NEWSFLASH: Abraham was not a Jew. Neither was Isaac. Neither was Jacob.

[Timtofly]

I won't even tell you where to find the answer to your above ridiculous question.

You can just go on being snarky like all the other posters then. Since you tend to interrupt silly conversations anyways.

I was not looking for any answers from people who deny God's Word and exchange it for their own human theology.

You all talk about me anyways, like I am not even here.

 

[Timtofly]

You added to the words of Paul again with the above false statement, Why?

"Is" not going to bother now with biblical truth. He's done this with me before when he just starts throwing out arguments for the sake of the arguments in attempts to be correct about something he asserted.

You are the one throwing out arguments for the sake of arguments.

It is not a false statement. You deny the Millennial reign of Christ. So you deny what Paul is stating.

Israel will be restored and be the chief among nations. Read the OT promises.

 

[Timtofly]

So you are saying that no Jewish person is born a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob|Israel?

We are talking about Israel.

Is Israel a spiritual term or physical term?

People are still of Jacob. Why would that change?

Why did Jesus tell Nicodemus, a ruler of Sanhedrin who was a natural branch, he would now have to be born again. Do you get spiritually born twice? Obviously Nicodemus already thought he was a spiritual Israelite, no?

 

[Zao is life]

Hard to argue with that, but I will point out that... they aren't part of that group! If this is racism, it is an awfully strange racism. What racist doesn't include himself among the ubermensch? Who is the racist that discriminates in favor of another group, and not against all others?

Exalting another people over your own people is racism against your own people, IMO. Yes, a very strange, self-hating kind of racism, but racism nonetheless, IMO.

Otherwise we agree.

 

[Zao is life]

You all talk about me anyways, like I am not even here.

I won't do that again. I apologize. But I won't respond to anything you say about Israel or who the name belongs to anymore either because your posts are very confused, IMO.

 

[Zao is life]

Is Israel a spiritual term or physical term?

Israel is not a 'term'. It's the name of a person, and of a nation.

If all Americans were named after Lincoln and all Americans were descendants of Lincoln, then the USA would be called Lincoln.

People are still of Jacob. Why would that change?

It has not changed according to their flesh, their birth. But they have been broken off. You're the one who asserts that it's changed the meaning of Israel.

Why did Jesus tell Nicodemus, a ruler of Sanhedrin who was a natural branch, he would now have to be born again. Do you get spiritually born twice? Obviously Nicodemus already thought he was a spiritual Israelite, no?

He said that which is born of the flesh (a descendant of Jacob|Israel or of any other nation) is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. He explained, to someone who He said should have known, that the new birth is spiritual.

You are making yourself answer with the same ignorance that Nicodemus did. Those who are born of the Spirit of Christ do not suddenly start living in spiritual bodies. They remain Jews, or French, or Chinese, or whatever. Jews are also Israelites according to their birth,

But Paul explained that unbelieving Jews are broken off from God's promise and covenant with Abraham and his seed (Christ) through their unbelief and rejection of the seed of Abraham (Christ). Therefore they are no longer considered of Israel, who was also the seed of Abraham.

Paul also explained that not everyone who is born of Israel belongs to Israel because it's about Abraham's faith in God's promise about the seed of promise, who is Christ. Not all who were born of Israel believed God like Abraham did. So they did not really belong to Israel.

It's kind of like someone who was born in America and who lives in America but rejects the U.S constitution and U.S law, considering the U.S illegitimate, and honoring only the constitution and laws of another country situated on another continent, and who rejects the people of America and considers the founders of the U.S.A and all other Americans non-Americans.

He's a citizen in name, only.

But it's not a perfect analogy to make, only kind of like, because those Jews who are broken off from Israel have not retained their citizenship and will only regain it as descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob IF they repent of their unbelief. But like someone born in America is a natural American, they are natural branches - branches by birth who have been broken off. They've lost their citizenship, their birthright, through their rejection of God's constitution, which comes about through their unbelief.

You're all over the place with this, extracting meanings about what Jesus and Paul taught that are not there, and also adding meanings that are not there.​

 

[Jack]

God bless Israel!

 

[covenantee]

God bless Israel!

You mean the Israel that kills Palestinian Christians.

 

[Zao is life]

God bless Israel!

Israel = all nations, tribes and tongues in Christ, who is the seed in whom all nations of the earth are blessed who was promised to our father Abraham.

God bless Israel, and pray for all who are not in Christ to be joined to Israel through faith in Jesus!

Pray especially for those who told Jesus they have Abraham for their father, but did not, and do not, because of their rejection of the seed of Abraham, because faith in Jesus is the only way to be a citizen of Israel, which is not one country, but a multitude of nations in Christ.

God bless Israel, and pray for all who are not in Christ to be joined to Israel through faith in Jesus!​

 

[Randy Kluth]

You mean the Israel that kills Palestinian Christians.

