JUSTIFICATION: Catholic Vs. Protestant, Part #1

[Robert Pate]

I am recovering from my stay in the hospital and am still very weak. There is no guarantee that I will be able to continue on the Forum. Please note that some of the statements that I have made in this article are from Verdict Publications, published by Robert D. Brinsmead. Verdict was a worldwide theological magazine that supported the Gospel and justification by faith. I subscribed to and supported Verdict for over 20 years.

The word "Justification" means to make right or to be vindicated from sin. To be declared guiltless. It is a legal word and is frequently used in a court of law. In the judgment the saved will be found justified. Both Catholics and Protestants agree that no one will enter heaven that has not been justified. The question is how are we justified?

Here are some differences on justification.

Catholic: To justify means to make righteous.
Protestant: To justify means to account as righteous.

Catholic: Justification comes from an infusion of grace.
Protestant: Justification comes by the imputation of Christ's righteousness.

Paul wrote, "But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

Catholics fail to acknowledge that all men are born after Adam and are sinners, Romans 5:12. The question then arises can man's fallen Adamic nature be rehabilitated and made acceptable to God by the works of the law? Paul answers this question when he said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (what we do) there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

It is very apparent that works, laws and religion cannot justify. How then can a man be justified?

Catholic: Sanctifying grace in the believer makes him acceptable to God.
Protestant: The grace of God in Christ makes the believer acceptable to God.

When we stand in the judgment will God see enough sanctifying grace in our heart to justify us? I think not. When we stand in the judgment God will see us in Christ. If we are not found to be in Christ, we will perish.

More later.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I am recovering from my stay in the hospital and am still very weak. There is no guarantee that I will be able to continue on the Forum. Please note that some of the statements that I have made in this article are from Verdict Publications, published by Robert D. Brinsmead. Verdict was a worldwide theological magazine that supported the Gospel and justification by faith. I subscribed to and supported Verdict for over 20 years.

The word "Justification" means to make right or to be vindicated from sin. To be declared guiltless. It is a legal word and is frequently used in a court of law. In the judgment the saved will be found justified. Both Catholics and Protestants agree that no one will enter heaven that has not been justified. The question is how are we justified?

Here are some differences on justification.

Catholic: To justify means to make righteous.
Protestant: To justify means to account as righteous.

Catholic: Justification comes from an infusion of grace.
Protestant: Justification comes by the imputation of Christ's righteousness.

Paul wrote, "But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

Catholics fail to acknowledge that all men are born after Adam and are sinners, Romans 5:12. The question then arises can man's fallen Adamic nature be rehabilitated and made acceptable to God by the works of the law? Paul answers this question when he said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (what we do) there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

It is very apparent that works, laws and religion cannot justify. How then can a man be justified?

Catholic: Sanctifying grace in the believer makes him acceptable to God.
Protestant: The grace of God in Christ makes the believer acceptable to God.

When we stand in the judgment will God see enough sanctifying grace in our heart to justify us? I think not. When we stand in the judgment God will see us in Christ. If we are not found to be in Christ, we will perish.

More later.

I remember decades ago hearing that justification means "Just as if I had never sinned." And that is what Jesus does in us. He makes us literally sinless by taking the DESIRE to sin out of our nature, thus destroying the works of the devil that were in us. Jesus also puts His Spirit inside us now that we are clean to empower us to remain sinless, meaning righteous.

That is not sinless perfection. Perfection or holiness is when after justification we start maturing in all of the gifts of the Spirit. When they are all mature as in 2 Peter 1:5-11 "we will never stumble." Romans 15:1-4 shows Jesus even when we have immature fruit calls us clean, or sinless. Some people calls this process sanctification, others call it glorification. Both require abiding in Jesus.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

In both

 

[Robert Pate]

I remember decades ago hearing that justification means "Just as if I had never sinned." And that is what Jesus does in us. He makes us literally sinless by taking the DESIRE to sin out of our nature, thus destroying the works of the devil that were in us. Jesus also puts His Spirit inside us now that we are clean to empower us to remain sinless, meaning righteous.

That is not sinless perfection. Perfection or holiness is when after justification we start maturing in all of the gifts of the Spirit. When they are all mature as in 2 Peter 1:5-11 "we will never stumble." Romans 15:1-4 shows Jesus even when we have immature fruit calls us clean, or sinless. Some people calls this process sanctification, others call it glorification. Both require abiding in Jesus.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

In both

Here is the problem with what you believe.

