If you categorize the vitriol and acrimony as merely disagreeing, bless your heart.
Question for non-JW's
- Thread starter Wrangler
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The dangerous CAN.
Just because one CAN do something does not mean they SHOULD do that thing.
Why can’t someone stick to the thread topic? Why do some feel entitled to hijack every thread to the axe they have to grind? Do you know that starting a new thread is FREE here at CyB?
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Well, LOL, there is an element of truth in the song... I am woman, hear me roar.
Wait.....I am taking this to another thread......
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I was not asking these question because I lacked an answer myself, but since the “born again” phrase is so often repeated by this poster, I would like @Ritajanice to define what she thinks being “born again” actually means, and what the purpose of this rebirth is in the big picture?
Was I asking too much?
I agree, which is why I asked. Being anointed with the holy spirit for life in heaven carries with it the deeper knowledge of why these “saints” are chosen for this role…and why all Christians are not, and never said to be of “the heavenly calling” (Heb 3:1)
It’s one thing to say that you are “born again” but explaining its purpose is something else entirely. How can someone who claims to be “born again” (so often) be devoid of such knowledge?
Those truly “born again” know exactly what it means, and what their choosing is for.
Saying that “you will never understand unless you are born again yourself”…is a cop out IMO.
As I said….I was not asking because I lack understanding of the truth….it was the very opposite, giving this boaster an opportunity to explain what it means, since she mentions it in every post. The silence so far has been deafening.
I am not that thin skinned….I want to promote Bible truth, which I found so sadly lacking in the church I was raised in. I came to realize that all of Christendom subscribed to the same core of false teachings. No wonder nothing made sense to me.
When I began my Bible study with Jehovah’s Witnesses, I had no idea how much of what I was taught in church had no biblical foundation whatsoever. The Bible was read in bits on a Sunday but the minister never put the pieces together so that any big picture emerged….it was like a jigsaw puzzle with all the pieces that linked them, missing. This little group of pieces and that little group of pieces never met….it frustrated me to no end.
When you have a jigsaw puzzle, you rely on the picture on the box to see where all the pieces fit, and that is what my study did….for the first time in my life I saw the big picture and all the pieces fell into place…it was the most exciting time for me….the one who had a million questions……and they were all answered…and from the only source that mattered to me….God’s word.
I finally understood what the Lord’s Prayer was all about….I had been parroting off that prayer all my life without any understanding about what Jesus was teaching his disciples with those words.
I smile when I hear people talk about JW’s in a most derogatory way, not because they are horrible people but because they don’t support Christendom’s doctrines and want only to promote Bible truth. It’s not the “truth” that most in Christendom have accepted, so it must be wrong……that was the same attitude that resulted in the Jews rejecting Jesus and what he taught. History is repeating and people don’t notice.
Like the Jews in the first century, most in Christendom don’t want the truth because of what that means……it means rejecting false doctrines that have been inculcated for many since birth….the brainwashed trying to tell the ones who have cleansed themselves that they need to go back to the spiritual dirt that has been dished up for centuries.
Daniel wrote his prophesies concerning “the time of the end” and said that God would cleanse a people at this time, warning that the wicked would reject the cleansing to retain their false beliefs. These he said would have no “insight or understanding”. (Daniel 12:4, 9-10) He also spoke of an “abundance of knowledge” being made available at this time…..and here we are, we have so much knowledge now that goes to waste because people are comfortable allowing their clergy to know it all for them, too lazy to even do any Bible study for themselves.
Once you see Christendom for what she really is…there is no going back. She is the most reprehensible part of “Babylon the great” and we are told in no uncertain terms to “get out of her” if we do not want to reap what she has sown. (Rev 18:4-5) This command was addressed to God’s “people”, which begs the question, “how did God’s people come to be IN “Babylon the great” in the first place?
How would you answer that question?
A Born Again as I have told you, is a child of God they have been birthed by the Spirit of God....a supernatural act that only God can do.
Spirit gives birth to spirit.
For someone to understand what I’m saying through the Holy Spirit, that one must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God....if they weren’t Born Again they wouldn’t have a clue what I was saying.
How do I know that God Jesus exists....?
How does anyone know that God exists?
You must be Born Again to know that.
You can only become Born Again....Through the “ LIVING “ word of God....His word is Spirit and Truth.
John 3
King James Version
3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
24 For John was not yet cast into prison.
25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
The word of God isn’t a book.
