How Jesus has ALREADY Reconciled Us and the World unto God.

[JBO]

So you teach as long as a person never sinned they will enter the eternal kingdom of Christ/God.

And you think that a person who never sinned would be eternally condemned anyway? Interesting. Why do you think God would do that?

 

[JBO]

Lol, why is that unfortunate ?

Would you prefer to have died as a baby not knowing God?

 

[Robert Pate]

Why do folks like you always point to the first parts of Romans 5:18 and 19 and then fail to understand that it is the last parts of those verses that Paul is focusing on? And then even when you do discuss the last parts you fail to understand what Paul is even saying.

There is really a lot to be said about that entire passage in Romans 5. I will cut it very,, very short and simply point out a couple things. First, the "For as...."so by" construction of verse 19 (similarly for verse 18) indicates that it is the "so by" that is the main point of the sentence. Second, the comparison given there is specifically the difference in the effects upon mankind (the many) of Adam's disobedience and Jesus' obedience. It is important to understand that "the many" that are affected by Jesus' obedience are the same as "the many" who are affected by Adam's disobedience.

Then, who are "the many" affected by Adam's disobedience? All, I think, would agree that that is the whole of mankind; it is every person since Adam who has ever been born. Thus we would conclude that "the many" affected by Jesus' obedience must be the same, that is, the whole of mankind; it is every person since Adam who has ever been born. But you ask, "How can that be?" The answer is in at what point in the lives of the many is Paul talking about. Clearly, again as everyone agrees, the effect of Adam's disobedience is on the just born. Therefore, that is the same for the effect of Jesus' obedience. The entire discussion in Romans 5:12-19 concerns the condition of the new born or just born.

What Paul is telling us there is that whatever you think the effect of Adam's disobedience might have been on the new born or the just born, it was negated by Jesus' obedience. If the effect of Adam's sin was that the new borns comes into the world made sinners, then the effect of Jesus' obedience is that the new borns comes into the world made righteous. Nothing in that passage is talking about what happens after that. Neither the effects of Adam's disobedience nor the effects of Jesus' obedience upon the many after being born are discussed there. That discussion is contained in the very next chapter, chapter 6. It is chapter 6 that Paul discusses the effect of Jesus obedience on the one who sins. Paul said in chapter 5 that you might have thought that Adam's sin brought original sin, but the important thing is that Jesus' perfect sacrifice brought original grace. The spirit God forms in each of us is righteous and alive. It is only after that when one sins that the spirit becomes unrighteous and dead.

The fact that your post is long and difficult to understand tells me that you don't know what you are talking about.

Let me simplify it, Adam was the representative of the human race, As Adam goes, so go we. Adam was also the father of the human race, we all have his blood coursing through our veins. We are related to him by blood. "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into the world" Romans 5:12. Because we are all born after Adam.

Jesus is the new representative. He does not have Adam's blood because he is born after God. When we accept Christ as our savior we become new Creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17. God no longer sees us in Adam, he now sees us in Christ.

 

[JBO]

The fact that your post is long and difficult to understand tells me that you don't know what you are talking about.

And that tells me that you can't read. That is obvious from you nearly complete lack of understanding of scripture.

But I will give you a chance. Jesus said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved". Please tell me, what do you think He meant? I am really curious to know what your interpretation of what Jesus said there might be.

 

[Robert Pate]

And that tells me that you can't read. That is obvious from you nearly complete lack of understanding of scripture.

But I will give you a chance. Jesus said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved". Please tell me, what do you think He meant? I am really curious to know what your interpretation of what Jesus said there might be.

Water baptism is a public profession of one's faith in Christ. Spiritual baptism is what happens when one accepts Christ as their savior. They are spiritually baptized into Christ. I believe that Jesus was talking about the spiritual baptism.

 

[JBO]

Water baptism is a public profession of one's faith in Christ. Spiritual baptism is what happens when one accepts Christ as their savior.

Where does it say that?

 

[Behold]

Water baptism is a public profession of one's faith in Christ. Spiritual baptism is what happens when one accepts Christ as their savior. They are spiritually baptized into Christ. I believe that Jesus was talking about the spiritual baptism.

"one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism"... and that baptism is not water.

