How Jesus has ALREADY Reconciled Us and the World unto God.

[JBO]

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.

If there is any sin described in that verse, it is the sin of his mother.

Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb;
They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

I was fortunate to be the father of two boys. They are both above average intelligence, but they didn't actually talk for quite a few months after they were born. And it was much longer even before they even knew the difference between truth and lies. So obviously, that verse is quite obviously hyperbole.

Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life
>>We are born guilty with this sin nature. An infant starts sinning before they can even talk, rebelling, lying, manipulative, selfish ...

The point that Paul was making in that verse is in the second half. "even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men." The all men to whom Justification of life came, is the same all men to whom judgment came. Since the judgment came to all men at birth, even so justification of life came to all men at birth. In other words, the effect of Jesus' obedience was to negate the effect of Adam's disobedience. Paul is not talking there about the effect of Jesus' obedience on the sins of man; he is talking there about effect of Jesus' obedience on the sin of Adam.

Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

The usual interpretation of that passage has the effect of Adam's sin upon the whole of mankind at birth, but the effect of Jesus' righteousness upon only a few who are saved later in life. There is no way such an interpretation can it be said that "much more did the grace of god abound to the many.

Genesis 8:21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Again, the intent here is hyperbole. We know that since just a couple of verses later it says that Noah was a righteous man.

 

[JBO]

There you go with more foolishness, so if a baby dies before the age of accountability , will they go to heaven with the saved ?

You really think God would condemn them to hell because Adam sinned?

 

[brightfame52]

God is the just judge. Not everyone wants to go to heaven and be with Christ. God will probably give everyone what they want.

So babies make a decision whether or not they want to go to heaven or not. Incredible

 

[Robert Pate]

So babies make a decision whether or not they want to go to heaven or not. Incredible

I didn't say that.

As long as you hold negative beliefs about God and his Son Jesus Christ you will never see heaven.

 

[brightfame52]

You really think God would condemn them to hell because Adam sinned?

Are they going to heaven to be with the Lord ? Have these babies kept Gods Law Perfectly ? Only those who obey and are doers of the Law shall be Justified. Rom 2:10-13

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Matt 19:17


And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Maybe Jesus should have added babies along with God as being Good.

 

[brightfame52]

I didn't say that.

As long as you hold negative beliefs about God and his Son Jesus Christ you will never see heaven.

Are babies going to heaven ? They are innocent so say you ?

 

[Robert Pate]

Are babies going to heaven ? They are innocent so say you ?

What kind of a God would condemn a baby to hell? Only your Calvinist God.

 

[brightfame52]

What kind of a God would condemn a baby to hell? Only your Calvinist God.

Are babies going to heaven with the saved ?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

If there is any sin described in that verse, it is the sin of his mother.

I was fortunate to be the father of two boys. They are both above average intelligence, but they didn't actually talk for quite a few months after they were born. And it was much longer even before they even knew the difference between truth and lies. So obviously, that verse is quite obviously hyperbole.

The point that Paul was making in that verse is in the second half. "even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men." The all men to whom Justification of life came, is the same all men to whom judgment came. Since the judgment came to all men at birth, even so justification of life came to all men at birth. In other words, the effect of Jesus' obedience was to negate the effect of Adam's disobedience. Paul is not talking there about the effect of Jesus' obedience on the sins of man; he is talking there about effect of Jesus' obedience on the sin of Adam.

Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

The usual interpretation of that passage has the effect of Adam's sin upon the whole of mankind at birth, but the effect of Jesus' righteousness upon only a few who are saved later in life. There is no way such an interpretation can it be said that "much more did the grace of god abound to the many.

Again, the intent here is hyperbole. We know that since just a couple of verses later it says that Noah was a righteous man.

This is an example of people who do not accept the literal interpretation of scripture because it doesn't work with their life or view, so they distort it, symbolize it: "Since the Bible does use symbolism - this must be one of those verse?" Nice try. It is a false view. We are born in sin. Infants have since nature to lie, manipulate their parents, act out with anger or tears to get there way, disobey, rebel...
I had a daughter, she was good, had few problems with her when she was young, but tested me when she hooked up with this bad boy at 18. She got me so frustrated, I pleaded with God, take me now. Well, he didn't and she finally realized her mistakes and dumped him. But my granddaughter is another story. Terrible two tantrums, constantly disobeying, testing us to the hilt. Those tears are little lies. She is not in any pain, she fakes it for attention and manipulates. But it doesn't fly with me - Ha! She is angry for not getting her way, so she puts up a stink.
So we punish, discipline them because they are doing wrong, evil. They are selfish and that selfishness grows. Most kids are selfish, rebellious and defiant against authority and just simply, that is sin isn't it? We are supposed to love our neighbors as ourselves and many adults struggle with that. Kids aren't even aware of this commandment, yet they are prone to break it readily right out-of the womb, (pre-programmed like a computer infected with a virus.) That is the sin nature.

