Romans 11 and the real Replacement Theology

[Timtofly]

Actually yes... Romans 5:15 says “For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” Some theologians teach that only God could pay for the sins of mankind, but the Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).

So now you think Jesus was robbing God by being equal to and in the form of God, coming as a man? Philippians 2:6-8

"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

The Word became flesh. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[Truthnightmare]

That is not racist. The lost tribes of Israel have been scattered throughout the nations for the last 2700 years. You are the one claiming God cannot keep track of His chosen people since 720BC.

Do you think the church got lost among all the nations for 2700 years?

Only racist bring up racism in a discussion. I have no problem with God calling the descendants of Jacob, Israel. Do you? Should they be called Jacobites to avoid your racist I comments?

The sheep are His brethren from all nations. You said it, not me. So calling the sheep, the lost tribes of Israel should not be an issue to you.

Interesting… I believe the house of Israel are the lost sheep Jesus spoke of.

 

[covenantee]

That is not racist. The lost tribes of Israel have been scattered throughout the nations for the last 2700 years. You are the one claiming God cannot keep track of His chosen people since 720BC.

More racism. There are no "lost tribes of Israel", because after three millennia of natural genetic dispersion and diffusion, the DNA of Israel is ubiquitous in the entire population of the planet.

God is perfectly aware of who His Chosen People are. They are the People of faith and obedience in and to Him and His Son, from every nation irrespective of ethnicity. Only modernist racist dispensatanism attempts to claim unregenerates as "chosen people" via spurious "salvation by DNA".

The sheep are His brethren from all nations. You said it, not me. So calling the sheep, the lost tribes of Israel should not be an issue to you.

Read Matthew 12:48-50, which you've ignored, and tell us who Christ's brethren are.

Hint: Nothing to do with your mythical racialized "lost tribes of Israel".

 

[Peterlag]

So now you think Jesus was robbing God by being equal to and in the form of God, coming as a man? Philippians 2:6-8

"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

The Word became flesh. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I don't see the word "form" the way you do. You see the word “form” which is the Greek word morphē, referring to Christ’s inner nature as God. This is so strongly asserted that in Philippians 2:6 the NIV has “being in very nature God.” I do not believe that morphē refers to an “inner essential nature" but rather an outer. The scholarly lexicon by Walter Bauer, translated and revised by Arndt and Gingrich, has under morphē, “form, outward appearance, shape.

 

[Truthnightmare]

More racism. There are no "lost tribes of Israel", because after three millennia of natural genetic dispersion and diffusion, the DNA of Israel is found in every individual on the planet.

God is perfectly aware of who His Chosen People are. They are the People of faith and obedience in and to Him and His Son, from every nation irrespective of ethnicity. Only modernist racist dispensatanism attempts to claim unregenerates as "chosen people" via spurious "salvation by DNA".

Read Matthew 12:48-50, which you've ignored, and tell us who Christ's brethren are.

Hint: Nothing to do with your mythical racialized "lost tribes of Israel".

Who do you believe the lost sheep are?

 

[Peterlag]

It certainly does.

"For this is My Blood of the New Covenant..."

No New Covenant?

No Blood.

I do not agree. I believe it started when the folks got spirit. Not when Jesus got blood.

 

[covenantee]

Who do you believe the lost sheep are?

What Scripture are you referring to?

 

[covenantee]

I do not agree. I believe it started when the folks got spirit. Not when Jesus got blood.

What you believe and what Jesus declared are not the same.

 

[Truthnightmare]

What Scripture are you referring to?

Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel

 

[covenantee]

Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel

Those without Christ are lost.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Those without Christ are lost.

Agreed… But the text says lost sheep of the house of Israel. Wouldn’t that mean we are talking about a specific group. It seems it would be the 10 northern tribes that went into captivity by the Assyrians and became a province of Assyria in 611 B.C.* and the people Israel dropped out of the Biblical narrative and profane history as well for the most part. They became not a people (lo-ammi).