We are not totally sanctified yet, because we are still here on this fallen planet in our unredeemed Adamic bodies that are prone to sin, this is why Paul said, "For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now, and not only they, but ourselves also , which have THE FIRST FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT, even ourselves, WAITING for the adoption, to wit, THE REDEMPTION OF OUR BODIES, Romans 8:22-23.

You are trying to bring the NOT YET into the now. Notice that it said, "The first fruits of the Spirit" We only have the down payment of the Spirit. The reason that you believe this is because you apparently do not understand or believe the Gospel and Justification by faith. Paul refutes you; John also refutes you, 1 John 1:8. I refute you, with God's word. You are not trusting in the finished work of Christ to save you and you may be under the judgment of God. Your holiness religion will not pass in the judgment.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Here is the problem with what you believe.

We are not totally sanctified yet, because we are still here on this fallen planet in our unredeemed Adamic bodies that are prone to sin, this is why Paul said, "For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now, and not only they, but ourselves also , which have THE FIRST FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT, even ourselves, WAITING for the adoption, to wit, THE REDEMPTION OF OUR BODIES, Romans 8:22-23.

You are trying to bring the NOT YET into the now. Notice that it said, "The first fruits of the Spirit" We only have the down payment of the Spirit. The reason that you believe this is because you apparently do not understand or believe the Gospel and Justification by faith. Paul refutes you; John also refutes you, 1 John 1:8. I refute you, with God's word. You are not trusting in the finished work of Christ to save you and you may be under the judgment of God. Your holiness religion will not pass in the judgment.

Do you still willfully sin? Or has Jesus freed you from committing sin?

1 John 1:8 is not a Christian. Read 1 John 2:4 to see that person is in darkness and a sinner. Christians are not sinners. 1 John 1:6 and 10 are also in darkness. From verse 5 to 10 is written in the Hebrew style of contrast, identified as light vs. darkness.

Also the body is like a puppet that can only do what its nature tells it to. That is why it is not our body that was born again, but our nature - our spirit and soul. Jesus took away our desire to sin, thus we no longer are sinners but children of God.

You better rethink your position on holiness, for "without holiness no man shall see God." I went through the narrow gate. Did you go down the wide highway?

What you think of as future better be NOW because your character is not going to change after you die, just your body.

Revelation 22:11
11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

 

[Robert Pate]

Do you still willfully sin? Or has Jesus freed you from committing sin?

1 John 1:8 is not a Christian. Read 1 John 2:4 to see that person is in darkness and a sinner. Christians are not sinners. 1 John 1:6 and 10 are also in darkness. From verse 5 to 10 is written in the Hebrew style of contrast, identified as light vs. darkness.

Also the body is like a puppet that can only do what its nature tells it to. That is why it is not our body that was born again, but our nature - our spirit and soul. Jesus took away our desire to sin, thus we no longer are sinners but children of God.

You better rethink your position on holiness, for "without holiness no man shall see God." I went through the narrow gate. Did you go down the wide highway?

What you think of as future better be NOW because your character is not going to change after you die, just your body.

Revelation 22:11
11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

What you are practicing is Old Covenant theology. The Old Covenant of laws, rules and religion has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15 also, Colossians 2:14. This is why Paul said, "The just (justified) shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. It is not possible for you to live by faith alone because you are void of the Holy Spirit. You have to have laws, rules and religion.

When Jesus returns those Christians that are still alive will be changed, except for you. You seem to think that you don't need to be changed. Once again Paul refutes you, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, AND WE SHALL BE CHANGED. For this corruptible (Christians) must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. SO, WHEN THIS CORRUPTIBLE shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, THEN shall it be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory" 1 Corinthians 15:52-54.

Your Theology is in conflict with God's word. You need to renounce your holiness theology and trust in Christ and his Gospel for your salvation so that you can enter into his rest, Hebrews 4:10. You are not there.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

What you are practicing is Old Covenant theology. The Old Covenant of laws, rules and religion has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15 also, Colossians 2:14. This is why Paul said, "The just (justified) shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. It is not possible for you to live by faith alone because you are void of the Holy Spirit. You have to have laws, rules and religion.

When Jesus returns those Christians that are still alive will be changed, except for you. You seem to think that you don't need to be changed. Once again Paul refutes you, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, AND WE SHALL BE CHANGED. For this corruptible (Christians) must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. SO, WHEN THIS CORRUPTIBLE shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, THEN shall it be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory" 1 Corinthians 15:52-54.

