OSAS being False Doctrine!

[Ritajanice]

What part of man was NOT formed from dust?

His hair, skin, bones, tissue, organs, brain, nerves, spirit, etc. every part of a mEvery part of man that God forms from dust.

the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

The breath of life, didn’t come from the dust...it came from God.

The breath of life, which is the Spirit/ God.....also brings our spirit Alive...Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Commentary..below.
Think about it. When the Bible talks about filling our lungs with breath or that very breath that gives us our life departing and returning to God, it is not merely spouting eloquently about air. That Biblical breath is the Holy Spirit.

Job 33:4 tells us that the breath of God is the Spirit of God, “And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.” Since the Spirit of God lives inside the believer, each person who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ has ongoing direct access to the breath of life that will help them live abundantly.

Adam’s formed body became DEAD to God.

In your opinion, I voiced mine.

What did God “GIVE” Adam after God FORMED Adam? A soul with Gods LIFE in it.
DID Adams living soul DIE when Adam was sent out of the Garden? No.

Again, that is you belief and opinion.

I voiced mine also.

Rita Janice said these words...I say his spirit went out from the presence of God..it didn’t die...it was just severed...God removed his presence from within his spirit?

We too inherited that sin from Adam.....the only way back to the Father is through the Son....when we become Born Again...our spirit has been made Alive by the Holy Spirit baptising us in the Spirit....much more to it than that...all a work of God, drawing us to Jesus by the power of his Spirit....

[/QUOTE]

 

[Taken]

I don't even begin to know what all of that means.

No problem. Men are not typically at the same point in their life’s journey in hearing and studying….or understanding.

 

[Ritajanice]

No problem. Men are not typically at the same point in their life’s journey in hearing and studying….or understanding.

That I agree with.

Amen...

 

[Taken]

the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

The breath of life, didn’t come from the dust...it came from God.

The breath of life, which is the Spirit/ God.....also brings our spirit Alive...Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Commentary..below.
Think about it. When the Bible talks about filling our lungs with breath or that very breath that gives us our life departing and returning to God, it is not merely spouting eloquently about air. That Biblical breath is the Holy Spirit.

Job 33:4 tells us that the breath of God is the Spirit of God, “And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.” Since the Spirit of God lives inside the believer, each person who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ has ongoing direct access to the breath of life that will help them live abundantly.


In your opinion, I voiced mine.


Again, that is you belief and opinion.

I voiced mine also.

the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground …

Man FORM-ED….finished….every part of the mans FORM…..called “CREATED”.
It has it’s OWN “functioning” LIFE, called BLOOD. (Just as does a FORMING life in a womb, Heart, blood, being created )

“AND”…..conjunction….something about that CREAT-ED, FORM-ED man becomes “MADE”…..

and <—-> the conjunction…the MAKING

breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

GOD “MAKES” “parts” of the FORMED thing ALIVE. WHAT? WHY? WHEN?
When? …. Once the natural created body is naturally born.
What? …. Flesh can feel touch, eyes can see, ears can hear, nose can smell, tongue can taste, mouth can utter sound.
Why? …. Communication between men.

A body, all it’s parts is Dead to God, IF (spiritually) separated from God.
Adams body was (spiritually) separated from God…yet naturally was still living.
Adams living soul (from God) was still IN his body.
As long as a man IS STILL naturally ALIVE, his living soul is in him. He can still use his “alive senses”. He can still hear and learn about God.
He can CHOOSE to believe in his TRUTH, in his natural spirit, in his natural heart….to Believe IN God. Which Adam DID, before his physical bodily death.
A man who physically bodily dies, believing IN GOD IN his natural spirit…SHALL Be SAV-ed when his body dies.
A man IN his natural spirit, (since Jesus’ arrival, teaching, departure back to Heaven),
WHO…..IS bodily alive, who believes IN his natural spirit, who is repentant for having NOT Believed, who now Believes, who CONFESSES his belief…….his natural spirit becomes MADE by the power of God, born of Gods SEED, which is now a spirit “born again” spirit, that CAN NEVER DIE…
His soul is also “SAVeD”, meaning his soul can NEVER have Gods breath removed from his soul….ie it as well can NeVeR DIE.
THIS man has offered his body unto DEATH, crucified with Christ Jesus.