It's Spiritual Regeneration, that occurs on the INSIDE of you, where your Spirit Exist's.

Water, only touches the outside of you, whereas the Holy Spirit who performs this new birth, does so, on the inside of you.

Once we are born again, on the inside, we go and get in the water. = symbolic.

 

[brightfame52]

Would you prefer to have died as a baby not knowing God?

They will know God won't they if they die innocent having not sinned.

So why is that unfortunate ?

 

[brightfame52]

Would you prefer to have died as a baby not knowing God?

So your innocent babies get into heaven in another way than by Christ. They get in by their innocent flesh and blood right ? 1 Cor 15:50

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood[except innocent babies] cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Everyone is ALREADY born saved. Jesus in our name and on our behalf has ALREADY fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law.

Those who are written in the Book of Life are scheduled to be saved. GOD orchestrates a plan unique for each individual. Some are called soon in life and others later and even just prior to death. But not everyone is saved. Not everyone are His sheep. Have you heard of tares or goats?

"These will pay the penalty of everlasting (age-lasting or age- during) destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,"
2 Thes. 1:9

"and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."
John 5:29

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Rom. 1:28-32

> A reprobate is irredeemable. Simply, God let's these individuals go to live and do the things they want. Throughout life, to be fair, He makes many attempts to draw all men to Himself, to bring the gospel to them and many reject it.
>> They reject Christ to their death and will be judged, condemned to destruction.

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. JOHN 3:16

"For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live." Ezek. 18:32
>Turn means to repent before your die! The Bible throughout pleads to the godless to repent ... before it is too late.

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Matt. 10:28

"Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again." Psalm 140:10

Eternal Life Is given during this physical life.

"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me but also to all who have longed for his appearing."
2 Tim. 4:7-8
> This scripture is speaking to believers. Unbelievers do not share this experience or destiny. They haven't fought the fight, they haven't even entered the race and they don't have faith.

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade."
1 Pet. 1:3-4
> A message to believers! This happens only while one is alive. If you die without Christ, you will not have life.

"Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.' John 11:25-26

"Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. Rev. 20:6
> That second death is destruction in the Lake of Fire!

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Rom. 1:16
> Belief in Christ _ in this life _ is the essence of salvation!

In summation:

"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13:14

"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36

A fundamental belief in Universalism is either a denial of the above scriptures or distortion of them!

 

[JBO]

Those who are written in the Book of Life are scheduled to be saved. GOD orchestrates a plan unique for each individual. Some are called soon in life and others later and even just prior to death. But not everyone is saved. Not everyone are His sheep. Have you heard of tares or goats?

"These will pay the penalty of everlasting (age-lasting or age- during) destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,"
2 Thes. 1:9

"and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."
John 5:29

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Rom. 1:28-32

> A reprobate is irredeemable. Simply, God let's these individuals go to live and do the things they want. Throughout life, to be fair, He makes many attempts to draw all men to Himself, to bring the gospel to them and many reject it.
>> They reject Christ to their death and will be judged, condemned to destruction.

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. JOHN 3:16

"For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live." Ezek. 18:32
>Turn means to repent before your die! The Bible throughout pleads to the godless to repent ... before it is too late.

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Matt. 10:28

"Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again." Psalm 140:10

Eternal Life Is given during this physical life.

"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me but also to all who have longed for his appearing."
2 Tim. 4:7-8
> This scripture is speaking to believers. Unbelievers do not share this experience or destiny. They haven't fought the fight, they haven't even entered the race and they don't have faith.

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade."
1 Pet. 1:3-4
> A message to believers! This happens only while one is alive. If you die without Christ, you will not have life.

"Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.' John 11:25-26

"Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. Rev. 20:6
> That second death is destruction in the Lake of Fire!

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Rom. 1:16
> Belief in Christ _ in this life _ is the essence of salvation!

In summation:

"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13:14

"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36

A fundamental belief in Universalism is either a denial of the above scriptures or distortion of them!

That babies are born innocent is not a belief in universalism. It is a belief in a just God who would not condemn one for another's sin. It is what that one does after being born that determines his eternal fate.

 

[JBO]

So your innocent babies get into heaven in another way than by Christ. They get in by their innocent flesh and blood right ? 1 Cor 15:50

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood[except innocent babies] cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Huh??? If they are born with the sin of Adam imputed unto them, how are they innocent?

