Why do some people not like the idea of OSAS?

[JohnDB]

God worked through a sinner disciple to work miracles because God had no idea Judas was a betrayer.

In reality,Judas was saved by Christ from the cross.And it was Satan who entered Judas and led him to turn Jesus over to the Sanhedrin.

Whosoever believes in him shall not perish?

God didn't know?
I think the prophesy would disagree with you on that one.
He knew 1600 years before

 

[Godslittleservant]

I agree with got and their commentary.

That’s your belief/ opinion that it doesn’t harmonise with scripture, I disagree with you.

I’m not here to argue over scripture with you and what you believe it to be saying...it’s fruitless.

I understand you feel you have it down pat and cannot learn anything new cause our blinders are on tight and we trust in our own understanding so much that we are offended if we are called out on it. May God bless us all in our own wisdom we no longer need to study.

 

[Ritajanice]

I understand you feel you have it down pat and cannot learn anything new cause our blinders are on tight and we trust in our own understanding so much that we are offended if we are called out on it. May God bless us all in our own wisdom we no longer need to study.

That’s your own judgemental /opinion.

If I’m called out, I’m called out by the Holy Spirit....not man..

I trust in God and I speak out what I believe in my spirit is God’s truth from his Living word!!

If it’s not, then I can assure you he will let me know.

So far, I’m standing on his word, imo/ belief..a Born Again can never ever be taken out of the true vine...never in a million years.

As Long as it was God who birthed them in the Spirit that is....which is supernatural and a living birth.

John 10:28-30 KJV​

and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.


Why is this....because those who are in the true vine, were birthed in the Spirit, God attached them to the vine....God and only God placed them in the true vine by his own hand...In Jesus Name....Amen!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

See you are taking one scripture and making it stand alone that is not how we read the bible so something must be out of context or not understood correctly

1 scripture?

Jesus said in in John 3 John 4, John 5, he said it a few times in John 6. John the baptist said it in John 3. John the apostle said it in his book twice..

It is not standing alone.. It is said over and over.

So you can not be right in your interpretation or Jesus lied.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I understand you feel you have it down pat and cannot learn anything new cause our blinders are on tight and we trust in our own understanding so much that we are offended if we are called out on it. May God bless us all in our own wisdom we no longer need to study.

Same could be said of you

 

[Ritajanice]

1 scripture?

Jesus said in in John 3 John 4, John 5, he said it a few times in John 6. John the baptist said it in John 3. John the apostle said it in his book twice..

It is not standing alone.. It is said over and over.

So you can not be right in your interpretation or Jesus lied.

Brother, we have posted reams and reams of scripture as you well know.

Saying a Born Again can NEVER lose their salvation....they aren’t understanding what we are talking about....all in God’s timing, he alone can only bring them to the truth of his word.

All in my opinion/ belief...that I stand on the truth of God’s word.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Whosoever believes in him shall not perish?

God didn't know?
I think the prophesy would disagree with you on that one.
He knew 1600 years before

Precisely. How else would Jesus have died for our sins?

 

[atpollard]

but do you compare those with the ones that teach we can fall from grace the we must run the race that we must endure to the end I think you are refusing to harmonize them with yours and put on a blindfold to the rest of the scriptures that disagree with your assessment on what all was recorded just wondering if that is a healthy way of study.

Nope, I have forgotten nothing. WE (the WHEAT) will endure to the end ... because of God [Philippians 2:13 "for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure." ... just to give one example of HOW it works]. THEY (the TARES) will not endure to the end ... because they do not have God [1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be evident that they all are not of us." ... just to give one example of HOW it works].

His Sheep (John 10) hear His voice and LISTEN. Those "not His sheep" do not listen and obey. So the "saved" have "ears to hear" the warnings and respond in obedience. The unsaved hear only meaningless noise and do not obey. The warnings are the METHOD that God uses to preserve us, not a warning that we are only one sin away from being rejected by God and we should live in insecurity and terror.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Nope, I have forgotten nothing. WE (the WHEAT) will endure to the end ... because of God [Philippians 2:13 "for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure." ... just to give one example of HOW it works]. THEY (the TARES) will not endure to the end ... because they do not have God [1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be evident that they all are not of us." ... just to give one example of HOW it works].

His Sheep (John 10) hear His voice and LISTEN. Those "not His sheep" do not listen and obey. So the "saved" have "ears to hear" the warnings and respond in obedience. The unsaved hear only meaningless noise and do not obey. The warnings are the METHOD that God uses to preserve us, not a warning that we are only one sin away from being rejected by God and we should live in insecurity and terror.