WHY? It is Gods offering, it is Gods works, it is Gods power, it is Gods seed….that a MAKES “changes” to His Creations.

I have no reason to doubt you have completed the steps to have had complete His works IN you.

You do seem hostile to understanding the hows and whys.

God Creat-ed accomplish-ed a man, a form-ed Body…with all it’s “parts”.

AND THEN…..God MADE certain body parts able to function, BY Gods works of MAK-ING.

Gods CREATION…was finished in 6 days.
Gods MAKING…of His CREATIONS continues.

When a CREATION (such as A MAN), desires and chooses to BE WITH GOD FOREVER….God MAKES the mans body, soul, spirit. …. In the CONDITION necessary FOR that man “TO” FOREVER BE with God.

Body dead…..crucified with Christ.
soul restored…..saved
Spirit quickened……born of Gods Seed.

CREAT-ED and MADE … very Good.
Man MADE himself, fall from very Good.
God offered a way for man to be MADE restored, made spirit born again, that it could NEVER die, promises a BODY, glorified that it is anew, without sin.

If you do not consider the creation AND making are two different things….no reason for you to understand when I speak aS IF they are two different things.

Gen 2:
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

are you saying a person who is saved, born again, a new creation in Christ can become unborn, no longer a new creation and lose eternal life ?

God's Word teaches.... if we sow to the flesh (sin) then we shall reap corruption

This is of course WHY the Lord put provision in the New Covenant for Christians to be able to confess and forsake out sin so that we can become cleansed of unrighteousness and be back in right standing with the Lord once again.

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.

G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.

It's sad that some many claiming to be Christians... only accept bit and pieces of God's Word

 

[Ritajanice]

the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground …

Man FORM-ED….finished….every part of the mans FORM…..called “CREATED”.
It has it’s OWN “functioning” LIFE, called BLOOD. (Just as does a FORMING life in a womb, Heart, blood, being created )

“AND”…..conjunction….something about that CREAT-ED, FORM-ED man becomes “MADE”…..

and <—-> the conjunction…the MAKING

Opinion based

breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

GOD “MAKES” “parts” of the FORMED thing ALIVE. WHAT? WHY? WHEN?
When? …. Once the natural created body is naturally born.
What? …. Flesh can feel touch, eyes can see, ears can hear, nose can smell, tongue can taste, mouth can utter sound.
Why? …. Communication between men.

Opinion based.and imo doesn’t make any sense to me...nothing in scripture..just your own words.

A body, all it’s parts is Dead to God, IF (spiritually) separated from God.
Adams body was (spiritually) separated from God…yet naturally was still living.
Adams living soul (from God) was still IN his body.
As long as a man IS STILL naturally ALIVE, his living soul is in him. He can still use his “alive senses”. He can still hear and learn about God.
He can CHOOSE to believe in his TRUTH, in his natural spirit, in his natural heart….to Believe IN God. Which Adam DID, before his physical bodily death.
A man who physically bodily dies, believing IN GOD IN his natural spirit…SHALL Be SAV-ed when his body dies.
A man IN his natural spirit, (since Jesus’ arrival, teaching, departure back to Heaven),
WHO…..IS bodily alive, who believes IN his natural spirit, who is repentant for having NOT Believed, who now Believes, who CONFESSES his belief…….his natural spirit becomes MADE by the power of God, born of Gods SEED, which is now a spirit “born again” spirit, that CAN NEVER DIE…

Opinion based.and again....makes no sense to me , nothing in scripture to support what you say.

His soul is also “SAVeD”, meaning his soul can NEVER have Gods breath removed from his soul….ie it as well can NeVeR DIE.
THIS man has offered his body unto DEATH, crucified with Christ Jesus.