 

[JBO]

This is an example of people who do not accept the literal interpretation of scripture because it doesn't work with their life or view, so they distort it, symbolize it: "Since the Bible does use symbolism - this must be one of those verse?" Nice try. It is a false view. We are born in sin. Infants have since nature to lie, manipulate their parents, act out with anger or tears to get there way, disobey, rebel...
I had a daughter, she was good, had few problems with her when she was young, but tested me when she hooked up with this bad boy at 18. She got me so frustrated, I pleaded with God, take me now. Well, he didn't and she finally realized her mistakes and dumped him. But my granddaughter is another story. Terrible two tantrums, constantly disobeying, testing us to the hilt. Those tears are little lies. She is not in any pain, she fakes it for attention and manipulates. But it doesn't fly with me - Ha! She is angry for not getting her way, so she puts up a stink.
So we punish, discipline them because they are doing wrong, evil. They are selfish and that selfishness grows. Most kids are selfish, rebellious and defiant against authority and just simply, that is sin isn't it? We are supposed to love our neighbors as ourselves and many adults struggle with that. Kids aren't even aware of this commandment, yet they are prone to break it readily right out-of the womb, (pre-programmed like a computer infected with a virus.) That is the sin nature.

Sin nature is not a sin. It is clear that you do not even understand what sin really is.

 

[Robert Pate]

Are babies going to heaven with the saved ?

Of course babies are saved. Only your Calvinist God would condemn a baby to hell.

 

[JBO]

Are they going to heaven to be with the Lord ? Have these babies kept Gods Law Perfectly ?

They haven't broken any laws. They haven't a clue even what the law is. For them there is no law. And "sin is not imputed when there is no law"(Rom 5:13).

 

[brightfame52]

Of course babies are saved. Only your Calvinist God would condemn a baby to hell.

So babies are saved but not by the Blood of Christ correct ? Is that what you believe ?

 

[brightfame52]

They haven't broken any laws. They haven't a clue even what the law is. For them there is no law. And "sin is not imputed when there is no law"(Rom 5:13).

Have they kept the Law ? thats required

Matt 19:16-17

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

[Behold]

we pray you in Christ's stead, be reconciled unto God" 2 Corinthians 5:20.

1.) "BE reconciled to God"

"BE" means "BELIEVE" = and your "faith is counted as Righteousness" and you will be "Justified by faith"., without water and without works.

= "The GIFT of Salvation".

Once you = BELIEVE (FAITH in Christ)...., God will forgive all your sin, and eternally reconcile you to Himself through the finished work "SACRIFICE" = of Jesus on the Cross.

This is the New Covenant.

This is the New Testament

This is the Blood Atonement.

WE, the Christians are to tell the unbelieving world to come and "BE Reconciled to God" as Jesus has made it possible by shedding His blood and dying for all their/our sin.

This is the "Preaching of the Cross", that is the Gospel of THE Grace of God., which is: = "the POWER of God, unto SALVATION".

 

[JBO]

Have they kept the Law ?

They have not broken any law. They have not sinned. They are righteous.

 

[brightfame52]

They have not broken any law. They have not sinned. They are righteous.

Have they kept the Law, thats positive, What did Jesus say ? Man owes obedience to Gods Law as He is their Creator Matt 19:16-17

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

[brightfame52]

They have not broken any law. They have not sinned. They are righteous.

So you believe men/people are born righteous. Are they born as righteous as Christ is ?

 

[Robert Pate]

So babies are saved but not by the Blood of Christ correct ? Is that what you believe ?

Babies know nothing about Christ. Here is a real tough one for you. "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERYONE" Hebrews 2:9.

 

[JBO]

So you believe men/people are born righteous. Are they born as righteous as Christ is ?

Yes.

Mat 18:1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, "Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
Mat 18:2 And He called a child to Himself and set him before them,
Mat 18:3 and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Only the righteous will enter the kingdom of heaven,