 

[covenantee]

Agreed… But the text says lost sheep of the house of Israel. Wouldn’t that mean we are talking about a specific group. It seems it would be the 10 northern tribes that went into captivity by the Assyrians and became a province of Assyria in 611 B.C.* and the people Israel dropped out of the Biblical narrative and profane history as well for the most part. They became not a people (lo-ammi).

Yes, it's referring to the house of Israel, i.e. Israelites.

Note that Israel from its beginning and throughout its history was populated by both Jews and Gentiles. Genesis 17:12; Exodus 12:48-49; Leviticus 19:34; Leviticus 24:22

So the lost sheep were Israelites -- both Jews and Gentiles -- to whom Christ was sent.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Yes, it's referring to the house of Israel, i.e. Israelites.

Note that Israel from its beginning and throughout its history was populated by both Jews and Gentiles. Genesis 17:12; Exodus 12:48-49; Leviticus 19:34; Leviticus 24:22

So the lost sheep were Israelites -- both Jews and Gentiles -- to whom Christ was sent.

I understand your position, I do however disagree with it. In the book of 1st Kings Israel was split into two houses.

The house of Judah (some call Jews) are no longer Israel. As I stated the house of Israel became captives to the Assyrians.

The two tribe southern kingdom Judah was taken into captivity by the Babylonians. In 477 B.C.* Nebuchadnezzar took Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple of God (the same location of the Temple Mount in modern Israel). Note: At this time there are still no Jews, there is only the Kingdom of Judah. ‘

We see this separation in 2 Kings as Israel is at war with Judah.

You find the word ‘Jew’appears for the first time in 2 Kings 16:6, where the Southern Kingdom are fighting the Israelites in the North.

II Kings 16:6 "At that time Resin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day."

This distinction must be made accurately, because it presents itself time and time again.

saying,"


This is another vision, dealing still with the House of Israel. However the House of Israel is brought in to the picture, which is covering a later time period.


Ezekiel 37:16 "Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: Then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:"


On the first stick, Ezekiel wrote the name of Judah, and it will represent all those who call themselves "Jews". It doesn't matter if they have Jewish blood or not, as long as they consider themselves of Judah. These people include those people of the tribes of Benjamin, and Judah, as well as part of the Levitical priesthood.

The whole "House of Israel", are all the Christian nations around the world. The English People are the offspring of the tribe of Ephraim, in large part. However, this second stick represents all the House of Israel that were divorced by God, and brought back as the "sons of the Living God".

By using the two sticks, God is symbolizing the division between Israel, and Judah, or in terms of today; Christian and Jew.


Ezekiel 37:17 "And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand." ~ TSO​

 

[rwb]

Agreed… But the text says lost sheep of the house of Israel. Wouldn’t that mean we are talking about a specific group. It seems it would be the 10 northern tribes that went into captivity by the Assyrians and became a province of Assyria in 611 B.C.* and the people Israel dropped out of the Biblical narrative and profane history as well for the most part. They became not a people (lo-ammi).

I see a distinction made between the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and other sheep (Gentiles) that also belong to Christ that would come after them. All those sheep who belong to Christ are lost without Him. When the Gospel of Christ came to earth it was first sent to His ethnic brothers/sisters (Jews) and after the remnant according to election of grace from Old believed the Gospel by grace through faith, the Gospel was then sent unto Gentiles, the other sheep that must also hear His voice (Gospel) and with the lost sheep of the house of Israel the two become one fold with one Shepherd. It is then that the remnant of Old according to election and Gentiles who shall be saved from every nation of the world become a new people with a new name, called "the Israel of God" (Ga 6:15-16).

Matthew 15:24 (KJV) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

John 10:15 (KJV) As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
John 10:16 (KJV) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[Zao is life]

I understand your position, I do however disagree with it. In the book of 1st Kings Israel was split into two houses.

The house of Judah (some call Jews) are no longer Israel. As I stated the house of Israel became captives to the Assyrians.

The two tribe southern kingdom Judah was taken into captivity by the Babylonians. In 477 B.C.* Nebuchadnezzar took Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple of God (the same location of the Temple Mount in modern Israel). Note: At this time there are still no Jews, there is only the Kingdom of Judah. ‘

We see this separation in 2 Kings as Israel is at war with Judah.