There is only one fault with your reasoning. You keep insisting that if one falls away they were never a part of the grace but scriptures says that is not always the case on can get saved and not finish the race and fail to remain in Gods grace. I am sorry but if you are true to the word you have had to have read such scriptures. Even the sheep can stop listening according to the word of God sorry but it does say that.

 

[BlessedPeace]

There is only one fault with your reasoning. You keep insisting that if one falls away they were never a part of the grace but scriptures says that is not always the case on can get saved and not finish the race and fail to remain in Gods grace. I am sorry but if you are true to the word you have had to have read such scriptures. Even the sheep can stop listening according to the word of God sorry but it does say that.

Not if you understand what is in scripture.

 

[atpollard]

There is only one fault with your reasoning. You keep insisting that if one falls away they were never a part of the grace but scriptures says that is not always the case on can get saved and not finish the race and fail to remain in Gods grace. I am sorry but if you are true to the word you have had to have read such scriptures. Even the sheep can stop listening according to the word of God sorry but it does say that.

We both know that "Calvinists" take a lot of flak for our strong stand on the Sovereignty of God, but I am going to let you in on a little secret (the absolute BEST part of actually believing the Doctrines of Grace from Scripture):

I am not God!

Yup, that is the best possible news (for all of us). That means that my responsibility is to TELL the truth, not to MAKE anyone believe it. Only God has the power to change HEARTS and MINDS (the core point of Grace) so the responsibility FOR changing hearts and minds falls to God and not to me.

That frees me to "tell the truth" and then leave you with my blessing whether you agree or not. I did my job ... the rest is both "above my pay grade" and in the hands of the Holy Spirit who is MUCH better qualified than I will ever be. So ...

May the Lord bless you and keep you,
May the Lord cause His face to shine upon you,
May the Lord lift up His countenance to you and grant you His perfect peace
(which imho includes the assurance of our salvation)

 

[Godslittleservant]

We both know that "Calvinists" take a lot of flak for our strong stand on the Sovereignty of God, but I am going to let you in on a little secret (the absolute BEST part of actually believing the Doctrines of Grace from Scripture):

I am not God!

Yup, that is the best possible news (for all of us). That means that my responsibility is to TELL the truth, not to MAKE anyone believe it. Only God has the power to change HEARTS and MINDS (the core point of Grace) so the responsibility FOR changing hearts and minds falls to God and not to me.

That frees me to "tell the truth" and then leave you with my blessing whether you agree or not. I did my job ... the rest is both "above my pay grade" and in the hands of the Holy Spirit who is MUCH better qualified than I will ever be. So ...

May the Lord bless you and keep you,
May the Lord cause His face to shine upon you,
May the Lord lift up His countenance to you and grant you His perfect peace
(which imho includes the assurance of our salvation)

With all due respect one has to learn the truth before one can speak the truth.We all have much learning to do.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not if you understand what is in scripture.

he calls it by grace, then says we must finish the race.

Thats not grace at all

 

[atpollard]

With all due respect one has to learn the truth before one can speak the truth. We all have much learning to do.

Fair enough.

People like to boast about their greatest achievements as a Christian. I would like to take a moment to boast about my absolute (second to none) greatest failure as a Christian. It bears directly on the question of "can a Christian (someone saved) actually lose their salvation".

Once upon a time (1979), Jesus Christ made me an offer that I couldn't refuse ... an exchange of my imminent death for a new life. This "salvation" came with one very serious condition: I had to exchange EVERYTHING I had for EVERYTHING that God had. It was an ALL or NOTHING offer. So I quit the gang, abandoned the suicide bomb plan well under way, left home and the neighborhood, quit smuggling drugs across state lines, gave up crime and never looked back. I spent the next 10 years working as a Fish Monger to support myself and attend college.

It was at college that I had my fledgling faith RAVAGED by both well-meaning Christians and not-well-meaning Secularists. By 1990, I was clinging to faith by a thread when I found myself with a degree, employed for 6 months and unemployed for over a year in a recession. With $500 cash standing between me and living in my car ... I concluded that God had not lived up to His half of our agreement. Without a doubt, I felt like God had both LEFT me and FORSAKEN me. To be completely blunt ... I was just TIRED of praying and feeling ignored.