Your Theology is in conflict with God's word. You need to renounce your holiness theology and trust in Christ and his Gospel for your salvation so that you can enter into his rest, Hebrews 4:10. You are not there.

I already said this once, but don't you know that without holiness you won't see God?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I am recovering from my stay in the hospital and am still very weak. There is no guarantee that I will be able to continue on the Forum. Please note that some of the statements that I have made in this article are from Verdict Publications, published by Robert D. Brinsmead. Verdict was a worldwide theological magazine that supported the Gospel and justification by faith. I subscribed to and supported Verdict for over 20 years.

The word "Justification" means to make right or to be vindicated from sin. To be declared guiltless. It is a legal word and is frequently used in a court of law. In the judgment the saved will be found justified. Both Catholics and Protestants agree that no one will enter heaven that has not been justified. The question is how are we justified?

Here are some differences on justification.

Catholic: To justify means to make righteous.
Protestant: To justify means to account as righteous.

Catholic: Justification comes from an infusion of grace.
Protestant: Justification comes by the imputation of Christ's righteousness.

Paul wrote, "But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

Catholics fail to acknowledge that all men are born after Adam and are sinners, Romans 5:12. The question then arises can man's fallen Adamic nature be rehabilitated and made acceptable to God by the works of the law? Paul answers this question when he said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (what we do) there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

It is very apparent that works, laws and religion cannot justify. How then can a man be justified?

Catholic: Sanctifying grace in the believer makes him acceptable to God.
Protestant: The grace of God in Christ makes the believer acceptable to God.

When we stand in the judgment will God see enough sanctifying grace in our heart to justify us? I think not. When we stand in the judgment God will see us in Christ. If we are not found to be in Christ, we will perish.

More later.

I pray for your speedy recovery by God's merciful healing!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: by whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5...

 

[Robert Pate]

I already said this once, but don't you know that without holiness you won't see God?

Our holiness is totally and completely outside of us and is only found in the person of Jesus Christ who is our substitute and representative. Your personal holiness smells like filthy rags. "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all of our righteousness are as FILTHY RAGS; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind have taken us away" Isaiah 64:6.

The filthy rags here in Isaiah are menstrual rags. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, which we all are one of. This is why you need a savior. The holiness of the Pharisees didn't work, they all went to hell, nor will your holiness work.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Our holiness is totally and completely outside of us and is only found in the person of Jesus Christ who is our substitute and representative. Your personal holiness smells like filthy rags. "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all of our righteousness are as FILTHY RAGS; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind have taken us away" Isaiah 64:6.

The filthy rags here in Isaiah are menstrual rags. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, which we all are one of. This is why you need a savior. The holiness of the Pharisees didn't work, they all went to hell, nor will your holiness work.

So how does what you believe work? Do you believe you are righteous as you willfully commit sins you desire to according to your sin nature? Or do you have no desire to commit sins and naturally don't? I'm trying to see how Jesus works in your life.

 

[Robert Pate]

So how does what you believe work? Do you believe you are righteous as you willfully commit sins you desire to according to your sin nature? Or do you have no desire to commit sins and naturally don't? I'm trying to see how Jesus works in your life.

I am not concerned about sin, because God sees me as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. In Jesus Christ I have ALREADY been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. You are trying to do in your flesh what God has ALREADY done in Jesus Christ. I have ALREADY been spiritually made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:6. You are not there. Instead, you are busy, busy, busy, trying to save yourself, while I am resting "In Christ" Hebrews 4:10.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I am not concerned about sin, because God sees me as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. In Jesus Christ I have ALREADY been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. You are trying to do in your flesh what God has ALREADY done in Jesus Christ. I have ALREADY been spiritually made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:6. You are not there. Instead, you are busy, busy, busy, trying to save yourself, while I am resting "In Christ" Hebrews 4:10.

Those questions weren't this hard for you to see one that fit your experience more than the other. If you are resting in Christ but not keeping the commandments of Jesus, then you are NOT resting in Christ as you think. 1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Matthew 7:21-23 are for those like yourself that believe the false teachings you are counting on. Repent and be filled with the Holy Spirit, then you will naturally keep the commandments of God without even trying, like I do. Then you can say truthfully that you are resting in Jesus.

