Do you speak against "Sinlessness"?

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On the question of sinlessness?

  • Do you believe you are still a sinner?

    Votes: 7 77.8%
  • Did Jesus make you sinless?

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • Is 1 John 1:9 to be used multiple times?

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • Is it necessary to receive the Holy Spirit to be saved?

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Total voters
    9

MatthewG

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Anyway, @1stCenturyLady, you are always going to hear it from me that Christians by their flesh will from time to time fall into missing the mark. God can let those people know then, it's not like we are the police to police people of faith...

God sees everything in the human heart, and he will not be mocked either way it goes. I still claim I am a sinner by the flesh, saved by grace, and now adopted as a child of God, in the Kingdom due to faith. God looks at the world with love, and see those who are his by faith, and those who choose him, will be rewarded I believe spiritually and continue to abide in the Spirit, but that doesn't mean the flesh can't get riled up... or be tempted.

You enjoy the rest of your night, and your thread, cause it's obvious that I am going to disagree with you constantly... and that is fruitless, isnt it?
 

Peterlag

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Some call Sinlessness "Sinless Perfection" when from day one of being born again of the Spirit that person has been cleansed of ALL Unrighteousness. That person is sinless, because not only does Christ take away our past sins (2 Peter 1:9) but the desire to sin from the sin nature has also been taken away. Our sin nature called the old man has not only been crucified but resurrected sinless. Romans 6:5-7. 1 John 3:1-24, John 8:32-36.

Perfection on the other hand is not from day one, so the phrase "sinless perfection" does not exist until possibly years and years away from walking in the Spirit and becoming more and more into the image of Christ Romans 8:29. Perfection has to do with becoming mature in all of the fruit of the Spirit. 2 Peter 1:5-11 shows the result is never stumbling.

John 15:1-4 shows the Father as the vinegrower of fruit. Notice we are CLEAN. So we are deemed sinless of lawlessness from day one even though our fruit of the Spirit has just been planted and is deemed separate from the major sins of lawlessness.

The natural mind of the majority of people in the church, scoff and laugh at this doctrine of Jesus Christ believing sinlessness is foolishness. 1 Corinthians 2:14.

Samples of False Doctrines by misinterpreting scripture.:
Christians will always sin and to say you're sinless is lying to yourself, 1 John 1:8 and 10, Romans 7:14-25.
We will not be free from sin until we leave these bodies of flesh. Romans 8:10.
I believe we undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.
 

MatthewG

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@1stCenturyLady thank you for time and responses, while our views are in agreement with each other there just seems to be a misunderstanding that is either on my part or your part and to me it is not sure which one it is.

Jesus speaks to his disciples in the Gospel of John, and tells them "If you love me keep my commands." The apostolic age was in charge of keeping in check a spotless, unblemished, bride which was going to be gathered when the Lord had come back, (2 Cor 11:2; Ephesians 5:27; Rev. 19:7), there are 1,000 commands that Jesus had gave,(https://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201407/r1308729_17984331.pdf 1,050 Apostolic Commands. While I do not personally believe that eternal punishment, is something that human beings will ever experience, there will ones own done harm, when it comes to receiving from God a spiritual body (1 Cor. 15:44; John 14:2-6; John 5:29) be it condemned and not being able to dwell near the Kingdom, perhaps so far away they do not even know it is there, and the faithless, and murderers, and liars, and sexually immoral (Revelation 22:14-15) live outside of the gates (which never close) of the Heavenly Kingdom; however blessed are those who do his commandments (Revelation 22:14), for they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. The aspects of the commandments found in the Apostolic, are totally subjective to us today. While there is merit in a person who subjects themselves to the commandments given to them, Yahava, Yahweh, the God of Israel, still is looking at the heart.

While I greatly believe, that following the Lord Jesus, and reading the Gospels, and reading all of the letter to Rome, and Philippians, and Colossians, and the rest of the letters in the apostolic record, and a person who faithfully (Hebrews 11:6) has a relationship with their Father who adopts (Ephesians 1:5; Romans 8:!5; Galatians 4:4-5) them, that person who claims faith, that they worship God (Revelation 19:10), and they also choose to look at the Lord Yeshua (John 1:12), (John 4:24) in spirit and truth, and the relationship continues day to day, talking to God (Philippians 4:6), and asking him to help you by the holy spirit (Luke 11:13), he will help them. It is always up to the individual, there are different measures of faith (Romans 12:3).