To save gas, I walked to the nearest Church [Cornerstone Community, Church of God of Anderson Indiana] because when one is going to "QUIT" on God, one should at least be man enough to tell God to His face. The door was unlocked and the sanctuary was empty when I entered. I walked past the pews to a kneeling bench at the front (for Alter Calls, I think). There I poured out my heart to God ... There seems little point in lying to God about what you think or feel ... it is not like God does not already know. So I told Him just how angry I was. Just how tired of seeking and not finding I was. I asked Him to show me what I had done wrong and I would repent, but I HONESTLY had no idea why God was punishing me ... why He had abandoned me.

silence.

It was time to do what I had come to do. I informed God that I was finished waiting for Him. I was finished apologizing for sins I didn't even know I had committed. If God didn't want me then ... "To H**L with you!" ...

"NO!"

I never got to say the words. They had formed in my mind. I had inhaled and started to form the sounds with my lips, when I was interrupted by a single AUDIBLE command clearly spoken in that empty sanctuary. God said "No!" I was allowed to complain, but I was NOT PERMITTED to curse His name! I just exhaled, instead. There was nobody else in that room.

"You know where to find me, because I am finished chasing after you." was the last thing I said before I left.
That was Friday. I planned on driving 4 hours to Miami on Monday to use my last $500 to purchase a gun and return to smuggling drugs. God intervened that Saturday.

So I cannot speak for anyone else. Perhaps YOU can lose your salvation (what do I know about such things). However, I can state as FACT that I CANNOT lose my salvation ... I know because I tried. God would not allow it.

Apparently, God has a tighter grip on His property than many give Him credit for.

 

[marks]

Fair enough.

People like to boast about their greatest achievements as a Christian. I would like to take a moment to boast about my absolute (second to none) greatest failure as a Christian. It bears directly on the question of "can a Christian (someone saved) actually lose their salvation".

Once upon a time (1979), Jesus Christ made me an offer that I couldn't refuse ... an exchange of my imminent death for a new life. This "salvation" came with one very serious condition: I had to exchange EVERYTHING I had for EVERYTHING that God had. It was an ALL or NOTHING offer. So I quit the gang, abandoned the suicide bomb plan well under way, left home and the neighborhood, quit smuggling drugs across state lines, gave up crime and never looked back. I spent the next 10 years working as a Fish Monger to support myself and attend college.

It was at college that I had my fledgling faith RAVAGED by both well-meaning Christians and not-well-meaning Secularists. By 1990, I was clinging to faith by a thread when I found myself with a degree, employed for 6 months and unemployed for over a year in a recession. With $500 cash standing between me and living in my car ... I concluded that God had not lived up to His half of our agreement. Without a doubt, I felt like God had both LEFT me and FORSAKEN me. To be completely blunt ... I was just TIRED of praying and feeling ignored.

To save gas, I walked to the nearest Church [Cornerstone Community, Church of God of Anderson Indiana] because when one is going to "QUIT" on God, one should at least be man enough to tell God to His face. The door was unlocked and the sanctuary was empty when I entered. I walked past the pews to a kneeling bench at the front (for Alter Calls, I think). There I poured out my heart to God ... There seems little point in lying to God about what you think or feel ... it is not like God does not already know. So I told Him just how angry I was. Just how tired of seeking and not finding I was. I asked Him to show me what I had done wrong and I would repent, but I HONESTLY had no idea why God was punishing me ... why He had abandoned me.

silence.

It was time to do what I had come to do. I informed God that I was finished waiting for Him. I was finished apologizing for sins I didn't even know I had committed. If God didn't want me then ... "To H**L with you!" ...

"NO!"

I never got to say the words. They had formed in my mind. I had inhaled and started to form the sounds with my lips, when I was interrupted by a single AUDIBLE command clearly spoken in that empty sanctuary. God said "No!" I was allowed to complain, but I was NOT PERMITTED to curse His name! I just exhaled, instead. There was nobody else in that room.

"You know where to find me, because I am finished chasing after you." was the last thing I said before I left.
That was Friday. I planned on driving 4 hours to Miami on Monday to use my last $500 to purchase a gun and return to smuggling drugs. God intervened that Saturday.

So I cannot speak for anyone else. Perhaps YOU can lose your salvation (what do I know about such things). However, I can state as FACT that I CANNOT lose my salvation ... I know because I tried. God would not allow it.

Apparently, God has a tighter grip on His property than many give Him credit for.

I read these posts arguing back and forth and wonder whether they really even know God. And I wonder, for those who really do know God, how one could ever think that He'd toss you back! Only because some people twist the Words they don't understand, so that they can glory in the flesh of others, telling them they'd better be good!