His Holy Word the Bible is Alive ....it’s NOT dead.
His Holy Word the Bible is Alive ....it’s NOT dead.
| Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. New Living Translation For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires. English Standard Version For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. |
Who leads you through God’s word?
God’s word says you must be Born Again.
He doesn’t say you must be anointed with the Holy Spirit for life in heaven carries with it deeper knowledge of why these saints,are chosen for this role.
You have added to God’s word....therefore void of any power....words of religion.man made religion and man made understanding.
Online commentary.
The Bible often describes our human nature using the term "flesh." The Greek term is sarx, which is frequently used as a reference to the sin-prone condition of human beings. It's a poetic reference to our weakness, and our hostility towards God. This is the exact opposite of the Spirit, which is from God (Philippians 3:3; John 1:33). This is the reason that a rebirth is necessary.
The phrase "born again" has become a cliché, so it means very little to most people. However, the difference between the flesh and the Spirit is the reason why rebirth is necessary. Those who are part of "the flesh" are totally incapable of loving, obeying, or knowing God. A sinful human nature makes this impossible. In order to be reunited with God, a person has to have their nature changed. This cannot happen through normal means. It requires that a person be "born again," this time in the Spirit of God
You must be Born Again to know that God exists and it’s all done through the Holy Spirit....who also testifies with our spirit that we are his children...
Much more to it than that..we are drawn to Jesus by God..he also brings us to repentance/ Godly sorrow...he even brings us to believe in Jesus.
Without believing in Jesus there would be no rebirth....God is the one who opens the heart...
The Bible often describes our human nature using the term "flesh." The Greek term is sarx, which is frequently used as a reference to the sin-prone condition of human beings. It's a poetic reference to our weakness, and our hostility towards God. This is the exact opposite of the Spirit, which is from God (Philippians 3:3; John 1:33). This is the reason that a rebirth is necessary.
The phrase "born again" has become a cliché, so it means very little to most people. However, the difference between the flesh and the Spirit is the reason why rebirth is necessary. Those who are part of "the flesh" are totally incapable of loving, obeying, or knowing God. A sinful human nature makes this impossible. In order to be reunited with God, a person has to have their nature changed. This cannot happen through normal means. It requires that a person be "born again," this time in the Spirit of God
You must be Born Again to know that God exists and it’s all done through the Holy Spirit....who also testifies with our spirit that we are his children...
Much more to it than that..we are drawn to Jesus by God..he also brings us to repentance/ Godly sorrow...he even brings us to believe in Jesus.
Without believing in Jesus there would be no rebirth....God is the one who opens the heart...
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
You repeat this over and over but there is no explanation as to why anyone NEEDS TO BE “born again”…what is the purpose of it?….you never give the reason for it….nothing about what it means to “see the kingdom”….so what is the “Kingdom” that you are going to “see” and what will you do there? What is your role? If you don’t know the answers to those questions then your claim to me is hollow. Anyone can say that are “born again” but you have to know why.
I personally know those who are anointed for life in heaven among my own brotherhood, though they are few in number now as we approach the end of this current world system, and they have no hesitation at all in explaining what their anointing means, what the “Kingdom” is, where they will serve God, and in what capacity they will serve. You seem to have no clue about the big picture, and are devoid of the kind of knowledge that the holy spirit provides to these ones.
I will repeat you must be Born Again all over this forum.....for Without the rebirth..you are dead and in sin...there is no life in one’s spirit.
What do you mean I give no reason for this.
God is the one who gives the reason ,not me.
You need to be Born Again to see his Kingdom....his Spiritual Kingdom here on Earth...you need those spiritual eyes and ears,,,,that new heart and Spirit he puts within...
When God gave us the Spirit, He opened our eyes to see and experience Him. After the Spirit comes into our hearts, He gives us gifts that open our eyes. First, He gives us understanding which is an eye in the Spirit to know God( Eph. 1:18). Second, the Spirit brings the spirit of prophecy, which opens our eyes to see visions as John did in the book of Revelation or Balaam in Num. 22:31 above.
You personally know nothing.......your talk here is man made religion...nowhere in God’s word is this preached..this is all man made teaching and rubbish to a Born Again,imo/ belief....
you must be Born Again...you can only be Born Again by the Spirit of God...all biblical.
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
You don’t seem to see a purpose to your being “born again“ aside from the airy fairy definitions you give.