Every person who is a believer in the Lord Yeshua, whom Yahava, had sent, are given the holy spirit (John 15:26), whereas you stated Yahava writes on the hearts and minds of those who are his, (Jeremiah 31:33), Yahava looks at the heart, not the outside. Within them they are changed and born again (John 3:3-8), they are given the holy spirit and Yahava, by the holy spirit of God, resides within the believer (1 Corinthians 3:16), and also the Spirit of Christ also dwells in them, and those who follow him, crucify the flesh to it's desires and pleasures, which are all done by and through the spirit of Christ, and abiding in the vine (John 15), where the eternal waters give drink (John 4:14), and the eternal bread (John 6:35) feeds those who are partaking in the blood and flesh (John 6:53-56) of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Even though these are great and wonderful things that can be known just as such as becoming dead to sin and alive in Christ (Romans 6), putting aside the things which the flesh goes after, by the reaction within the soul of an individual (mind/will/emotion), which the flesh is used, to place anger upon, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language, (Colossians 3:8-9) putting away the old self with its practices, making every effort to add to ones faith goodness, and to goodness, knowledge and to knowledge, self-control and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness, mutual affection, to mutual affection, love in which one will not be unproductive in ones knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1:5-8) A good answer to the question "What is love, the love of God?" (1 Corinthians 13)

People do, and can fail in their flesh sometimes. It may not be like it once used to be, and as Christ grows more into a person who continues to grow and abide and learn, allow him to help them in their self-control, or to produce more goodness, or help in being able to help by the spirit to share with others about the Lord if one is lead. The reason why it is important in my view to understand that, even though I believe to have been converted over from the power of darkness into the Kingdom of the Son of God, I still have to admit that my flesh naturally loves the darkness, and if it wants it own way, and one is not abiding in Christ, sometimes quenching on the spirit happens, however, there is loss, when a person does choose to do sins that lead to death, because of the quenching of the spirit.

For this reason, it is stated that, from my understanding, while one has faith in Christ, they are made right with God (Romans 5), and while people can be helped in their flesh by the spirit, there is no promise of never having sinful action (Romans 7:17) that may come up to tempt (James 1:13-15), the flesh (Romans 7:24-25), however, the option, of course, is always to fall back on God, and his love, having and maintaining a relationship with fellowshipping with the Father and the Son (1 John 1:3)
 

1stCenturyLady

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He struggled, though. Same as everyone else. Jesus makes life easier, when people follow after him. I know your primary focus is not sinning.

What is sinning to you anyway? What does it mean to sin?

Hebrews 4:15

For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

James 1:14-15
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Being presented with a temptation is a long way from letting yourself be enticed. And further yet from the temptation being sin.
 

Ritajanice

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Hebrews 4:15

For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

James 1:14-15
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Being presented with a temptation is a long way from letting yourself be enticed. And further yet from the temptation being sin.
Why scripture says put off the old man?

Which is our old nature .....we aren’t instantly walking in that new nature of Christ......even though we have that new nature....the Holy Spirit teaches us to walk in the new man.....those who are Born Again?
 

1stCenturyLady

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I believe we undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.

Amen! Many actually feel a heaviness leave their body and then feel light as a feather. I remember looking down to see if I was still touching the floor!
 
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Hobie

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Having faith in following Christ, a person will by choice - choose to sin less (by choice of walking in the spirit), however they will not become sinless (they stilll miss the mark that is unable to be hit in the flesh which Jesus fully hit in the flesh). That is the reality of the subject.
Yes, but if they 'don't hit the mark' as you say before the Second Coming, what will Christ say...I know you not..
 

Ritajanice

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Amen! Many actually feel a heaviness leave their body and then feel light as a feather. I remember looking down to see if I was still touching the floor!
Yes....I remember that heaviness of sin, being removed from me and yes I felt as light as a feather , when God set me free from sin.

Of course..this is our testimony...
 

1stCenturyLady

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Why scripture says put off the old man?

Which is our old nature .....we aren’t instantly walking in that new nature of Christ......even though we have that new nature....the Holy Spirit teaches us to walk in the new man.....those who are Born Again?

'Putting off' is repentance. It is a desire to be like Christ, but realizing our flesh is too weak to be that perfect. True repentance is telling yourself and God the truth about our sin nature and our inability to be as righteous as Christ, and asking God to create in you Christ's character.
 

Ritajanice

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'Putting off' is repentance. It is a desire to be like Christ, but realizing our flesh is too weak to be that perfect. True repentance is telling yourself and God the truth about our sin nature and our inability to be as righteous as Christ, and asking God to create in you Christ's character.
Right...ok...
 

Peterlag

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Amen! Many actually feel a heaviness leave their body and then feel light as a feather. I remember looking down to see if I was still touching the floor!
I don't know when I was born again. I could have been a little boy because I have a memory of thinking about God. But for sure when I was 19 years old. But it was many years later when I figured out the new nature that my life changed within a half second. I tell people if I was holding my keys at my side and then dropped them at the same time the understanding of the new nature came to me. Then my life changed before the keys hit the floor.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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I don't know when I was born again. I could have been a little boy because I have a memory of thinking about God. But for sure when I was 19 years old. But it was many years later when I figured out the new nature that my life changed within a half second. I tell people if I was holding my keys at my side and then dropped them at the same time the understanding of the new nature came to me. Then my life changed before the keys hit the floor.
Interesting. I was born again on February 9, 1977 at around 8:00 pm when I was at Church On The Way (Jack Hayford) in Van Nuys, California.
 