God say you must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God...he doesn’t say his soul is saved.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

WHY? It is Gods offering, it is Gods works, it is Gods power, it is Gods seed….that a MAKES “changes” to His Creations.

I have no reason to doubt you have completed the steps to have had complete His works IN you.

You do seem hostile to understanding the hows and whys.

Do you actually read posts?

Again...please stop your assumptions of my character....

I’ve already given my voice opinion of the subject matter.

God Creat-ed accomplish-ed a man, a form-ed Body…with all it’s “parts”.

AND THEN…..God MADE certain body parts able to function, BY Gods works of MAK-ING.

Gods CREATION…was finished in 6 days.
Gods MAKING…of His CREATIONS continues.

When a CREATION (such as A MAN), desires and chooses to BE WITH GOD FOREVER….God MAKES the mans body, soul, spirit. …. In the CONDITION necessary FOR that man “TO” FOREVER BE with God.

Body dead…..crucified with Christ.
soul restored…..saved
Spirit quickened……born of Gods Seed.

CREAT-ED and MADE … very Good.
Man MADE himself, fall from very Good.
God offered a way for man to be MADE restored, made spirit born again, that it could NEVER die, promises a BODY, glorified that it is anew, without sin.

If you do not consider the creation AND making are two different things….no reason for you to understand when I speak aS IF they are two different things.

Gen 2:
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The rest of your post is just of your own understanding of scripture, same as mine same as others......you tend to post very long posts..which in honesty isn’t necessary.and I never read...

The word of God says we must be Born Again..to see the Kingdom of God......Amen and 100% true.

The word of God is not complicated...regarding being Born Again..

You make it sound so complicated...when really ...Being Born of God is easy peasy to understand.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

2 Peter 1:4-10
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye MIGHT be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
For IF these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

(*Notice what Paul said about his own body in 1 Corinthians 9:27)

 

[Taken]

That I agree with.

Amen...

From the standpoint, my spouse and I were already believers AND converted IN Christ.
Yet wanted more of Gods Understanding.
We were in a fortunate point in our lives …
And…made a choice…
My spouse and I had a great advantage point in the past … to literally spend 8-12 hours every day for nearly 5 years of reading and studying scripture, at a table, with stacks of ongoing tablets after tablets of notes, and charts on the walls, multiple Bibles, concordances….read, read, read, study, study, study, comparing…..then praying and asking God for His understanding.
The reading, studying continues but not as dramatic. The praying and asking God for His understanding, continues regularly.
We stand confident when God reveals His understanding to us. Doesn’t always happen immediately, or per our same time. But it draws us back to re-read and re-study after receiving Gods Understanding.
Point being continually reading the SAME words with greater / deeper understanding.
I can not say who else does the same.
Most people I know, who attend A Church, are satisfied with that minimum 1 hour a week, and some read a bit here and there.
When I speak my beliefs, I am confident because I already know my own effort of reading and studying and conversations with God….I already know, my life’s journey is not the same as everyone else.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

From the standpoint, my spouse and I were already believers AND converted IN Christ.
Yet wanted more of Gods Understanding.
We were in a fortunate point in our lives …
And…made a choice…
My spouse and I had a great advantage point in the past … to literally spend 8-12 hours every day for nearly 5 years of reading and studying scripture, at a table, with stacks of ongoing tablets after tablets of notes, and charts on the walls, multiple Bibles, concordances….read, read, read, study, study, study, comparing…..then praying and asking God for His understanding.
The reading, studying continues but not as dramatic. The praying and asking God for His understanding, continues regularly.
We stand confident when God reveals His understanding to us. Doesn’t always happen immediately, or per our same time. But it draws us back to re-read and re-study after receiving Gods Understanding.
Point being continually reading the SAME words with greater / deeper understanding.
I can not say who else does the same.
Most people I know, who attend A Church, are satisfied with that minimum 1 hour a week, and some read a bit here and there.
When I speak my beliefs, I am confident because I already know my own effort of reading and studying and conversations with God….I already know, my life’s journey is not the same as everyone else.