You find the word ‘Jew’appears for the first time in 2 Kings 16:6, where the Southern Kingdom are fighting the Israelites in the North.

II Kings 16:6 "At that time Resin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day."

This distinction must be made accurately, because it presents itself time and time again.

saying,"


This is another vision, dealing still with the House of Israel. However the House of Israel is brought in to the picture, which is covering a later time period.


Ezekiel 37:16 "Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: Then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:"


On the first stick, Ezekiel wrote the name of Judah, and it will represent all those who call themselves "Jews". It doesn't matter if they have Jewish blood or not, as long as they consider themselves of Judah. These people include those people of the tribes of Benjamin, and Judah, as well as part of the Levitical priesthood.

The whole "House of Israel", are all the Christian nations around the world. The English People are the offspring of the tribe of Ephraim, in large part. However, this second stick represents all the House of Israel that were divorced by God, and brought back as the "sons of the Living God".

By using the two sticks, God is symbolizing the division between Israel, and Judah, or in terms of today; Christian and Jew.


Ezekiel 37:17 "And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand." ~ TSO​

There are some other things you should be aware of concerning this:

1. What Jacob said about them on his death-bed,
2. what Isaiah said about them,
3. what Hosea said about them, and
4. what Paul said about them:

Isaiah 7:8
within sixty-five years Ephraim shall be broken so that it shall not be a people. And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah's son.

They are collectively called Ephraim in the above verse. The prophets referred to them as Israel, the house of Israel, and Ephraim, interchangeably.

Hosea 1:6b-11a
“For I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel. But I will utterly take them away. But I will have mercy on the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son. Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for all of you are not my people, and I will not be your God.

Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, All of you are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, All of you are the sons of the living God.

Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head".

PROBLEM: "Ephraim shall be broken so that it shall not be a people." -- Isaiah 7:8

The tribes who were exiled in 725 BC and resettled in various parts of the Assyrian Empire became scattered among the nations over time, and their descendants intermarried with Gentiles which is why today no one can claim to be a descendant, and even if he could prove he was a genetic descendant of one the 10 tribes, his ancestry would be mixed.

Paul:

Romans 9:24-26
"Whom He also called, not only us, of Jews, but also of the Gentiles? As He also says in Hosea, "I will call those not My people, My people; and those not beloved, Beloved." And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them. "You are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God."

Jacob:

Genesis 48:17-19
"I know, my son, I know. He (Manasseh) too will become a nation and he too will become great. In spite of this, his younger brother (Ephraim) will be even greater and his descendants will become [the fullness of the Gentiles]* a multitude of nations."

* [ Hebrew, m'lo gôy: (the) fulnness (of the) Gentile (nations) ].

The two sticks become one in Christ because in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek.​

 

[Zao is life]

The Catholics teach we are (not were) sinners saved by grace and that means we must run to God to confess and repent our new sins every time we sin after becoming a Christian. The belief is that you will either be lost, or on your way to hell, or at the very least God will not fellowship with you, and He certainly will not answer your prayers if you are found with an unconfessed sin. Such a concept would mean everybody would be on their way to hell because there is not a person on this earth who does not have either a known or an unknown unconfessed sin. Now if this new sin just means the loss of a relationship with God, which would include unanswered prayers. Then God would not have a single person on this earth qualified to receive an answer to prayer or to be able to fellowship with Him.

Geezzz... I wonder where the Protestants got the same idea from?

Peter Jesus is the only one qualified to receive an answer to prayer or to be able to fellowship with Him. He is our Mediator between God and us. That's why we need to be abiding in Him through faith in Him. That's why we pray to the Father in the name of Jesus - my own name gets me nowhere. Jesus name gets me right into the holy of holies in heaven before the throne of God, where Christ is (with His blood that He shed for my sins).

There is no grace except in Christ and in His blood shed for sin, because of HIS righteousness.​

 

[Davy]

Every reference to sheep is figurative of Israel.

That thinking of course is wrong, and is actually conceit.


You just don't know what you're saying, because Jesus said He laid down His life for the "sheep". Trying to EXCLUDE believing Gentiles in those "sheep" is against Him and The Word of God. Your idea is an idea that the blind Pharisees would come up with.