The truth is the truth…it’s not “pie in the sky“ and it all fits in with the big picture which in the scriptures begins in Genesis and ends in Revelation. It is one story and unless you can tell me why there was even a need for this kingdom in the first place, you seem to have no clue as to what God’s purpose is in connection with his anointed ones and his kingdom. From the scriptures, can to tell me what God’s kingdom is exactly?
He certainly does, but you have a hard time giving any explanations about his purpose in making this kingdom arrangement. In the beginning there was no need for a kingdom, no need for a savior to redeem fallen mankind and everlasting life was to be lived on earth, for humans…..not in heaven.
How do you fit your beliefs into the big picture? They must of necessity fit or again, your words and claims are hollow.
Where does Jesus speak of this “spiritual kingdom on earth”?
Seeing through “spiritual eyes” and hearing with “spiritual ears” should give you a very clear view as to what your choosing will entail…..but you seem clueless.
What is the purpose of being “born again”…..not the fact that you see yourself as such, but WHY?.….you continually evade this question.
For one who has such understanding, you sure don’t present as someone with a vast knowledge of scripture……all you do is parrot off the same scriptures as if they are supposed to answer the questions put to you….they never do. You need to explain how those scriptures apply.
That is your opinion….your talk here is also man made. Who taught you your “Christianity”….the fact is we all believe the words of men because we trust the ones who tell us what to believe…..Jesus will be the one who reveals the truth about all of it……won’t it be interesting to see who is rejected as those he “never knew”?
Yes we all express our own opinions, but the truth is out there, and God will indeed reveal it to those who are genuine seekers….we can count on that. (John 6:44, 65) What we can’t count on is our own treacherous hearts that will try to justify what is not truth, just because it suits what we want to believe.
Are you being serious?....LOL
Ephesians 1
New International Version
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,To God’s holy people in Ephesus,[a] the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Praise for Spiritual Blessings in Christ
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love5 he[b] predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood,the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.11 In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Thanksgiving and Prayer
15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God’s people, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[f] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.The truth is that one must be Born Again.....this you speak above, is NOT God’s word...it’s your personal understanding of God’s Living word.
None of what you say here is scriptural.
When we are Born from Above....we are one in Spirit with God...
Paul said, "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17), not one soul. The resurrected Lord is the life-giving Spirit therefore, His union with the believers is His union with the believers’ spirit.
John 3:3
King James Version
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.Again man made facts about God’s Holy Bible.
God is the one who says you must be Born Again...and thank fully I have been birthed in the Spirit
A Born Again is in the Spiritual Kingdom of God......a Born Again has received the LIVING Holy Spirit into their heart....God is ALIVE in Spirit?
Therefore .of course His Holy Spirit is on earth.....His Holy Spirit which is Alive indwells every Born Again.....he resides in their spirit?
Are you saying God doesn’t see all that is going on ,on this Earth?
Are you saying that the Holy Spirit doesn’t reside in the heart/ spirit of his child?
Therefore it’s the Holy Spirit who is on the earth.....did you know he comes from God.?
Did you know that the Holy Spirit who is on the earth....who is Spirit and from God....he is the one who brings the Kingdom of God Alive in our hearts/ Spirit.....therefore only a Born Again will see the Kingdom of God.
A Born Again sees it through the Holy Spirit.....why..because they have been born of God.they have been given those spiritual eyes and ears.
Why do you think God sent his Holy Spirit?
I pray in Jesus Name...that all those who are deceived...comes to know your truth Lord.
JW are deceived and still dead in their sin...the same as those who aren’t Born Again.
I pray that you draw them to your beloved Son / Jesus...open their hearts, as only you can do that Father God and birth them in the Spirit.
In Jesus Name....Amen.
Lord I know you are in control....therefore I rest in you.
Everything I post is scriptural....I can’t answer any of your questions...if they don’t make sense...they aren’t even scriptural.
You aren’t taught on how to become Born Again....show me in God’s word where we must know learn how to be Born Again?
No...it’s the Holy Spirit of today...that testifies the truth of God and Jesus.....JW can’t do that....
We must be Born Again....that is the truth of God’s Living word.
The truth is most definitely out there.
God’s word says.
We must be BORN AGAIN....
JW..is a cult....man made religion...brainwashing leadership....
The Lord told Nicodemus unequivocally, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit” (John 3:6). Only the Spirit of the living God can take dry bones, dead in trespasses and rebellion against God, and make them spiritually alive (Ephesians 2:1-5).
