JUSTIFICATION: Catholic Vs. Protestant, Part #1

[BreadOfLife]

The Bible is an honest book, it does not hide the sins and the mistakes of God's people.

Oh – so now you approve of the Epistle of James as “honest”.

Interesting that back in post #56, YOU claimed that it wasn’t a good source of doctrine and that you don‘t thin it belongs in the Canon of Scripture.

Are you always this wishy-washy??

 

[Robert Pate]

Oh – so now you approve of the Epistle of James as “honest”.

Interesting that back in post #56, YOU claimed that it wasn’t a good source of doctrine and that you don‘t thin it belongs in the Canon of Scripture.

Are you always this wishy-washy??

James did not understand Paul's Gospel. I believe that he learned it at a later date. The book of James is more Jewish than it is Christian. Why would James want to circumcise Gentile believers? Acts 15:1-21. Why did James send men to spy on Peter and Barnabas? 2:11-16.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Unfortunately, you apparently don't know what the Gospel is. If you did you would not be a Catholic.

TRANSLATION:
“I can’t defend my perverted theology - so I’ll just Catholic-bash instead.”

That‘s pretty much what I figured . . .

 

[Robert Pate]

TRANSLATION:
“I can’t defend my perverted theology - so I’ll just Catholic-bash instead.”

That‘s pretty much what I figured . .

TRANSLATION:
“I can’t defend my perverted theology - so I’ll just Catholic-bash instead.”

That‘s pretty much what I figured . . .

Paul's Gospel is anti-Catholic. Catholicism is a law-based religion. Paul said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4.

This means that where there is no law there is no sin, Romans 4:15. Where there is no law there is no need for a religion. This is why Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Paul's Gospel is anti-Catholic. Catholicism is a law-based religion. Paul said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4.

This means that where there is no law there is no sin, Romans 4:15. Where there is no law there is no need for a religion. This is why Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17.

Right.
So. define "Faith"

 

[Rockerduck]

Right.
So. define "Faith"

You define it. If you can't, then you are not a Christian. All Born again from above Christians understand Faith.

 

[DJT_47]

We have to look at God's word, the bible, as our complete guide for everything in life as well as what constitutes the true and acceptable nature of the church, including its organization, practices, teachings, etc.; if it deviates from the bible in any way, by adding, deleting, or changing things as opposed to what's strictly contained therein, then it can't be right or acceptable to God, and furthermore, may in fact be false to the extent that persons believing in and practicing such falsehoods may not in fact even be Christians at all (nor saved)! This is where I find the Catholic church to be, and many, many, others as well, including sisters or offshoots thereof such as Episcopalian, Anglican, Greek Orthodox, etc. and others too of unrelated denominations. There are no denominations in true Christianity as discussed and warned against subtly by Paul in the 1st Corinthians letter, ref.1Cor 1:12.

Facts of the bible:

All Christian's are saints (1st Corinthians 1:2, Colossians 1:2, Eph 1:1, etc, as referenced elsewhere as well)

No Pope can be found in the bible, nor cardinals or other similar related unscriptural church office titles or positions

Christ is the head of the church not the pope (Eph 5:23. Col1:18)

No man on earth is to be called father, which reverence is reserved for the Father in heaven (Mat 23:9)

There is no lay nor hierarchy other than elders (presbytery, bishops, pastors, all meaning the same) deacons, teachers, preachers, ministers

All Christian's are priests (1st Peter 2:9)

Women have no role or official authority in the church (1Timothy 2:12, 1Corinthians 14:34-35)

There is no such thing as 1st holy communion (after-the-fact confirmation of an infant "baptism" based on the person's subsequent confession of belief)

Baptism (which is a total immersion in water), is administered to only believing adults or persons of accountable age immediately upon their belief and confession in Jesus as the Son of God, for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38, and read all the conversions in the book of Acts.)

There are no accounts recorded of babies, infants, children being baptized or sprinkled, nor any believing adults being sprinkled as a form of, or substitution for baptism. Sprinkle and baptize are 2 distinctly different words in the Greek language, with baptism being transliterated not translated, meaning dipping, immersion, plunging and not pouring, sprinkling or anything other than complete submersion in water)

There is no worship of Mary or any other person other than Jesus Christ, nor instances of acceptable prayer to anyone other than Jesus as an intermediary between man and God (1st Tim 2:5)

There are no symbols to be held in any regard such as the cross, vessels, relics, statues, making the sign of the cross, rosaries, etc.

There are no religious holidays found in the bible or days to be revered other than the first day of the week (Sunday) when the disciples came together to break bread and have communion with the Lord, Acts 20:7)

There is no higher earthly authority over congregations of believers other than that which is to be established within the individual, local congregations, i.e., elders and related workers such as deacons, ministers/preachers

There is no condemnation for or abstaining from eating meats (ref. Colossians 2:16, 1Timothy 4:3)

There are no restrictions for marriage of priests (also we are all priests according to God's word as noted above), and ref. qualifications for church offices of bishops and deacons in 1Timothy 3:2 and 3:12, Titus1:6, "husband of one wife")

Marriage is between a man and a woman, and homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God.

Show more

 

[Robert Pate]

Right.
So. define "Faith"

The Bible says, "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Hebrews 11:1.

If you have to practice a religion and seek after miracles, chances are that you don't have faith.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You define it. If you can't, then you are not a Christian. All Born again from above Christians understand Faith.

I HAVE defined it on numerous occasions.
I’m asking YOU. The Bible commands you to give an explanation when asked (1 Pet. 3:15).

Ho do YOU define “faith” to someone who is asking you about Christ?
If you don’t know – just say so.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Bible says, "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Hebrews 11:1.

