indeed you heard him, and were taught in him, even as truth is in Jesus:
(22) that you put away, as concerning your former way of life, the old man, that grows corrupt after the lusts of deceit;
(23) and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
(24) and put on the new man, who in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of truth.
2 Corinthians 4:16 (WEB):
(16) Therefore we don’t faint, but though our outward man is decaying, yet our inward man is renewed day by day.
or (ESV):(16) So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day.
1 John 2:1 (MKJV):
(1) My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
Jesus taught us to pray for forgiveness for our sins (Luke 11:4), and John wrote, 1 John 1:8-10 (WEB):
(8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us the sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(10) If we say that we haven’t sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
No because it is not biblical.
The repeated injunction not to sin found through the epistles tells us that the new Christians in the early church struggled with temptation and with sin.
Why does Paul tell us that there is a way of escapi g temptation?
Why does he talk about his current problem of doing what he doesn't want to do?
I think the problem with that, is that it is a blanket judgment.
These people have something to say, but the church covers it's ears and screams so as not to hear them out,
We are using the Bible to hurl false accusations. The most common being that "they left us because they were never part of us."
How can we say that, when these folks had a calling on their lives, and followed that calling into ministry and even the mission field?
To claim that they were never a part of us is absurd, absolutely false.
Here we are at page 25 and besides myself, I only know of one other person that watched even one of testimonies in those videos.
But there have plenty of false accusations without apology. No wonder the world hates us, we are completely unlovable.
St. SteVen said:
That assumes that everyone had "a chance". Not true, right?
Does the doctrine we proclaim say that "knowing God" is enough to garner salvation? (nope)
Have you seen folks on the Spirit Baptism topic carrying on about baptism?
(the only way for the remission of sin - baptism washes it away)
That assumes that everyone had "a chance". Not true, right?
I agree with that, but...
Does the doctrine we proclaim say that "knowing God" is enough to garner salvation? (nope)
Have you seen folks on the Spirit Baptism topic carrying on about baptism?
(the only way for the remission of sin - baptism washes it away)
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Well...then what does this mean:......Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...(et al)
How can anyone advocate disbelief of scriptures when they are so clear...in themselves and without the need of supportive scriptures...gets me.
1 Peter 3:20-21 (WEB):
(20) ... God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ship was being built. In it, few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
(21) This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you—not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Peter was saying that the eight people, including Noah, who were saved during the Great Flood, was a type of the Christian baptism. It could be considered that they were saved through water; the flood being the type and baptism the corresponding antitype. Humankind was cleansed by the flood, and had a fresh start through Noah and his family. Likewise in baptism our old sinful self is considered to have died in water is and buried with Christ, we are cleansed of our old sins, and we have a fresh start of a new life in Jesus.
However, you stopped your quote at "now save us", but Peter goes on to explain more. The same word, baptisma, was used for washing, so there was some confusion with the Jewish cermonial washings for purification, John 3:25 (WEB):
(25) There arose therefore a questioning on the part of John’s disciples with some Jews about purification.
So Peter explains that it is not the cleansing, the "removal of dirt from the body" (ESV) that saves us, nor the act of baptism (immersion, washing) in water, but it is the professing in good conscience, during the bapismal ceremony, of our faith in Jesus that saves us, and we are saved through the resurrection of Jesus. As other translations translate it:
GNB:
(21) which was a symbol pointing to baptism, which now saves you. It is not the washing off of bodily dirt, but the promise made to God from a good conscience. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
ASV:(21) which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;
TLV:(21) Corresponding to that, immersion now brings you to safety—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but a pledge to God of a good conscience—through the resurrection of Messiah Yeshua.
The Cambridge Bible Notes says:
That which is of the essence of the saving power of baptism is the confession and the profession which precedes it. If that comes from a conscience that really renounces sin and believes on Christ, then baptism, as the channel through which the grace of the new birth is conveyed and the convert admitted into the Church of Christ, “saves us,” but not otherwise.