Ritajanice

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'Putting off' is repentance. It is a desire to be like Christ, but realizing our flesh is too weak to be that perfect. True repentance is telling yourself and God the truth about our sin nature and our inability to be as righteous as Christ, and asking God to create in you Christ's character.
Putting off the old man .is learning by the power of the Holy Spirit....what the old man was....which is the old nature....we learn to put on Christ nature...which can only be done..if one is Born Again.

Putting off is repentance...makes no sense to me.

That is just your own commentary, as mine is...

www.judeministries.org › details

The old man represents our solidarity with Adam, our old sin nature. It is variously translated as "old man," "old self," "old humanity," "old sinful selves,
 

MatthewG

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Yes, but if they 'don't hit the mark' as you say before the Second Coming, what will Christ say...I know you not..

That's why I believe that the Apostles were governing over the bride. Jesus hit the mark for everyone there are some who accept him in their life by the death, burial, and resurrection, and there are some who choose to not allow God to work in their life.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Putting off the old man .is learning by the power of the Holy Spirit....what the old man was....which is the old nature....we learn to put on Christ nature...which can only be done..if one is Born Again.

Putting off is repentance...makes no sense to me.

That is just your own commentary, as mine is...

www.judeministries.org › details
The old man represents our solidarity with Adam, our old sin nature. It is variously translated as "old man," "old self," "old humanity," "old sinful selves,

From my experience Jesus did it all. I didn't learn to put on Christ's nature. It was all of a sudden I was free from sin and given Christ's nature. It was an about face in a moment. I imagine everyone's experience is a little different from one another.

Acts 2:38 REPENT...and you shall be given the gift of the Holy Spirit.

A friend of mine was driving his car as a teenager and all of a sudden he was receiving "two buckets full" (his words) of the Holy Spirit. He had to pull over so he wouldn't crash!
 
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Ritajanice

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From my experience Jesus did it all. I didn't learn to put on Christ's nature. It was all of a sudden I was free from sin and given Christ's nature. It was an about face in a moment. I imagine everyone's experience is a little different from one another.

Acts 2:38 REPENT...and you shall be given the gift of the Holy Spirit.

A friend of mine was driving his car as a teenager and all of a sudden he was receiving "two buckets full" (his words) of the Holy Spirit. He had to pull over so he wouldn't crash!
Right..so, your testimony....yes, I’m sure everyone experiences Christ differently....
 

Peterlag

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From my experience Jesus did it all. I didn't learn to put on Christ's nature. It was all of a sudden I was free from sin and given Christ's nature. It was an about face in a moment. I imagine everyone's experience is a little different from one another.

Acts 2:38 REPENT...and you shall be given the gift of the Holy Spirit.

A friend of mine was driving his car as a teenager and all of a sudden he was receiving "two buckets full" (his words) of the Holy Spirit. He had to pull over so he wouldn't crash!
It happened pretty fast for the Apostles. They were behind closed doors for fear of the Jews and a few days later they were standing in the Temple saying you listen to us... this same Jesus who you crucified has God made both Lord and Christ. Something happened to those guys in between hiding from the Jews and then getting in their face a few days later.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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It happened pretty fast for the Apostles. They were behind closed doors for fear of the Jews and a few days later they were standing in the Temple saying you listen to us... this same Jesus who you crucified has God made both Lord and Christ. Something happened to those guys in between hiding from the Jews and then getting in their face a few days later.
Amen! And their knowledge grew. All of a sudden Peter knew they were witnessing the fulfillment of Joel 2! Did you know that Saul/Paul didn't learn the gospel from the apostles? Everything he knew and wrote were straight from the Holy Spirit.
 

MatthewG

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Hebrews 4:15

For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

James 1:14-15
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Being presented with a temptation is a long way from letting yourself be enticed. And further yet from the temptation being sin.



Anything that is not done in faith is sin.

Romans 14:23 But the one who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.

Romans 14:10-23​

New American Standard Bible​

10 But as for you, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or you as well, why do you regard your brother or sister with contempt? For we will all appear before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord, to Me every knee will bow,
And every tongue will [a]give praise to God.”
12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
13 Therefore let’s not judge one another anymore, but rather [b]determine this: not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s or sister’s way. 14 I know and am convinced [c]in the Lord Jesus that nothing is [d]unclean in itself; but to the one who thinks something is [e]unclean, to that person it is [f]unclean. 15 For if because of food your brother or sister is hurt, you are no longer walking in accordance with love. Do not destroy with your choice of food that person for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be [g]spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For the one who serves Christ in this way is acceptable to God and approved by other people. 19 So then we pursue the things [h]which make for peace and the building up of one another. 20 Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the person who eats [i]and causes offense. 21 It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother or sister stumbles. 22 The faith which you have, have [j]as your own conviction before God. Happy is the one who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But the one who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.


Jesus was completely faithful to his His Father, yes he had no sin, even when going through temptations. Also no response to post :Do you speak against "Sinlessness"?
 
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