Much love!

 

[Godslittleservant]

Fair enough.

People like to boast about their greatest achievements as a Christian. I would like to take a moment to boast about my absolute (second to none) greatest failure as a Christian. It bears directly on the question of "can a Christian (someone saved) actually lose their salvation".

Once upon a time (1979), Jesus Christ made me an offer that I couldn't refuse ... an exchange of my imminent death for a new life. This "salvation" came with one very serious condition: I had to exchange EVERYTHING I had for EVERYTHING that God had. It was an ALL or NOTHING offer. So I quit the gang, abandoned the suicide bomb plan well under way, left home and the neighborhood, quit smuggling drugs across state lines, gave up crime and never looked back. I spent the next 10 years working as a Fish Monger to support myself and attend college.

It was at college that I had my fledgling faith RAVAGED by both well-meaning Christians and not-well-meaning Secularists. By 1990, I was clinging to faith by a thread when I found myself with a degree, employed for 6 months and unemployed for over a year in a recession. With $500 cash standing between me and living in my car ... I concluded that God had not lived up to His half of our agreement. Without a doubt, I felt like God had both LEFT me and FORSAKEN me. To be completely blunt ... I was just TIRED of praying and feeling ignored.

To save gas, I walked to the nearest Church [Cornerstone Community, Church of God of Anderson Indiana] because when one is going to "QUIT" on God, one should at least be man enough to tell God to His face. The door was unlocked and the sanctuary was empty when I entered. I walked past the pews to a kneeling bench at the front (for Alter Calls, I think). There I poured out my heart to God ... There seems little point in lying to God about what you think or feel ... it is not like God does not already know. So I told Him just how angry I was. Just how tired of seeking and not finding I was. I asked Him to show me what I had done wrong and I would repent, but I HONESTLY had no idea why God was punishing me ... why He had abandoned me.

silence.

It was time to do what I had come to do. I informed God that I was finished waiting for Him. I was finished apologizing for sins I didn't even know I had committed. If God didn't want me then ... "To H**L with you!" ...

"NO!"

I never got to say the words. They had formed in my mind. I had inhaled and started to form the sounds with my lips, when I was interrupted by a single AUDIBLE command clearly spoken in that empty sanctuary. God said "No!" I was allowed to complain, but I was NOT PERMITTED to curse His name! I just exhaled, instead. There was nobody else in that room.

"You know where to find me, because I am finished chasing after you." was the last thing I said before I left.
That was Friday. I planned on driving 4 hours to Miami on Monday to use my last $500 to purchase a gun and return to smuggling drugs. God intervened that Saturday.

So I cannot speak for anyone else. Perhaps YOU can lose your salvation (what do I know about such things). However, I can state as FACT that I CANNOT lose my salvation ... I know because I tried. God would not allow it.

Apparently, God has a tighter grip on His property than many give Him credit for.

Yes that is an awesome testimony and I am glad to hear that you did not give up and found peace in God.
This is what I have been trying to get you to understand. Yes many have storied like this and many repent and return to God but some let this kind of thing harden their heart so mush that when God says no to them they refuse him and carry on. Yes God is always working with us to strengthen us but some get so hardened that God lets them to their way.God does not force anyone to love him yes he has the power to do so but that is not his will. God wants us to love him as he has loved us. He does not force anyone to love him he want it to come freely and from the heart.

He sent out the call and waits for our response and if we do respond he works with us to help us endure to finish the race as Paul calls it but does not control us.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

He knew 1600 years before

Or: He Knew from Eternity Past, being Omniscient, And Inspired That 'To Be Written' 1600 years before?

Amen.

 

[marks]

He does not force anyone to love him he want it to come freely and from the heart.

Having now done so, being born again, this matter is already settled.

And having become His child, His promise stands true:

Hebrews 12:6-11 KJV
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

God WILL chasten us as needed, and His chastening WILL BE effective.

Much love!

 

[bro.tan]

The key word in verse 30 is the first word. But...
In general, against their law.

Acts 10:28 NIV
He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile.
But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.

Before then, remember what Jesus says in John 10: 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

So these are other sheep which in Acts 10 Chapter Peter is talking about, but was mention here. This the other fold is the Gentiles.

 

[St. SteVen]

Before then, remember what Jesus says in John 10: 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

So these are other sheep which in Acts 10 Chapter Peter is talking about, but was mention here. This the other fold is the Gentiles.

We agree then?
I don't see this as a rebuttal. (not that I wanted one)
Or did I misunderstand you?