By the way....a Born Again ..can only understand scripture through the leading of the Holy Spirit.
His Spirit witnesses to our spirit God’s truth.....therefore all that I know has been taught to me by the Holy Spirit......you must be Born Again..
Do you believe you can actually lead yourself through scripture, in your own strength?
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BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Tact is an issue of course.
However, I think we need consider The Watchtower Society, JW's, are following a false teaching.
I would think love seeks to point those in a false faith toward the light of Christ.
This is WAY beyond tact and precisely the kind of hubris that is the root cause of turning people off, in seeing how we treat each other - never ending acrimony over each side claiming the other is "following a false teaching."
Jesus said by how we love each other the world will know we are his disciples. He did not say the world will know we are his disciples by relentlessly attacking those who teach false doctrine. Therefore, the world sees us as a bunch of hypocrites.
My son-in-law's parents are life long JW's. Although I am from out of State, I've met them numerous times and we've had nothing but very nice times together. No one is using the opportunity to proselytize and turn things ugly. We enjoy each others company, living life together, spending time loving on our children and grandchildren. This is the way. The way is not to list again all the ways what you believe is not quite right, especially in light of how to interpret words in an ancient, foreign language!
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
I think we have to realize on the Internet people can become anyone in this anonymous environment.
Not everyone who claims to be Christian,JW, Catholic,etc..are.
They assume the identity and then plague a board by condemning other denominations from that platform. They intentionally cultivate conflict. They play the victim,living off sympathy,and then attack Christians in any number of ways.When rebuffed they hide behind the victim persona as an shield against responsibility for their behaviors.
Personal experience there witnessing such behaviors for years at other forums I was a member of. So,
seeing those types here after so many years away from those other sites,it appears to be endemic as
a Troll agenda.
The historical Christians have what is called a rule of faith. Anything that varies against those tenants is false doctrine. Those who contradict Major doctrine like Jesus is God, The Trinity, Jesus fully God and fully Man are cults.
Hmm... but who are/were these historical Christians who have/had it all right?
What is the answer to my second question?
"Who always knows the mind of God?"
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I often think the same about you since all you can say is "I am born again" with no real idea as to what it means, apart from the airy fairy descriptions you give. What is the purpose of being "born again" ? Why did God choose you? What will be the point of it if you cant tell us why you were chosen apart from the fact that you believe you are? You can't even tell me what God's Kingdom is, and yet our commission from Jesus is to preach and teach about it....(Matt 24:14)
And what you post is YOUR personal understanding....we both can't be right.....so who is in for a surprise at the end of the day?
Jesus will let us both know.....won't he?
Everything I post is scriptural.
Is there no purpose to being "born again" except the feeling that you are? That is what makes no sense to me.
Yes, but again you evade the questions.....what is the reason for God to choose some from among mankind as "firstfruits" and take them to heaven? (Rev 14:1-5) If you don't know, then I can only assume that you are misled.
Please give us the reason why God chose some humans to go to heaven, when he designed us to live on this beautifully prepared earth? Was Adam ever told about heaven and hell? If not, why not?
And herein lies the dilemma.....because what I say makes no sense to you, yet it is all scripturally backed.....can you really assume that you can't be the one in error, in spite of the fact that you are the one with no answers for anything?
What do you think Christendom is? It is one gigantic man made "cult", if you want to use that definition....all based on the teachings of men. These men have an agenda and satan is the sower promoting of all the "weeds" of his false religion.
When the Pharisees were accusing Jesus of blasphemy....who were the real blasphemers? Did they believe that they were? Or was Jesus just a trouble making "cult leader" who needed to be exposed and silenced?
Yes, but did Nicodemus ever get the message? The Bible does not say that he ever became a believer. He came to Jesus on the quiet because he didn't want the Jews to think he was a traitor. Fear of man is a snare. It took courage in that environment to be "different."
You are quite correct in saying that only those chosen by God can be "born again"....but the genuinely "born again" know exactly what their choosing means and they already know before their resurrection what role they will play in the Kingdom of God....since you appear to be absolutely clueless, apart from your oft quoted verses....I am left to question the validity of your claim.
There is no doubt in my mind that God chooses his "saints" and has, by his spirit conveyed to these ones the reason for their choosing.
I have yet to hear any reasons at all as to what your "born again" status will mean in the big scheme of things....it appears that you don't have a big picture at all, but are simply staring at a few small pieces in one corner of the box.
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