They quote and publish LDS sources. Check the quotes from your own people in those posts.
Proselyting Techniques of Mormon Missionaries
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most of that sounds good, why are you LDS? What is your concept of pre-existence for people?
Christ is God become man, the fullness of God who was pleased to dwell in Jesus Christ (Col. 1:19)
Let's look at that creed,
1.. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic [universal] faith;
2.. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
3.. And the catholic [universal] faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
4.. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
5.. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
6.. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
7.. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
8.. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
9.. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
10.. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
11.. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
12.. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible,
13.. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
14.. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
15.. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16.. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
17.. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
18.. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
19.. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
20.. So are we forbidden by the catholic [universal] religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.
21.. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
22.. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
23.. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
24.. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
25.. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
26.. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
27.. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
28.. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
29.. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
30.. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
31.. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
32.. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
34.. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
35.. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.
36.. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
37.. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
38,, Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
39.. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
40.. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
41.. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
42.. and shall give account of their own works.
43.. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
44.. This is the catholic [universal] faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.
Because this is where Jesus Christ, my Lord & Savior tells me to go and where I find His Truth. While I strongly respect other denominations, I do have disagreements with each of them.
Talking about Christ first.
I understand substance as meaning same divine essence or nature of God. Not three gods like it has been misrepresented by amatures.
Explaining the "Blessed Trinity": Why the Athanasian Creed Matters - SOLA Network
I once overheard a young woman at the coffee shop table behind me sharing her faith with someone. “Do you know what the Trinity is?” she asked. “No.” “Well, there are three different…parts of God.” I cringed, bit my lip, and went back to drinking my coffee. Unbeknownst to her, the young lady had...
sola.network
An Exposition of the Athanasian Creed
An explanation of the Athanasian Creed ahead of Trinity Sunday.
www.christianbwagner.com
On its own terms, the Creed of Athanasius is a reaffirmation and clarification of all the early Church councils and the Nicene Creed which fought tooth and nail to preserve the orthodox faith against heretics like Nestorius, Arius, Eutyches, Apollinaris, Sabellius, Macedonius, and Paul of Samosata. Athanasius may not have written it, but its words encapsulate everything he stood for. The two primary targets of the Athanasian Creed are the heresies promoted by Nestorius and Arius.
Arius could easily be considered the godfather of all heretics with most heresies tracing back to him. He is known for denying Christ’s divinity in order to maintain the oneness of God over and against the threeness of God. Contrary to Scripture, Arius claimed that Christ was a creature of God and not God Himself. While He shared in god-like qualities, the Father and the Son did not share the same “substance” to use the language of the creed. For this reason, the first half of the Athanasian Creed is devoted to expressing the oneness of God according to His “substance” and the threeness of God according to His “persons.” You have to feel a measure of sympathy for the creedal authors because they were given the monumental task of clearly expressing one of the greatest mysteries in the whole Bible! God is one, and God is three." The Athanasian Creed and Its Importance
Please post your own words, not copy and paste. I can pull up refrences myself (and have read these many times). I’m here to talk to YOU and want to hear YOUR words.
verses related to substance
Deut. 6:4, Is. 43:10, Matt. 3:16-17, 28:19, Mark 12:29, 12:32, John 10:30, 2 Cor. 13:14, Eph. 4:5, Jas. 2:19 Matt. 26:38, Luke 2:52, 24:39, John 1:1-3, 1:14, 5:23, 7:29, 10:30, 11:35, 12:27, 16:15, 17:24, 19:33-34, Acts 2:27, Rom. 1:3, Gal. 4:4, Phil. 2:5-11, Col. 1:16 Matt. 1:23, John 1:1, 1:14, Phil. 2:5-8, Heb. 2:14-17 Athanasian Creed According to Scripture
Deut. 6:4, Is. 43:10, Matt. 3:16-17, 28:19, Mark 12:29, 12:32, John 10:30, 2 Cor. 13:14, Eph. 4:5, Jas. 2:19 Matt. 26:38, Luke 2:52, 24:39, John 1:1-3, 1:14, 5:23, 7:29, 10:30, 11:35, 12:27, 16:15, 17:24, 19:33-34, Acts 2:27, Rom. 1:3, Gal. 4:4, Phil. 2:5-11, Col. 1:16 Matt. 1:23, John 1:1, 1:14, Phil. 2:5-8, Heb. 2:14-17 Athanasian Creed According to Scripture
Attributes Bible God
Isaiah 43:10
Isaiah 44:8
Psalm 90:2
Malachi 3:6
God's attributes:
Eternality, Mercy, Goodness, Omnipotence, Grace, Omnipresence, Holiness, Omniscience, Immanence, Righteousness, Immutability, Self-Existence,Justice, Sovereignty,Love, Transcendence
support links:
www.biblestudytools.com
www.namb.net
www.namb.net
Isaiah 43:10
Isaiah 44:8
Psalm 90:2
Malachi 3:6
God's attributes:
Eternality, Mercy, Goodness, Omnipotence, Grace, Omnipresence, Holiness, Omniscience, Immanence, Righteousness, Immutability, Self-Existence,Justice, Sovereignty,Love, Transcendence
support links:
The Attributes of God: What They Mean and Why They Matter
What are God’s attributes? When we talk about the attributes of God, we are trying to answer questions like, Who is God, What is God like, and What kind of God is he? An attribute of God is something true about him. While fully comprehending who God is impossible for us as limited beings, God...