That’s a description of faith – NOT a definition.
Whan a curious non-believer asks you what exactly faith is – YOU just point them to Heb. 11:1??

If you have to practice a religion and seek after miracles, chances are that you don't have faith.

That is a Scripturally-bankrupt comment.
You ALSO practice religion. Unfortunately, many ignorant anti-Catholics have relegated the term, “religion” to paganism.

James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

[Robert Pate]

That’s a description of faith – NOT a definition.
Whan a curious non-believer asks you what exactly faith is – YOU just point them to Heb. 11:1??

That is a Scripturally-bankrupt comment.
You ALSO practice religion. Unfortunately, many ignorant anti-Catholics have relegated the term, “religion” to paganism.

James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

I must have overlooked this post.

Many religious people like to quote James. James was a Judaizer. A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus, but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses. The book of James was not directed to Gentile Christians, it was directed to law keeping Jews, James 1:1. James sent men to spy on Peter and Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles, Galatians 2:11-25. James wanted to circumcise Gentile believers, Acts 15:1-41. Many Christian scholars do not believe that the book James should have been included in the canons of the Bible.

 

[Philip James]

James was a Judaizer.

Liar! When will you stop spreading your filth and confusing the sheep..

"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea

 

[Robert Pate]

Liar! When will you stop spreading your filth and confusing the sheep..

"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea

The sheep are not confused. You are the one that is confused. You believe that you can save yourself by the works of the law (religion) Paul said, "By the deeds of the law (what you do) no flesh will be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

 

[Philip James]

The sheep are not confused. You are the one that is confused. You believe that you can save yourself by the works of the law (religion) Paul said, "By the deeds of the law (what you do) no flesh will be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

Why must you add to what Paul said (what you do) is a corruption of the text...

Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,

naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'


Most assuredly we will be judged by what we do, and how we act, and the intentions of our heart..

Merry Christmas!

 

[BreadOfLife]

I must have overlooked this post.
Many religious people like to quote James. James was a Judaizer. A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus, but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses. The book of James was not directed to Gentile Christians, it was directed to law keeping Jews, James 1:1. James sent men to spy on Peter and Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles, Galatians 2:11-25. James wanted to circumcise Gentile believers, Acts 15:1-41.

WRONG.

It was James who first suggested that Gentiles NOT be circumcised (Acts 15:19).
I suggest you do some further research . . .

Many Christian scholars do not believe that the book James should have been included in the canons of the Bible.

The only “scholars” who think this way are the ones who cannot rationalize their UNBBIBLICAL arguments . . .

 

[Rockerduck]

WRONG.

It was James who first suggested that Gentiles NOT be circumcised (Acts 15:19).
I suggest you do some further research . . .

The only “scholars” who think this way are the ones who cannot rationalize their UNBBIBLICAL arguments . . .

It was James who sent some men to Antioch first to preach circumcision, to the gentiles.

Acts 15:1 - While Paul and Barnabas were at Antioch of Syria, some men from Judea arrived and began to teach the believers: “Unless you are circumcised as required by the law of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Compare this to Galatians at Antioch.

Galatians 2: 11-12- But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong. 12 When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile believers, who were not circumcised. But afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn’t eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision.

In Acts the some men were from James.

 

[Robert Pate]

WRONG.

It was James who first suggested that Gentiles NOT be circumcised (Acts 15:19).
I suggest you do some further research . . .

The only “scholars” who think this way are the ones who cannot rationalize their UNBBIBLICAL arguments . . .

You are overlooking the first part of Acts 15:1-18. James was the head of the church in Jerusalem. James was the one that wanted to circumcise the Gentile believers. Paul and Barnabas had to convince him not to do it. He finally agreed with them.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are overlooking the first part of Acts 15:1-18. James was the head of the church in Jerusalem. James was the one that wanted to circumcise the Gentile believers. Paul and Barnabas had to convince him not to do it. He finally agreed with them.

This is absolute nonsense.

James NEVER said any such thing at the Council of Jerusalem,
In verse 19 – it is JAMES that recommends NOT circumcising the Gentiles.

YOU are simply looking for reasons NOT to accept his Epistles because it contains things that YOU reject. Ir is the inerrant Word of Almighty God – and YOU reject it,

 

[BreadOfLife]

It was James who sent some men to Antioch first to preach circumcision, to the gentiles.

Acts 15:1 - While Paul and Barnabas were at Antioch of Syria, some men from Judea arrived and began to teach the believers: “Unless you are circumcised as required by the law of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Compare this to Galatians at Antioch.

Galatians 2: 11-12- But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong. 12 When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile believers, who were not circumcised. But afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn’t eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision.

In Acts the some men were from James.

WHICH James? The son of Zebedee or the relative of Jesus (the Less).
WHERE does it say that James taught them to circumcise Gentiles?

Where does it say that either one of them was a Judaizer? The men from Antioch may very well have come to this belief on their own.

You should know that there were aberrations and false beliefs being circulated in the Early Church in the first century.

 

[marks]

No, faith results in obedience yet faith is faith and obedience which follows and is produced out of faith is works. We are saved by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Faith is the root of salvation and works which follow are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. (James 2:14)

All genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23)

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not belive in/on the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved. (Acts 16:31)

Their trust and reliance is in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. Not ALL belief is the same.

We need to be talking about rebirth in this discussion.

Believe this way, that way, the real deal is when you believe in Jesus, receiving Him, and God grants you the right to be born again. And being born again changes us, so we begin to live the way we ought.

Many claim faith, but if keeping faith and keeping love are the marks of a true child of God, we can look around us an see, who demonstrates those qualities?

Much love!