That's a pretty sick statement. Unless you qualify your statement, you're consigning an entire nation to a genocidal attitude. And I find that attitude to be truer of the Palestinians than of Israel. What on earth do you mean then?

 

[Randy Kluth]

It has not changed according to their flesh, their birth. But they have been broken off. You're the one who asserts that it's changed the meaning of Israel.

I think you're missing Timothy's point. Even if Israel has been "broken off," it is not that they have stopped being a People who were promised perpetual forgiveness, that even if they were "broken off" they could be restored.

Israel did not stop being "Israel" when they were "broken off." Rather, they just stopped containing the Kingdom of God and representing God in their national life. This was always the result when they not only sinned in part, but in whole, destroying utterly the entire Covenant Agreement. The legal agreement was torn apart which had made them the People of God. But the promise of Restoration remains, in my opinion.

But Paul explained that unbelieving Jews are broken off from God's promise and covenant with Abraham and his seed (Christ) through their unbelief and rejection of the seed of Abraham (Christ). Therefore they are no longer considered of Israel, who was also the seed of Abraham.​

Anybody in Israel, even while they were in covenant under the Law, were excised and cast off from the nation when they rebelled. The entire nation, in their apostasy and rebellion, were completely cut off from representing God in their temple worship and in the land of Israel, because their temple was destroyed, and they were exiled, away from their land.

None of this meant that a burning up of the Covenant Document could not see restoration, or mercy. Mercy transcends a failure of the entire system, even when there is no longer available any repair under that system itself. How can one atone for their sins under temple law when the Temple no longer exists? And yet God restored Israel after the Babylonian Captivity *by mercy!*

So Israel's being broken as by a complete failure of the Law does not mean that mercy has ceased to exist. God has promised that mercy would *always* be available to those who would eventually make use of it.

Obviously, it will never be available to those who *never* wish to repent. They will be cast off forever, but Israel can be restored as a nation *through repentance* and via *mercy!* At least, that's how I see it.

The belief that Israel cannot be restored *ever* is based on past performance, in which Israel as a nation has failed to repent and embrace Christianity for 2000 years. And I understand that. It is a legitimate Christian position to take, even though I think it is untrue.

I think, personally, that God's Word has yet to be fully revealed, and that the necessary changes will take place *at* the Coming of Christ, and not before. It's just a matter of whether we believe in a literal Millennium or not.

 

[Jack]

You mean the Israel that kills Palestinian Christians.

I mean Israel, the Land of the Bible, Jerusalem is its Capital. Why aren't you attacking Hamas who causes all of this.

 

[Jack]

Israel = all nations, tribes and tongues in Christ, who is the seed in whom all nations of the earth are blessed who was promised to our father Abraham.

God bless Israel, and pray for all who are not in Christ to be joined to Israel through faith in Jesus!

Pray especially for those who told Jesus they have Abraham for their father, but did not, and do not, because of their rejection of the seed of Abraham, because faith in Jesus is the only way to be a citizen of Israel, which is not one country, but a multitude of nations in Christ.

God bless Israel, and pray for all who are not in Christ to be joined to Israel through faith in Jesus!​

I pray for Israel every day.

 

[Timtofly]

It has not changed according to their flesh, their birth. But they have been broken off. You're the one who asserts that it's changed the meaning of Israel.

I have never stated the term Israel has changed.

There is only one Israel, and that is Israel in Christ.

 

[Jack]

It has not changed according to their flesh, their birth. But they have been broken off.

Israel broken off?

 

[ewq1938]

I think you're missing Timothy's point. Even if Israel has been "broken off," it is not that they have stopped being a People who were promised perpetual forgiveness, that even if they were "broken off" they could be restored.

There is no perpetual forgiveness. There is only forgiveness of sin through Christ and if not in Christ, no forgiveness.

 

[Randy Kluth]

There is no perpetual forgiveness. There is only forgiveness of sin through Christ and if not in Christ, no forgiveness.

By your response I can tell that you don't understand, or won't understand, the point? The promise is that the currently Lost will *get found* in the future, when Christ returns. The ungodly who reject Christ in perpetuity will be removed from this Kingdom, or will simply assent to the national consensus to embrace Christianity. Those who reject Christ in Israel will *not* be saved.

The idea, from my point of view, is that there will be this *political salvation* of a nation, that is undergirded by a consensus among those who repent. They will be ethnic Jews as a majority, and will fulfill what I think God promised to Moses, that whenever Israel falls into apostasy, they can return *through repentance.* I'm not saying anything other than what you're saying, that salvation is by Christ alone!

 

[ewq1938]

By your response I can tell that you don't understand, or won't understand, the point? The promise is that the currently Lost will *get found* in the future, when Christ returns. The ungodly who reject Christ in perpetuity will be removed from this Kingdom, or will simply assent to the national consensus to embrace Christianity.

There is no such official thing but the majority always has rejected Christ and does today, and will tomorrow. The majority will never embrace Christianity which is why only a remnant is ever written about.

Those who reject Christ in Israel will *not* be saved.