The Mormon Concept of God - Apologetics
By Francis J. Beckwith “It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a … The Mormon Concept of God Read More »
www.namb.net
Comparison Chart -- Mormonism and Christianity
By Tal Davis Introduction: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS or Mormon church) … Comparison Chart — Mormonism and Christianity Read More »
www.namb.net
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Jane,
The one thing you never want to do is to disagree with the words of Christ, neither give credence to any words that seek to change or undermine His words.
The LORD Jesus Christ died for your sins = HE alone is your Treasure.
You shared with me that HE is both your Savior and King, as such we owe Him our complete love, trust and obedience.
Never let anyone, any religion or anything surpass your love for Christ our Savior.
All praise, honor and glory to our Redeemer, Chief Apostle, KING of kings and LORD of lords to Christ be all the Glory - Amen
Revelation ch5
Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”
11Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12saying with a loud voice:
“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”
13And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:
“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
14Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever.
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Sounds like you have not been taught the deeper teachings of LDS church.
Isaiah 43:10
Isaiah 44:8
Psalm 90:2
Malachi 3:6
God's attributes:
Eternality, Mercy, Goodness, Omnipotence, Grace, Omnipresence, Holiness, Omniscience, Immanence, Righteousness, Immutability, Self-Existence,Justice, Sovereignty,Love, Transcendence
support links:
The Attributes of God: What They Mean and Why They Matter
What are God’s attributes? When we talk about the attributes of God, we are trying to answer questions like, Who is God, What is God like, and What kind of God is he? An attribute of God is something true about him. While fully comprehending who God is impossible for us as limited beings, God...
The Mormon Concept of God - Apologetics
By Francis J. Beckwith “It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a … The Mormon Concept of God Read More »
www.namb.net
Comparison Chart -- Mormonism and Christianity
By Tal Davis Introduction: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS or Mormon church) … Comparison Chart — Mormonism and Christianity Read More »
www.namb.net
Please use your own words, rather linking sites that (incorrectly) try to tell me what I believe. Sorry, but it's REALLY getting on my nerves.Attributes Bible God
Isaiah 43:10
Isaiah 44:8
Psalm 90:2
Malachi 3:6
God's attributes:
Eternality, Mercy, Goodness, Omnipotence, Grace, Omnipresence, Holiness, Omniscience, Immanence, Righteousness, Immutability, Self-Existence,Justice, Sovereignty,Love, Transcendence
support links:
The Attributes of God: What They Mean and Why They Matter
What are God’s attributes? When we talk about the attributes of God, we are trying to answer questions like, Who is God, What is God like, and What kind of God is he? An attribute of God is something true about him. While fully comprehending who God is impossible for us as limited beings, God...The Mormon Concept of God - Apologetics
By Francis J. Beckwith “It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a … The Mormon Concept of God Read More »Comparison Chart -- Mormonism and Christianity
By Tal Davis Introduction: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS or Mormon church) … Comparison Chart — Mormonism and Christianity Read More »
Sounds like you have not been taught the deeper teachings of LDS church.
Isaiah 43:10
Isaiah 44:8
Psalm 90:2
Malachi 3:6
God's attributes:
Eternality, Mercy, Goodness, Omnipotence, Grace, Omnipresence, Holiness, Omniscience, Immanence, Righteousness, Immutability, Self-Existence,Justice, Sovereignty,Love, Transcendence
support links:
The Attributes of God: What They Mean and Why They Matter
What are God’s attributes? When we talk about the attributes of God, we are trying to answer questions like, Who is God, What is God like, and What kind of God is he? An attribute of God is something true about him. While fully comprehending who God is impossible for us as limited beings, God...The Mormon Concept of God - Apologetics
By Francis J. Beckwith “It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a … The Mormon Concept of God Read More »Comparison Chart -- Mormonism and Christianity
By Tal Davis Introduction: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS or Mormon church) … Comparison Chart — Mormonism and Christianity Read More »
*Sigh*. No, I've dealt with these folks misrepresenting stuff even before the internet existed (in popular form).