God Bless,
Taken

You have your own personal journey with God as do i when I was Born of God/ Born Again.

We are most definitely on different paths of learning and understanding of God’s word.

I live, breath and sleep...God....his word is Alive in my spirit and like you...it must be spoken out....even though what I speak out is probably a lot of mumbo jumbo to many....

Forever seeking his truth in the Spirit...Praise God.

 

[Ritajanice]

◄ Romans 8 ►

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Walking by the Spirit (Ezekiel 36:16–38; Galatians 5:16–26) 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set youb free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace,7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God. 9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alivee because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the deadf will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you. Heirs with Christ 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him. Future Glory (2 Corinthians 5:1–10) 18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently. 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words. 27And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. God Works in All Things (Ephesians 1:3–14) 28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. 31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him, freely give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us. More than Conquerors (Psalm 44:1–26) 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: “For Your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”g 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

God's Word teaches.... if we sow to the flesh (sin) then we shall reap corruption

This is of course WHY the Lord put provision in the New Covenant for Christians to be able to confess and forsake out sin so that we can become cleansed of unrighteousness and be back in right standing with the Lord once again.

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.

G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.

It's sad that some many claiming to be Christians... only accept bit and pieces of God's Word





View attachment 38144

I would advise caution when throwing out the accusation, those who claim to be Christian.
As you judge others posts so to arrive at that observation,so too are your posts able to be judged.

 

[Taken]

......you tend to post very long posts..which in honesty isn’t necessary.and I never read...

Oh, I know…a 5 minute read…Whew, exhausting.

The word of God is not complicated...regarding being Born Again..

Gods WORKS IN a man are more indepth…
Regarding WHO, when, why, how…
Not much interest to some.

You make it sound so complicated...when really ...Being Born of God is easy peasy to understand.

Sure.
Easy for any man….
Believe, Confess, truly from your heart.

Matters not, IF the man understands God is only saving the soul, not the body, only re-birthing a mans spirit, but the man does not know what his spirit is, that the body’s life is Blood, that all souls are Gods, and all life IN a soul IS Gods life, not the mans….
little insignificant things like that. God likes men to be ignorant of lots of little things. Yes?

It is of no consequence to me, if I post a long (5 minute read) and you scroll on past. Doesn’t bother me at all. In effect it wasn’t meant for you. But if it is benefit to only ONE person, my effort was not without merit.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

I would advise caution when throwing out the accusation, those who claim to be Christian.
As you judge others posts so to arrive at that observation,so too are your posts able to be judged.

Yes, I agree , I too have to be cautious on what comes out of my mouth.

We do not know the heart of another..therefore should not judge where their heart is with God.

 

[Ritajanice]

Oh, I know…a 5 minute read…Whew, exhausting.



Gods WORKS IN a man are more indepth…
Regarding WHO, when, why, how…
Not much interest to some.

God works in the heart of man his way..not your way and not by your own understanding of God’s word.

Everything is in God’s timing....he is also the teacher....he speaks his word through others. quite a few ways he speaks to his children.....

Just because some of us don’t understand how he speaks to others...doesn’t make it untrue...as long as what they/ we receive..doesn’t contradict his word.

Of course many of us put own own spin on things and explain it how we understand it...we all do that....

Sure.
Easy for any man….
Believe, Confess, truly from your heart.

Matters not, IF the man understands God is only saving the soul, not the body, only re-birthing a mans spirit, but the man does not know what his spirit is, that the body’s life is Blood, that all souls are Gods, and all life IN a soul IS Gods life, not the mans….
little insignificant things like that. God likes men to be ignorant of lots of little things. Yes?

I’ve just explained my view..as I’ve said...we all learn via the Holy Spirit...the way he purposed and planned for us to learn...you may be ignorant in many areas same as me...he opens our hearts to understand his word...

