Did God Kill Jesus?

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The Learner

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Jesus’ BODY is Spiritual, without beginning, without ending, the same yesterday, today, tomorrow.

His BODY revealed IN the world, was MADE Visible to mankind’s natural EYES, “ONLY” by, through, of God Himself “Preparing” “A BODY” for Jesus, For
When He would come From Heaven to Earth, (ie “The World”).

Jesus (Gods Word) … IN God, IN Heaven, Came forth OUT from God IN Heaven, (called BORN of God) was SENT to the World, SENT to a selected Virgin womb of a Woman (of expressly A Jewish woman betrothed to a Jewish man OF the House of David and the Jewish woman Agreed with Gods selection of her Virgin womb, and the Jewish man Agreed to commence with his marriage proposal (betrothal) to that woman, and not engage with his wife in a sexual relationship until After the birth of a child SENT to her womb). In the same FASHION as human births, being After nine months the child in her Virgin Womb would be born…would be called Jesus, the Son of Man (and revealed to that woman, that child would also /at some point in time, be Called the Son of God.

There is ZERO Scriptural teaching that HUMAN men come forth OUT from God IN Heaven and are then SENT to Earth!

You repeatedly preaching a mans CARNAL teaching and CARNAL understanding is FALSE on its face.

HUMAN Forms/Body’s are DUST of the ground
And
Return to DUST.

Gen 2
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen.3
[19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 6:
[38] For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

No where does Scripture teach Jesus’ BODY was DUST of the ground or Returned to DUST.

You have been hoodwinked and continue preaching the same that fooled you…to the detriment of others that do not verify what you claim.

Best for you to read and believe scripture rather than men.
Jesus’ BODY is Spiritual, without beginning, without ending, the same yesterday, today, tomorrow.

Huh???
 
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The Learner

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Hebrews 10
Easy-to-Read Version
Jesus Christ—the Only Sacrifice We Need
10 The law gave us only an unclear picture of the good things coming in the future. The law is not a perfect picture of the real things. The law tells people to offer the same sacrifices every year. Those who come to worship God continue to offer those sacrifices. But the law can never make them perfect. 2 If the law could make people perfect, those sacrifices would have already stopped. They would already be clean from their sins, and they would not still feel guilty. 3 But that’s not what happens. Their sacrifices make them remember their sins every year, 4 because it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5 So when Christ came into the world he said,

“You don’t want sacrifices and offerings,
but you have prepared a body for me.
6 You are not pleased with the sacrifices of animals killed and burned
or with offerings to take away sins.
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am, God.
It is written about me in the book of the law.

I have come to do what you want.’”

8 Christ first said, “You don’t want sacrifices and offerings. You are not pleased with animals killed and burned or with sacrifices to take away sin.” (These are all sacrifices that the law commands.) 9 Then he said, “Here I am, God. I have come to do what you want.” So God ends that first system of sacrifices and starts his new way. 10 Jesus Christ did the things God wanted him to do. And because of that, we are made holy through the sacrifice of Christ’s body. Christ made that sacrifice one time—enough for all time.

11 Every day the priests stand and do their religious service. Again and again they offer the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But Christ offered only one sacrifice for sins, and that sacrifice is good for all time. Then he sat down at the right side of God. 13 And now Christ waits there for his enemies to be put under his power.[a] 14 With one sacrifice Christ made his people perfect forever. They are the ones who are being made holy.

15 The Holy Spirit also tells us about this. First he says,

16 “This is the agreement I will make
with my people in the future, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts.
I will write my laws in their minds.”

17 Then he says,

“I will forget their sins
and never again remember the evil they have done.”

18 And after everything is forgiven, there is no more need for a sacrifice to pay for sins.

Come Near to God
19 And so, brothers and sisters, we are completely free to enter the Most Holy Place.[c] We can do this without fear because of the blood sacrifice of Jesus. 20 We enter through a new way that Jesus opened for us. It is a living way that leads through the curtain—Christ’s body. 21 And we have a great priest who rules the house of God. 22 Sprinkled with the blood of Christ, our hearts have been made free from a guilty conscience, and our bodies have been washed with pure water. So come near to God with a sincere heart, full of confidence because of our faith in Christ. 23 We must hold on to the hope we have, never hesitating to tell people about it. We can trust God to do what he promised.

Help Each Other Be Strong
24 We should think about each other to see how we can encourage each other to show love and do good works. 25 We must not quit meeting together, as some are doing. No, we need to keep on encouraging each other. This becomes more and more important as you see the Day getting closer.