Going on just one example of how these sites:
Taking from here (Comparison Chart - Mormonism and Christianity - Apologetics) on the "The Doctrine of Jesus Christ" section
[QOUTE] Historic Christianity :
Jesus Christ was the virgin born God incarnate who existed in all time with the Father and Holy Spirit in the eternal Trinity. As a man He possessed two natures -human and divine. He lived a sinless life and willingly died on the cross as a sacrifice for the sin of all humanity. (see John 1:1-18; 8:56-59; Phil. 2:6-11; Col. 1:13-22; Heb.1:3; 13:8)
[/QUOTE]
LDS Christians actually agree with this. The two sections that get "what do you mean by that exactly" are 1) the word "Trinity" and the "substance" which we discussed earlier. If you mean have the same characteristics everlasting love, mercy, justice, knowledge, patience, etc, then we are in agreement. If you mean made of this super metaphysical stuff, then no. And the second section (2) to discuss is the word "nature" because LDS Christians don't use that word, but when you unpack things they come to agreement.
I'm going to break up the site's discussion on "Mormonism", and focused specifically on the parts about Christ.
[QOUTE] Mormonism:
Jesus was the spiritual “first born” Son of God in the preexistence./QUOTE]
This omits the part where LDS Christians believe that Jesus Christ has always existed and has always been God. LDS Christians and Creedals Christians have different diffenitions of the word "born" as well. As a Creedal, you read this and think that it means there was a time Christ didn't exist and is lesser because of it-- this is not how LDS Christians think. Rather Christ is everlasting to everlasting, and birth is a step from one phase to another.
[QOUTE] .”And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn” (D&C 93:21).
[/QUOTE]
Ok, there they actually do point out that Christ is everlasting.
[QOUTE] He is also the “only begotten” physical offspring of God by procreation on earth. “Jesus is the only person on earth to be born of a mortal mother and an immortal father. That is why he is called the Only Begotten Son” (GP, p. 64).
[/QUOTE]
This belief in Christ virgin birth and the only virgin birth is shared with other Christians.
[QOUTE] His atonement (death and resurrection) provides immortality for all people regardless of their faith. “Christ thus overcame physical death. Because of his atonement, everyone born on this earth will be resurrected . . . This condition is called immortality. All people who ever lived will be resurrected, ‘both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous’ (The Book of Mormon [BOM], Alma 11:44)” (GP, p. 74). (See GP, pp. 11, 17-19, 61-77.)
[/QUOTE]
Yes, Christ's atonement overcome physical death and we believe everyone will be resurrected. All Christians believe in resurrection for the righteous, and majority believe that the wicked are also resurrected before being sent to Hell.
Taking from here (Comparison Chart - Mormonism and Christianity - Apologetics) on the "The Doctrine of Jesus Christ" section
[QOUTE] Historic Christianity :
Jesus Christ was the virgin born God incarnate who existed in all time with the Father and Holy Spirit in the eternal Trinity. As a man He possessed two natures -human and divine. He lived a sinless life and willingly died on the cross as a sacrifice for the sin of all humanity. (see John 1:1-18; 8:56-59; Phil. 2:6-11; Col. 1:13-22; Heb.1:3; 13:8)
[/QUOTE]
LDS Christians actually agree with this. The two sections that get "what do you mean by that exactly" are 1) the word "Trinity" and the "substance" which we discussed earlier. If you mean have the same characteristics everlasting love, mercy, justice, knowledge, patience, etc, then we are in agreement. If you mean made of this super metaphysical stuff, then no. And the second section (2) to discuss is the word "nature" because LDS Christians don't use that word, but when you unpack things they come to agreement.
I'm going to break up the site's discussion on "Mormonism", and focused specifically on the parts about Christ.
[QOUTE] Mormonism:
Jesus was the spiritual “first born” Son of God in the preexistence./QUOTE]
This omits the part where LDS Christians believe that Jesus Christ has always existed and has always been God. LDS Christians and Creedals Christians have different diffenitions of the word "born" as well. As a Creedal, you read this and think that it means there was a time Christ didn't exist and is lesser because of it-- this is not how LDS Christians think. Rather Christ is everlasting to everlasting, and birth is a step from one phase to another.
[QOUTE] .”And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn” (D&C 93:21).
[/QUOTE]
Ok, there they actually do point out that Christ is everlasting.
[QOUTE] He is also the “only begotten” physical offspring of God by procreation on earth. “Jesus is the only person on earth to be born of a mortal mother and an immortal father. That is why he is called the Only Begotten Son” (GP, p. 64).
[/QUOTE]
This belief in Christ virgin birth and the only virgin birth is shared with other Christians.
[QOUTE] His atonement (death and resurrection) provides immortality for all people regardless of their faith. “Christ thus overcame physical death. Because of his atonement, everyone born on this earth will be resurrected . . . This condition is called immortality. All people who ever lived will be resurrected, ‘both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous’ (The Book of Mormon [BOM], Alma 11:44)” (GP, p. 74). (See GP, pp. 11, 17-19, 61-77.)