No need for supportive scriptures?
Right. That works for those who wish to support their own biblical opinion
with no concern for what the rest of the Bible says. It's called "proof-texting".
ChristisGod
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Who ARE "the prophets" in Ephesians 2:20?
My apologies in advance. This will take some doing to establish what the Bible says about this. I have broken in down into several posts. I hope that makes it easier to deal with. Thanks to anyone who is able to work through this and/or comment appropriately. Please correct me if I got anything...
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Keeping it in context.
Baptism or ceremonial body washing was the OT definition.
That was changed under the NT to baptism for sin cleansing.
See Acts 2;38 et al.
What about John the Baptist?
Or the baptisms performed by Jesus' disciples prior to Pentecost?
Both were NT, right?
"et al"?
What do you have? A grand total of two maybe?
While you discard the rest of the Bible and church tradition.
Nullified? It was never actually QUALIFIED!
Except by the few that want an outward ceremony to be more than it is.
Do you claim that an unbaptized Christian is unforgiven?
As a wretched double hearted believer in need of deliverance to move on to perfection of Romans 8.
If you want to preach Romans 7 to yourself for life, then that's your problem, not mine.
I was once double hearted in Romans 7, but I didn't stay there by making it 'doctrinally' comfortable for me.
I know none of you aren't. I entirely believe your testimony of still being a sinning sinner. And so unless you repent of your continued sinning, then 1 John 1:8 forbids you to say you have no sin.
Otherwise, while sinning in your fallen state, you would have no hope of repenting.
You can claim to be born of the devil in the flesh from the womb, all you wish. It still doesn't excuse you sinning with your father the devil against God.
I was created and made by Jesus Christ pure in my mother's womb, and He lightened me with His light coming into the world. And then like all men, I did sin.
He made and created you the same, but you prefer the hypocrite's way of saying you must sin in this life, because God 'made you that way'. He didn't, and neither did the devil. Jesus Christ is the only Maker of any thing in heaven and earth. He doesn't make anything with sin, by sin, for sin, or sinful.
True. The double hearted have a change of mind about the law of God and sinning, but not a change of heart to do His word and sin not.
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
I find the Christian sinner's doctrine of blaming the body on sinning, as most pathetic.
Becoming less sinful is the unrepented sinners religion of 'progressive' Christianity. Secular humanism with a Christian 'bent'. Bent Christianity.
True, If any man on earth sins, he can come to the Advocate for the whole world, and repent and confess to be forgiven of his sinning, and be made a new creature in Christ Jesus with all things now being of God.
This is not the sinners' version of the gospel, where all things are never of God alone, but continue having sin and things of the devil.
God gospel doesn't play share-time with the devil.
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
As I said, so long as you remain a double minded unrepented sinner, then don't also say you have no sin.and John wrote, 1 John 1:8-10 (WEB)8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Some sinful Christians do preach that, by saying they now have no sin condemned by God, while sinning with the devil.
It's the same here. They say they have not sinned with God no more condemning them, while having sinned with the devil.
Where do you find Scriptural evidence for that? I can only find the opposite - Psalm 51:5 (WEB):
(5) Behold, I was born in iniquity. In sin my mother conceived me.
or as the GNB translates it:(5) I have been evil from the day I was born; from the time I was conceived, I have been sinful.
That is not what I believe. God made mankind (Adam and Eve) perfect. Eve and Adam broke God's only commandment at that time and so God cursed the ground and barred mankind from the Tree of Life, so Adam and Eve started to physically decay and eventually died. All mankind since have inherited Adam's sinful decaying nature, so we are all born increasingly imperfect and with a sinful nature, and we all die. That is why Jesus was born of a virgin - God caused Mary to be pregnant so that Jesus' human body did not inherit the sinful nature from Adam. Jesus was the only human ever to be born pure and without a sinful nature.
But nobody can keep the Law - that's why we need a saviour!
You're calling Paul's teachings pathetic?!
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