 

[JBO]

"one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism"... and that baptism is not water.

Think what you will, but there is no indication that it was not in water. Given that John's baptism was in water, as was Jesus' (His disciples) baptism in water, in only makes sense that Peter's baptism (Acts 2:38) and all other mentions of baptism in the NT was in water. I could go into that a lot further, but I suspect it would not change your mind.

Water baptism was mostly understood by the church, excepting the RCC, until Zwingli came along in the early 1500s and tried to change the RCC's faulty approach to baptism. But he went overboard and rather than correct the RCC's approach, he proposed baptism as a covenant sign.

 

[Robert Pate]

Those who are written in the Book of Life are scheduled to be saved. GOD orchestrates a plan unique for each individual. Some are called soon in life and others later and even just prior to death. But not everyone is saved. Not everyone are His sheep. Have you heard of tares or goats?

"These will pay the penalty of everlasting (age-lasting or age- during) destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,"
2 Thes. 1:9

"and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."
John 5:29

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Rom. 1:28-32

> A reprobate is irredeemable. Simply, God let's these individuals go to live and do the things they want. Throughout life, to be fair, He makes many attempts to draw all men to Himself, to bring the gospel to them and many reject it.
>> They reject Christ to their death and will be judged, condemned to destruction.

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. JOHN 3:16

"For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live." Ezek. 18:32
>Turn means to repent before your die! The Bible throughout pleads to the godless to repent ... before it is too late.

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Matt. 10:28

"Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again." Psalm 140:10

Eternal Life Is given during this physical life.

"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me but also to all who have longed for his appearing."
2 Tim. 4:7-8
> This scripture is speaking to believers. Unbelievers do not share this experience or destiny. They haven't fought the fight, they haven't even entered the race and they don't have faith.

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade."
1 Pet. 1:3-4
> A message to believers! This happens only while one is alive. If you die without Christ, you will not have life.

"Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.' John 11:25-26

"Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. Rev. 20:6
> That second death is destruction in the Lake of Fire!

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Rom. 1:16
> Belief in Christ _ in this life _ is the essence of salvation!

In summation:

"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13:14

"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36

A fundamental belief in Universalism is either a denial of the above scriptures or distortion of them!

Salvation has been provided for everyone. However, nothing is ours until it is received by faith.

 

[brightfame52]

Huh??? If they are born with the sin of Adam imputed unto them, how are they innocent?

I dont know what you talking about. You claim babies are innocent and never sinned, not me

 

[Robert Pate]

I dont know what you talking about. You claim babies are innocent and never sinned, not me

Babies are born innocent until they reach the age of accountability, usually between 5 and 10.

 

[brightfame52]

Babies are born innocent until they reach the age of accountability, usually between 5 and 10.

There you go with more foolishness, so if a baby dies before the age of accountability , will they go to heaven with the saved ?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

That babies are born innocent is not a belief in universalism. It is a belief in a just God who would not condemn one for another's sin. It is what that one does after being born that determines his eternal fate.

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb;
They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life
>>We are born guilty with this sin nature. An infant starts sinning before they can even talk, rebelling, lying, manipulative, selfish ...

Genesis 8:21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Salvation has been provided for everyone. However, nothing is ours until it is received by faith.

People get old and bitter and die without faith, without God. Atheists like Stephen Hawking died without knowing God. He spent his life trying to disprove the notion. The universe could deliver answers and was confounded. He realized that this universe was too ordered to have have happened by chance ... so there must be billions of universes. He who says there is nobody is a fool. And sobfrom genius to fool ... andnhe led others down thatbpath as well. Many scientists are atheists who buy into The Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang.
Steve Hawking was already judged from the time he entered college as he slowly lost his mobility. Gifted, yet failed to recognize the one who gifted him.
Once you die, you can be certain your destiny is fixed - you are either with Christ or without Him. There are no second chances after death ... the gospel isn't spread down there.

 

[Robert Pate]

There you go with more foolishness, so if a baby dies before the age of accountability , will they go to heaven with the saved ?

God is the just judge. Not everyone wants to go to heaven and be with Christ. God will probably give everyone what they want.