[/QUOTE]
Yes, Christ's atonement overcome physical death and we believe everyone will be resurrected. All Christians believe in resurrection for the righteous, and majority believe that the wicked are also resurrected before being sent to Hell.
Sounds interresting friend. Concerning "Trinity" and the "substance.
Trinity is defined as 3 personages within the one G_d.
Substance is simply that divine nature.
I will review this thread before saying anything else.
Question, are you Reformed LDS (RLDS) aka Community of Christ? My Great, Great, Great, Great Grand Father was that.
Trinity is defined as 3 personages within the one G_d.
Substance is simply that divine nature.
I will review this thread before saying anything else.
Question, are you Reformed LDS (RLDS) aka Community of Christ? My Great, Great, Great, Great Grand Father was that.
With that interpretation, then there is much agreement.
Other interpretations, not so much. I've seen Trinitarians that describe God like He's the Force from Star Wars, others that act like "God" is supernatural sparkly stuff, and many others that say "1 God in 3 persons" but for all purposes mean modalism (1 person in 3 roles). So many many LDS Christians think Trinitarians are modalists.
The Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different persons. 1, 2, 3. You can send out 3 invitations to dinner. Super simple. They are united as 1 God as they are on the EXACT same page about everything. 100% united. "We are One". For example, you can't follow the Son and rebel against the Father-- that doesn't even make sense. Versus in polytheism, you could totally follow Poseidon and go against Zeus.
Nope, that's a different faith. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (mainstream "Mormon").
After reviewing thread, I have questions friend.
1. What kind of Baptist is your hubby?
2. What kind of Methodist are they?
3. Please explain deeper, "LDS Christians believe that a person's spirit existed for eternities before being born to mortal life."
4. How do people accept Christ after their mortal death?
5. "His guidance/speaking usually comes in the form of a quiet internal prompt"
He uses a 4'x6' with me.
"I already believe that you are going to be living for eternity with Christ."
6. Do you believe everyone is going to be living for eternity with Christ?
"Becoming like God (the LDS Christian belief) is about that: learning and reflecting His knowledge, character, etc. It's not about gaining superpowers."
7. What exactly is your understanding friend becoming like G_d?
8. Poseidon?
I going to use LDS sources to show where I get my ideas from.
Please, post links to those sites and how to do a search on them.
Thanks, Cookie Monster aka Daniel
1. What kind of Baptist is your hubby?
2. What kind of Methodist are they?
3. Please explain deeper, "LDS Christians believe that a person's spirit existed for eternities before being born to mortal life."
4. How do people accept Christ after their mortal death?
5. "His guidance/speaking usually comes in the form of a quiet internal prompt"
He uses a 4'x6' with me.
"I already believe that you are going to be living for eternity with Christ."
6. Do you believe everyone is going to be living for eternity with Christ?
"Becoming like God (the LDS Christian belief) is about that: learning and reflecting His knowledge, character, etc. It's not about gaining superpowers."
7. What exactly is your understanding friend becoming like G_d?
8. Poseidon?
I going to use LDS sources to show where I get my ideas from.
Please, post links to those sites and how to do a search on them.
Thanks, Cookie Monster aka Daniel
"
This is where from LDS Site where I get the idea that Satan and Jesus are spirit brother.
- In the premortal life we were spirit children and lived with our heavenly parents (Hebrews 12:9).
- Jesus was the firstborn spirit child of Heavenly Father (D&C 93:21) and is the older brother of our spirits.
- Lucifer, who became Satan, was also a spirit child of Heavenly Father.
- Heavenly Father called a meeting for all his spirit children. At this meeting he explained his plan for us to become like him. He told us that he wanted us to go to earth to get a physical body. He explained that on earth we would be tested to see if we would keep his commandments.
- At this meeting Heavenly Father also explained that on earth we would all sin and we would all die. Heavenly Father needed someone to be the Savior, to suffer for our sins, and to die for us so that we could be resurrected.
- Lucifer wanted Heavenly Father to change his plan. Lucifer said he would save everyone by taking away their freedom to choose, which would have made it impossible for us to make mistakes or be righteous. Lucifer also wanted all the honor (Moses 4:1).
- Because he loved us (John 15:13), Jesus volunteered to be our Savior. He wanted to follow Heavenly Father’s plan and give the glory to Heavenly Father (Moses 4:2).
- Heavenly Father chose Jesus to be our Savior. Lucifer was angry and rebelled against Heavenly Father (Revelation 12:7–9; Moses 4:3–4)."
This is where from LDS Site where I get the idea that Satan and Jesus are spirit brother.
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