Don’t Turn Away From God’s Son
26 If we decide to continue sinning after we have learned the truth, then there is no other sacrifice that will take away sins. 27 If we continue sinning, all that is left for us is a fearful time of waiting for the judgment and the angry fire that will destroy those who live against God. 28 Whoever refused to obey the Law of Moses was found guilty from the testimony given by two or three witnesses. Such people were not forgiven. They were killed. 29 So think how much more punishment people deserve who show their hate for the Son of God—people who show they have no respect for the blood sacrifice that began the new agreement and once made them holy or who insult the Spirit of God’s grace. 30 We know that God said, “I will punish people for the wrongs they do; I will repay them.”[d] And he also said, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a terrible thing to face punishment from the living God.

Keep the Courage and Patience You Had
32 Remember the days when you first learned the truth. You had a hard struggle with much suffering, but you continued strong. 33 Sometimes people said hateful things to you and mistreated you in public. And sometimes you helped others who were being treated that same way. 34 Yes, you helped them in prison and shared in their suffering. And you were still happy when everything you owned was taken away from you. You continued to be happy, because you knew that you had something much better—something that would continue forever.

35 So don’t lose the courage that you had in the past. Your courage will be rewarded richly. 36 You must be patient. After you have done what God wants, you will get what he promised you. 37 He says,

“Very soon now, the one who is coming
will come and will not be late.
38 The person who is right with me
will live by trusting in me.
But I will not be pleased with the one
who turns back in fear.”

39 But we are not those who turn back and are lost. No, we are the people who have faith and are saved.
 

The Learner

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Interesting discussion friends. I think the human spirit of Jesus was just the life force.
 

Taken

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Jesus’ BODY is Spiritual, without beginning, without ending, the same yesterday, today, tomorrow.

Huh???

Heb 13:
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

John 8:
[58] Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 8;
[24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Rev 1:
[17] And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
[18] I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Isa 41:
[4] Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

John 9:
[9] Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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Interesting discussion friends. I think the human spirit of Jesus was just the life force.

Jesus being A HUMAN, Jesus having a HUMAN “spirit” is a mans invention.

Humans are created beings of dust of the earth, created and made by the Power of God, for His pleasure.

Gods LIFE is Spirit, who is called by A Name Above All other Names which God Himself Declared.

Phil 2:
[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

What was Jesus’ FORM (body) and REPUTATION (Unseen creator, maker), before He took upon His FORM, the form (body) of a servant (human) ?
 

MatthewG

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@The Learner , when it comes to the human spirit of Jesus, I also merit it being the soul of Jesus, the mind/will/emotions of doing the will of his Father, which he committed unto the hands of his Father, however he still went to sheol/hades/hell, going from Paradise to Prison, before having been raised again by the Holy Spirit of God.

Just some of my thoughts on that matter, and it is said somewhere in scripture "Gods will to have his Son Crushed.

Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him with pain. When you make his life an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, and shall prolong his days; through him, the will of the LORD shall prosper. Isaiah 53:10

God did have the plan in mind, to crush Jesus with pain. Jesus by his own free will, allowed the will of the Fathers to be done in and through him, so again on the subject did God kill his Son? Not at all, because it was on behalf of the Lord Jesus, by his spirit (soul), to do the will of the Father out of love for him, and not only for him but also everyone else in the world.

It was the children of Israel who said to Pilate "His blood rest on our hands and our children's hands."

All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!” Matthew 27:25

And therefore because of their choice, judgment was cast upon those who decided to make the land for themselves and killed the author of life.

You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. Acts 3:15
 

Sigma

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Jesus being A HUMAN, Jesus having a HUMAN “spirit” is a mans invention.

In Jn. 1:14, in the original language Koine Greek, the word "σάρξ" (flesh) is used, and it refers to a human, and thus the phrase "the Word [God] became flesh" means God incarnated Himself becoming human: Jesus, by being conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit (God), who then carried Him for 9 months and delivered Him from Her womb. That is Scripture. Therefore, your interpretation of other verses where you think it says Jesus was not human are just wrong.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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For those of you interested in this question, this PDF offers an explanation which will surprise most.
Yes. It was the predetermined counsel of the god head that the Word would incarnate as Jesus and die fore the sins of mankind. The Pharisees and the romans were merely the tools God used to sacrifice Jesus on our behalf.
 

Taken

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In Jn. 1:14, in the original language Koine Greek, the word "σάρξ" (flesh) is used, and it refers to a human, and thus the phrase "the Word [God] became flesh" means God incarnated Himself becoming human: Jesus, by being conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit (God), who then carried Him for 9 months and delivered Him from Her womb. That is Scripture. Therefore, your interpretation of other verses where you think it says Jesus was not human are just wrong.