It is of no consequence to me, if I post a long (5 minute read) and you scroll on past. Doesn’t bother me at all. In effect it wasn’t meant for you. But if it is benefit to only ONE person, my effort was not without merit.

I just gave my honest opinion..if it helps another...no problem.

God Bless,
Taken

Romans 8

King James Version

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Taken]

God's Word teaches.... if we sow to the flesh (sin) then we shall reap corruption

This is of course WHY the Lord put provision in the New Covenant for Christians to be able to confess and forsake out sin so that we can become cleansed of unrighteousness and be back in right standing with the Lord once again.

Hebrews, Jews WERE in standing IN Belief, by, through, of obeying the Law….
Then some fell away. Some following after Gentile “gods”.
So yes those that fell away, could come back to believing in God, thus be reconciled.

How does a Gentile not believing in God, not under the Law, fall away and then become reconciled?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

How does a Gentile not believing in God, not under the Law, fall away and then become reconciled?

They go back to living after the flesh, after the pleasures of this world as they lived before having been born again.

You deny that Christians have been called to abide in Christ, being led by the Holy Spirit to walk after the Spirit.... and it's no big deal with they walk after the flesh in sin and if doing so they are still saved???

In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.

Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.

Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

2 Peter 1:4-10
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.


(*Notice what Paul said about his own body in 1 Corinthians 9:27)

Colossians 3:6-10
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Those that do not put on the New Man and quit walking after the flesh, the wrath of God comes upon them for their disobedience because God is NOT mocked, if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption (Gal 6:7,8)

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Things end very badly for those that do not obey the gospel.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Jesus is like Noah's Ark... as long as one is abiding IN the Ark they are saved.

Sinful behavior is throwing one's self overboard and since they are no longer in the safety of the Ark (abiding IN Christ)... they are not longer on their way to Heaven but are once again on their way to hell.

The smart ones know this and abide IN Christ so they aren't cut off as Jesus told us about in John 15 which is what happens to those that do not abide IN Him.

Those that follow false doctrines that ignore the teachings of Jesus... well, not much hope for them and when they get where they are going, they will regret their false doctrine for all eternity!

 

[Taken]

God works in the heart of man his way..not your way and not by your own understanding of God’s word.

Everything is in God’s timing....he is also the teacher....he speaks his word through others. quite a few ways he speaks to his children.....

Just because some of us don’t understand how he speaks to others...doesn’t make it untrue...as long as what they/ we receive..doesn’t contradict his word.

Of course many of us put own own spin on things and explain it how we understand it...we all do that....

I’ve just explained my view..as I’ve said...we all learn via the Holy Spirit...the way he purposed and planned for us to learn...you may be ignorant in many areas same as me...he opens our hearts to understand his word...

I just gave my honest opinion..if it helps another...no problem.

Romans 8

King James Version

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Golly, such a long post. I have a bible.

I do not say, according to my understanding.
I do say, my understanding is according to Gods Understanding, because I know what I read and what I ask Him for.

 

[Taken]

They go back to living after the flesh, after the pleasures of this world as they lived before having been born again.

So, you are saying, they believe, AND they have confessed their TRUE BELIEF, AND gave their body, “crucified” with Christ Jesus”, received Gods WORKS IN THEM, (become MADE soul SAVED and spirit BORN AGAIN)…
AND received Gods Spirit “IN” them….
THE, old is dead and they “MADE” by Gods power and works, A NEW CREATURE….

* AND THEY have the POWER to undo Gods works? Return to their old man (that was crucified with Christ Jesus) ?

You deny that Christians have been called to abide in Christ,

Try to stay on point instead of wandering off to making FALSE ACCUSATIONS!
I denied no such thing!![/QUOTE]

 

[Ritajanice]

Golly, such a long post. I have a bible.

I do not say, according to my understanding.
I do say, my understanding is according to Gods Understanding, because I know what I read and what I ask Him for.

Again that can’t be proven and is your opinion once again.

I say the same thing God’s word speaks to me as I believe he is speaking to me through his living word....again can’t be proven.