John 10:15-16
15 As the Father knoweth Me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
KJV

That "one fold" idea Jesus said is about His Church of both believing Israelite and believing Gentiles together, as one body in Christ, as He is that "one shepherd" there.



Apostle Paul said the following to the Gentile Romans...

Rom 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, 'For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.'
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him That loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
KJV

In none of that Rom.8 Scripture does Paul point to Israel as meaning those "sheep". Instead he is speaking of all... believers on Jesus Christ, Israelite and Gentile alike.

 

[Peterlag]

Peter Jesus is the only one qualified to receive an answer to prayer or to be able to fellowship with Him. He is our Mediator between God and us. That's why we need to be abiding in Him through faith in Him. That's why we pray to the Father in the name of Jesus - my own name gets me nowhere. Jesus name gets me right into the holy of holies in heaven before the throne of God, where Christ is (with His blood that He shed for my sins).

There is no grace except in Christ and in His blood shed for sin, because of HIS righteousness.​

1 John 1:3b
...that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

 

[Zao is life]

1 John 1:3b
...that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

I'm talking about the fact that Jesus is the only one who has merited the above.

@Peterlag Who said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me." John 14:6, and why did He say it?

 

[Peterlag]

What you believe and what Jesus declared are not the same.

There is no teaching in Acts, Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians and Thessalonians about the blood of Jesus being in us. It's all about the spirit. So you can keep saying Jesus said it all day, but he did not. The Epistles teach about the spirit which is our new birth and that ministry started with our new covenant in Acts.

Here's a few verses on our spirit. Notice it does not say ye shall be baptized with the blood. Or that Peter was filled with the blood.

Acts
ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost
ye shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you
they were all filled with the Holy Ghost
I will pour out in those days of my Spirit
receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
Then Peter filled with the Holy Ghost
and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost
full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom
Stephen a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost
the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake
being full of the Holy Ghost
that they might receive the Holy Ghost
they received the Holy Ghost
be filled with the Holy Ghost
comfort of the Holy Ghost
the Spirit said unto him
the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word
the Spirit bade me go with them
the Holy Ghost fell on them
full of the Holy Ghost and of faith
Agabus signified by the Spirit
filled with the Holy Ghost
the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Ghost
giving them the Holy Ghost
Paul was pressed in the spirit
instructed in the way of the Lord and being fervent in the spirit
Have ye received the Holy Ghost
the Holy Ghost came on them
Paul purposed in the spirit
bound in the spirit
who said to Paul through the Spirit
were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake
Stephen calling upon God and saying Lord Jesus receive my spirit
while Paul waited for them at Athens his spirit was stirred in him
was instructed in the way of the Lord and being fervent in the spirit
Romans
serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son
love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost
serve in newness of spirit
in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit
they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit
in the Spirit if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you
the Spirit is life because of righteousness
if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you
shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you
if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God they are the sons of God
ye have received the Spirit of adoption
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children
ourselves also which have the firstfruits of the Spirit
the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities
the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us
he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit
fervent in spirit serving the Lord
1 Corinthians
in demonstration of the Spirit and of power
God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit
the Spirit searcheth all things yea the deep things of God
have received not the spirit of the world but the spirit which is of God
the Spirit of God dwelleth in you
no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed
no man can say that Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Ghost
the manifestation of the Spirit
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit
2 Corinthians
given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts
God who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit
Galatians
Received ye the Spirit
having begun in the Spirit
He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit
God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son
For we through the Spirit
Walk in the Spirit
the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh
But if ye be led of the Spirit
But the fruit of the Spirit
If we live in the Spirit let us also walk in the Spirit
Ephesians
sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
have access by one Spirit unto the Father
ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit
it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit
strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man
be renewed in the spirit of your mind
grieve not the holy Spirit of God
the fruit of the Spirit
be filled with the Spirit
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit
Philippians
worship God in the spirit
1 Thessalonians
in power and in the Holy Ghost
God who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit
your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless

To learn more... www.carb-fat.com/jesus.html