You have been given and side-stepped Scriptural Knowledge which requires zero interpretation to simply read and believe it or not… In my case I believe it…in your case you side-step, and continue repeating your false understanding and false accusations.

I have zero interest in your erroneous preaching and conceit of your false accusations.

Rom 11:
[25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Thus

1 Cor 14:
[38] But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
 

Stumpmaster

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In Jn. 1:14, in the original language Koine Greek, the word "σάρξ" (flesh) is used, and it refers to a human, and thus the phrase "the Word [God] became flesh" means God incarnated Himself becoming human: Jesus, by being conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit (God), who then carried Him for 9 months and delivered Him from Her womb. That is Scripture. Therefore, your interpretation of other verses where you think it says Jesus was not human are just wrong.
John in particular emphasises the incarnation of Christ, conceived in a human womb, endowed with a human body, experiencing human existence, and other Scriptures are aligned also.

Heb 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Heb 5:7-8 For Jesus, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications with strong cryings and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard in that He feared, (8) though being a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.

1Jn 4:2-3 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, (3) and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

Docetism is a Christian heresy that denied the reality of Christ's human body and sufferings12345. It comes from the Greek word dokein, meaning "to seem"123. Docetists believed that Christ only appeared to have a human body and to die on the cross, but in fact he had a spiritual or celestial body2345. Docetism was opposed by the early church as a false doctrine13.
 
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Sigma

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You have been given and side-stepped Scriptural Knowledge which requires zero interpretation to simply read and believe it or not…

In Jn. 1:14, in the original language Koine Greek, the word "σάρξ" (flesh) is used, and here is the definition: "flesh, body, the soft tissue of a creature, often in contrast to bone, ligament, or sinew; by extension human, humankind...", and thus the phrase "the Word [God] became flesh" in Jn. 1:14 means God incarnated Himself becoming human: Jesus, by being conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit (God), who then carried Him for 9 months and delivered Him from Her womb. That is Scripture, not an interpretation. Therefore, your interpretation of other verses where you think it says Jesus was not human are just wrong.
 

Taken

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John in particular emphasises the incarnation of Christ, conceived in a human womb, endowed with a human body, experiencing human existence, and other Scriptures are aligned also.

Do you believe created beings called angels ARE spirits, or ARE humans?
 

quietthinker

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Yes. It was the predetermined counsel of the god head that the Word would incarnate as Jesus and die fore the sins of mankind. The Pharisees and the romans were merely the tools God used to sacrifice Jesus on our behalf.
or were the pharisee's and romans the tools of Satan to murder Jesus?
 

Ronald Nolette

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or were the pharisee's and romans the tools of Satan to murder Jesus?
God is the first cause:

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Though men were the physical tools used by god to slay Jesus, it was the counsel of the godhead in advasnce this would happen and that God would deliver Jesus up.
 

Sigma

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John in particular emphasises the incarnation of Christ, conceived in a human womb, endowed with a human body, experiencing human existence, and other Scriptures are aligned also.

Heb 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Heb 5:7-8 For Jesus, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications with strong cryings and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard in that He feared, (8) though being a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.

1Jn 4:2-3 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, (3) and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

Docetism is a Christian heresy that denied the reality of Christ's human body and sufferings12345. It comes from the Greek word dokein, meaning "to seem"123. Docetists believed that Christ only appeared to have a human body and to die on the cross, but in fact he had a spiritual or celestial body2345. Docetism was opposed by the early church as a false doctrine13.

Right, Jesus is God incarnated, a human!
 
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quietthinker

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God is the first cause:

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Though men were the physical tools used by god to slay Jesus, it was the counsel of the godhead in advasnce this would happen and that God would deliver Jesus up.
Prediction does not equal causation.
I can accurately predict you'll be dead in a hundred years. My prediction does not mean I caused your death.
 

Stumpmaster

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Do you believe created beings called angels ARE spirits, or ARE humans?
Cutting to the chase, I believe these 19 verses of the Bible, (see highlights)

Heb 1:1-14 God, who at many times and in many ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, (2) has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds, (3) who being the shining splendor of His glory, and the express image of His essence, and upholding all things by the word of His power, through Himself cleansing of our sins, He sat down on the right of the Majesty on high, (4) being made so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. (5) For to which of the angels did He say at any time, "You are My Son, this day I have begotten You?" And again, "I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son?" (6) And again, when He brings in the First-born into the world, He says, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." (7) And of the angels He says, "Who makes His angels spirits and His ministers a flame of fire." (8) But to the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. (9) You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity, therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your fellows." (10) And, "You, Lord, have laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of Your hands. (11) They shall perish, but You will remain. And they shall all become old as a garment, (12) and as a covering You shall fold them up, and they shall be changed. But You are the same, and Your years shall not fail." (13) But to which of the angels, did He say at any time, "Sit on My right hand until I make Your enemies Your footstool?" (14) Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for those who shall be heirs of salvation?