Which is most Jews, and most humanity.

The idea, from my point of view, is that there will be this *political salvation* of a nation, that is undergirded by a consensus among those who repent.

Salvation can only be personal, not "political" and not national.

They will be ethnic Jews as a majority, and will fulfill what I think God promised to Moses, that whenever Israel falls into apostasy, they can return *through repentance.* I'm not saying anything other than what you're saying, that salvation is by Christ alone!

But you preach political and national salvation which isn't biblical.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Exalting another people over your own people is racism against your own people, IMO. Yes, a very strange, self-hating kind of racism, but racism nonetheless, IMO.

Otherwise we agree.

Racism against yourself ? or others of your own race ?
I think it's just called honesty ! and the Truth.
Racism discriminates and to be able to discriminate means that one has a functioning brain in fact !
One who points out issues openly about yourself or others, is a Christian and why do they do such ? because there is an issue that needs to be addressed in fact ! we are not owned, for we have every right to discriminate any difference, why because it's True, if such was not true then that would only be prejudice as such, is then stupid.

Like a Father who is the head of the House ? well he should be by rights unless he is not worthy ? but he addresses the issues at hand due to the love for his family well being and future, that's why he calls things out or into perspective in fact.

Not to mention the same issues within his own Town or State or Nation, that's why one has the right to a Vote ! One is not a Slave ? but one can become a slave !
If you are not truly born again you are a Slave in fact ! why well because such a one is Lost and not Saved !
So the workings of the Devil will work, so as to undermine your rights in fact ? in such an underhanded cunning way like Socialism does !

Hitler was a Socialist ! and as such Socialism only want to dominate over others, like a mongrel dog does. for it has no Soul and no Class for it's dead workings of Man, devoid from Christ Jesus in fact ! So such has not Grace ! and that's why they look down on everyone in fact ! They work to undermine all and put you all down and claim everyone is equal ? Like one in Jail is equal ! and one can not get out of the System for the system does not have Grace in fact ! for they have no Class, so their is nothing to aspire too ! for you have not life ?

Christ Jesus came that you may have life in abundance ! That door was opened when Christ Jesus went to Heaven ! and all of the worthy people of God became the first Christians in fact, for the Old had cracked like an egg hatched into a new Beginning ! As before that day all had been Slaves to the workings of Man ?
But now we had the Glory from that day forward, so that we can over come that Curse, for Christ Jesus in fact for he is our Lord and Saviour !
If you do not abide in him first and foremost who do you serve ? Socialism ? The Jews had Socialism for that had not Grace in fact.

One must expose evil and issues that are not up to scratch, so as too be worthy of Christ Jesus in fact ! One should be able to tell the difference between the quality within anything, be it a Car, House, Road, Town you name it people as well, and if that is that case in fact, so be it, why well it's for their own good, so as too have a good look at themselves in fact, because they may be the problem ! Worthy Christians are never in denial ! and we do look at our selves and see room for honest and frank assessment, regarding ourselves and we thank people for their genuine loving concern or even abuse in some regard could be justified ? but we should not fall into the traps set regarding stupid made up Laws that Socialism creates to undermine ones rights to speak out.

Quality issues ? If the quality of the New car is an issue so be it, the same with any person or maybe even a people ? One lacks Class ? well that is an issue ! One who is below par is just that and that could be an issue ? A Nation may be below par ? so be it and call such out !
We call China out on Issues !
We should call our own Media out, so as to clean their act up big time and stop being like Nazi Germany was and Communist Satanist morons, who are working so as to undermine everyone with so many lies and deceptions.

Hey i call Islam out for such a gutless moronic mongrel attack on the State called Israel and i give them no credibility at all, but outright condemnation of such an attack ! but it's typical of such people and the MSM to play such a Goat ! I do not give any of them two any credit, for they are both doing the workings of Satan in fact.
I don't look up to Islamic People in general nor do i the MSM ! Why, well i will give credit to they who deserve it ? for not all people are equal in fact, some are lower than low in fact ! Truth be told, such is a reality in fact.

 

[Randy Kluth]

There is no such official thing but the majority always has rejected Christ and does today, and will tomorrow. The majority will never embrace Christianity which is why only a remnant is ever written about.

This is why we can never agree on this. Israel has returned from the brink before. They did that after the Babylonian Captivity. And Jesus said that was not the worst "punishment" that Israel would experience. They would begin the worst tribulation in history in his generation, which was in 70 AD and continuing until the end of the age.

But again, Israel will be restored. To say that won't or can't happen is a huge preumption on your part. It's like saying a nation can never adopt Christianity as their official religion, which is patently false. It's like saying someone you know who isn't now a Christian can never become a Christian.

It's a terrible judgment on your part. It is one thing to say you don't *think* it will happen, or to say that you don't believe there will be time after Christ comes again. But no, you just say it *can't* happen. I take serious exception with that.

Salvation can only be personal, not "political" and not national.

On the contrary, Israel was saved many times from their enemies. That is a political salvation.