 

[Robert Pate]

Those questions weren't this hard for you to see one that fit your experience more than the other. If you are resting in Christ but not keeping the commandments of Jesus, then you are NOT resting in Christ as you think. 1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Matthew 7:21-23 are for those like yourself that believe the false teachings you are counting on. Repent and be filled with the Holy Spirit, then you will naturally keep the commandments of God without even trying, like I do. Then you can say truthfully that you are resting in Jesus.

You seem to believe that salvation is all about you. Your works, your obedience, your piety, you, you, you. This is very typical of a lost religious person. The Pharisees also believed that it was all about them. Catholics believe that it is all about them and their religion. Jesus said, "Many will say to me on that day (judgment day) Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then I will say to them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me you that work iniquity" Matthew 7:22-23.

More than likely you will be in this group.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You seem to believe that salvation is all about you. Your works, your obedience, your piety, you, you, you. This is very typical of a lost religious person. The Pharisees also believed that it was all about them. Catholics believe that it is all about them and their religion. Jesus said, "Many will say to me on that day (judgment day) Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then I will say to them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me you that work iniquity" Matthew 7:22-23.

More than likely you will be in this group.

You don't know my testimony which is the opposite of your accusations. I'd like to ask you a question. If you are so in tune with Jesus and resting in Him, why hasn't He matured any of the fruit of the Spirit in you. You've been nothing but provoking this whole time with one false accusation after another. Without holiness, which is mature fruit, you will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, because Jesus won't know you. Jesus is coming in a matter of just a few years. That isn't much time for you to grow up.

 

[Robert Pate]

You don't know my testimony which is the opposite of your accusations. I'd like to ask you a question. If you are so in tune with Jesus and resting in Him, why hasn't He matured any of the fruit of the Spirit in you. You've been nothing but provoking this whole time with one false accusation after another. Without holiness, which is mature fruit, you will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, because Jesus won't know you. Jesus is coming in a matter of just a few years. That isn't much time for you to grow up.

Religious people are big into testimonies, because they believe that salvation is all about them. It is not about us, it is about Jesus Christ, His life, His death, His resurrection. You believe that Jesus came into the world to show you the way. Jesus is the way, John 14:6.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Religious people are big into testimonies, because they believe that salvation is all about them. It is not about us, it is about Jesus Christ, His life, His death, His resurrection. You believe that Jesus came into the world to show you the way. Jesus is the way, John 14:6.

Okay Mr. Arrogant. Die in your sins. That is up to you. Good Bye.

 

[Robert Pate]

Okay Mr. Arrogant. Die in your sins. That is up to you. Good Bye.

What sins? God sees me as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. Unfortunately, you are not there.

 

[Bob Estey]

I am recovering from my stay in the hospital and am still very weak. There is no guarantee that I will be able to continue on the Forum. Please note that some of the statements that I have made in this article are from Verdict Publications, published by Robert D. Brinsmead. Verdict was a worldwide theological magazine that supported the Gospel and justification by faith. I subscribed to and supported Verdict for over 20 years.

The word "Justification" means to make right or to be vindicated from sin. To be declared guiltless. It is a legal word and is frequently used in a court of law. In the judgment the saved will be found justified. Both Catholics and Protestants agree that no one will enter heaven that has not been justified. The question is how are we justified?

Here are some differences on justification.

Catholic: To justify means to make righteous.
Protestant: To justify means to account as righteous.

Catholic: Justification comes from an infusion of grace.
Protestant: Justification comes by the imputation of Christ's righteousness.

Paul wrote, "But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

Catholics fail to acknowledge that all men are born after Adam and are sinners, Romans 5:12. The question then arises can man's fallen Adamic nature be rehabilitated and made acceptable to God by the works of the law? Paul answers this question when he said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (what we do) there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

It is very apparent that works, laws and religion cannot justify. How then can a man be justified?

Catholic: Sanctifying grace in the believer makes him acceptable to God.
Protestant: The grace of God in Christ makes the believer acceptable to God.

When we stand in the judgment will God see enough sanctifying grace in our heart to justify us? I think not. When we stand in the judgment God will see us in Christ. If we are not found to be in Christ, we will perish.

More later.

Is there some sort of war going on between Catholics and Protestants?

 

[Robert Pate]

Is there some sort of war going on between Catholics and Protestants?

There is a spiritual war going on between those that believe the Gospel and those that don't. Catholics do not believe the Gospel, nor do they believe that they are justified by faith alone. They want to add works to the Gospel, which perverts the Gospel and makes it of no effect. Galatians 1:6-10.

 

[mailmandan]

The Catholic Church Teaches Salvation by Works