Heb 2:5-9 For He has not put in subjection to the angels the world to come, of which we speak. (6) But one testified in a certain place, saying, "What is man, that You are mindful of him; or the son of man, that You visit him? (7) You have made him a little lower than the angels. You crowned him with glory and honor and set him over the works of Your hands. (8) You subjected all things under his feet." For in subjecting all things to Him, He did not leave anything not subjected to Him. But now we do not see all things having been subjected to him. (9) But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, that He by the grace of God should taste death for all.

If Jesus didn't physically die as a human then no plenary and perpetual sacrifice for sin has been made and none are saved.

If Jesus wasn't physically resurrected as a human then no victory over death has been achieved and none of us will be resurrected to eternal life in Christ.

Praise God that Jesus did physically die as a human and was physically resurrected as a human.
 
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Taken

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QUESTION…
Do you believe created beings called angels ARE spirits, or ARE humans?

ANSWER…

Cutting to the chase, I believe these 19 verses of the Bible, (see highlights)

:rolleyes:

Do you believe created beings called angels ARE spirits, or ARE humans?

Cutting to the chase…

Do you believe created beings called angels ARE spirits, or ARE humans?

Created beings called angels ARE spirits.
 

Stumpmaster

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QUESTION…
Do you believe created beings called angels ARE spirits, or ARE humans?

ANSWER…



:rolleyes:

Do you believe created beings called angels ARE spirits, or ARE humans?

Cutting to the chase…

Do you believe created beings called angels ARE spirits, or ARE humans?

Created beings called angels ARE spirits.
Angels often take human form, but that's irrelevant to the incarnation of Christ our Lord and Saviour.

Christ came in the flesh and dwelt among humans as a human, and died as a human and was resurrected as a human.

1Co 15:12-21 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? (13) But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. (14) And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. (15) Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. (16) For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. (17) And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! (18) Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. (19) If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. (20) But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. (21) For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
 
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Taken

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Do you believe God IS a Spirit? Yes
Do you believe God IS Created? No
Do you believe a HUMAN IS a Spirit? No
Do you believe a HUMAN IS Created?Yes

Cutting to the chase, I believe these 19 verses of the Bible, (see highlights)

If Jesus didn't physically die as a human then no plenary and perpetual sacrifice for sin has been made and none are saved.

If Jesus wasn't physically resurrected as a human then no victory over death has been achieved and none of us will be resurrected to eternal life in Christ.

Praise God that Jesus did physically die as a human and was physically resurrected as a human.[/COLOR][/B]

Thank you for making MY POINT, that which “IS” grounded “IN” the Word of. God…
which you said I did not understand !

God IS Spirit.
Created angels ARE spirits.
Humans ARE NOT spirits.
Humans HAVE a spirit.

Spirits CAN appear AS a human.
Humans can NOT appear AS a spirit.

Human EYES can NOT SEE spirits.
Human EYES CAN SEE spirits who appear AS a human.

When men do not know the difference BETWEEN “IS” and “AS”, and attempt to ARGUE…
God IS Spirit.
Jesus IS God.
And…
Jesus IS a Human.
^ that is nullifying the TRUTH, and a FAIL.

Fact IS, God IS Spirit.
Fact IS, Jesus IS God.
Fact IS, Spirits have the POWER to appear “AS” a human.
Fact IS, A Spirit which appears “AS” a human, does NOT “make” that Spirit, “A” human.
Fact IS, a Spirit which appears “AS” a human,
“IS” called a “MAN”….NOT a HUMAN MAN!

Fact IS, from Ancient history, (Gen 18) SPIRITS have APPEARED to HUMAN MEN, “AS” men, were called MEN (by Humans), YET…the Humans FULLY UNDERSTOOD they were IN the presence of a SPIRIT.

Fact IS, in This day, (Heb 13:2) SPIRITS can and do Appear to Humans “AS” men.

Fact IS, in This day, a Human will NOT know they ARE in the presence of “A” spirit; (Heb 13:2) unless the spirit REVEALS, they ARE a spirit.