Did God Kill Jesus?

[Taken]

Angels often take human form, but that's irrelevant to the incarnation of Christ our Lord and Saviour.

IRRELEVANT? LOL

It is Expressly RELEVANT to arrive at the understanding of the TRUTH!

Human DUST men BEINGS are created out of the substance of the DUST of the Earth, which Gods Hand FORMS them.

Angel SPIRIT men BEINGS are created out of Gods Power, which Gods Word SPEAKS into existence.

The TITLE of God…”I AM”.
The NAME of Gods Word…JESUS
The TITLE of Gods Power…CHRIST
The TITLE of Gods Wisdom…CHRIST
The TITLE of Gods Seed…CHRIST.



The Lord God Almighty IS the Creator, NEVER the Created!

 

[quietthinker]

What has all this yada yada got to do with the topic?.....and by the way, did any of you read the enclosed PDF 'Did God kill Jesus?'

 

[Taken]

[QUOTE @Sigma post #62
“Mary conceived and 9 months later gave birth to a human son, just as you, a human, were conceived and born 9 months later.
[/QUOTE]

Sigma’s understanding.

Scriptural knowledge IS Humans ARE BODY’s that come from the (elements) of Dust of the Earth, and Reproduction of Human BODY’S occurs via CONCEPTION of the WILL of a HUMAN and the OF a Human man, and that SEED fertilizing a Human female Egg…and is then SENT to the females WOMB, (called CONCEIVED (ie pregnant), that fertilized SEED, is nourished and waste departed VIA the females LIFE (ie BLOOD), and THAT BODY is being FORMED, by the Hand of God.

That Human Body’s Estate (Habitat) IS Earth.
That Human Body IS sustained (kept alive), by, it’s Habit’s “Elements”…Minerals, metals, air, water, plants, animals and Reflection of the Great Light…SUN.
* Every Human Body’s LIFE (BLOOD)…SHALL DIE…God Requires the DEATH of Every Human Body’s LIFE (BLOOD).

No…God IS NOT a created HUMAN man.
Yes…Gods Word came forth OUT of Gods MOUTH.
Yes…Gods Word that came forth OUT of Gods mouth, was Gods WORD being BORN OF GOD.
Yes…God Prepared His Word a BODY, in the Likeness AS a human man.
Yes…God SENT His Word’s BODY, to a VIRGIN human woman’s Womb.
Yes…in the SAME FASHION “AS A HUMAN man is born”…According to the Law of Nature that APPLIES to Humans…Gods Word, that was BORN of God, SENT to a human females Virgin womb, remained IN a human females WOMB for 9 months….and was THEN born forth out from that human females virgin womb….IN A BODY God Prepared…
THAT WHICH…
Had NOTHING whatsoever to do with the…
WILL (EFFORT) of a HUMAN or the BLOOD (LIFE) of a HUMAN.

Lord Jesus “IS” a human? No
Lord Jesus “AS” a man? Yes.

Lord Jesus “IS” a human….Carnal Understanding.

Lord Jesus “AS” a man…Spiritual Understanding.

 

[Taken]

What has all this yada yada got to do with the topic?.....and by the way, did any of you read the enclosed PDF 'Did God kill Jesus?'

All this “yada, yada”… “Killing of Jesus”, is a DIRECT reference to Jesus’ BODILY FLESH.

You jumped in on dialogue between Sigma’s and myself.

You were agreeing with Sigma, who is preaching Jesus “IS” a human.

Yada-ed to me your conclusion I am without understanding….
THEN, you posted your commentary, saying repeatedly…Jesus “AS” a human….which IS precisely the POINT I have said and maintained.

Seemingly you stand in “confusion”, agreeing with Sigma, accusing me of not understanding, while you are expressly agreeing with what I have said and maintained….”AS”…not “IS”.
Oh, oh, what to do now….uh, uh, IGNORE “your confusion” and repeat the Thread title…

Your “confusion” is noted.

God IS Spirit.
Gods Word IS Spirit.
Gods Word came forth out from Gods Mouth.
God Prepared a BODY of flesh and blood for His Word.
God Sent His Word (in the Body God Prepared) to A Human Woman’s Womb.
That Prepared BODY was EXPRESSLY Sent To Earth In the LIKENESS AS a man FOR Human men OF the WORLD to SEE, HEAR, LEARN,
and DIE, for the LIFE (human LIFE) of the world (Earth)….

Did GOD KILL HIS Word, Jesus? No.
Did GOD SEND HIS Word to this World / Earth and ALLOW Human men TO KILL the Body God Prepared?
YES!

God SENT His Word Jesus, FOR the WEAK, IGNORANT, CORRUPT, ARROGANT, human men “OF” Gods own Chosen People, “ISRAEL” … TO KILL Gods Word JESUS.

AND…gee, what a Surprise to God….eh?
WEAK, IGNORANT, CORRUPT, ARROGANT, human men “OF” Gods own Chosen People, ISRAEL…DID exactly that!

(Who instigated? … the corrupt, arrogant…Pharisees and Sanhedrin’s of ISRAEL.

(Who went along with the instigation?…the weak and ignorant Jews, Some Corrupt Gentiles.

(Who opposed? … A single named Sanhedrin, a FEW JEWS “enlightened” to the Truth of WHO Jesus was;
AND the Gentile Governor OVER the Roman Gentiles.

The Knowledge is expressly revealed IN Scripture.
The Spiritual Understanding IS Revealed Via the Spirit of God to the spirit of men that BELIEVE IN the Spirit of God.

 

[MatthewG]

QUESTION…
Do you believe created beings called angels ARE spirits, or ARE humans?

ANSWER…





Do you believe created beings called angels ARE spirits, or ARE humans?

Cutting to the chase…

Do you believe created beings called angels ARE spirits, or ARE humans?

Created beings called angels ARE spirits.

Sometimes the word angels, or angel, just means a human messenger, and sometime it may mean a heavenly being, something God created. The messenger from God Gabrial, showed up in the vision Zachariah had in the temple, and told him about John, who would be coming through Elizabeth.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Prediction does not equal causation.
I can accurately predict you'll be dead in a hundred years. My prediction does not mean I caused your death.

So you are saying that God made a prediction when the three of them got together and counseled and fore ordained (same thing as foreknowledge) Jesus to be delivered to die that it wasn't the first cause?

 

[quietthinker]

So you are saying that God made a prediction when the three of them got together and counseled and fore ordained (same thing as foreknowledge) Jesus to be delivered to die that it wasn't the first cause?

God knew what was going to happen but he came anyway. He knew that 'his own' (John 1:11) would murder him yet he submitted to his executioners .....even spoke to his Father for them. (Luke 23:34)

The night before, Jesus prayed in Gethsemane. You might refresh your memory of this prayer (John 17) It was not a prayer to someone who was about to orchestrate his murder.

You might also check Peter's sermon in Acts 2:22-24 where he tells the crowd who murdered Jesus.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus garden prayer was that the wrath that He was to experience from HIs father

God knew what was going to happen but he came anyway. He knew that 'his own' (John 1:11) would murder him yet he submitted to his executioners .....even spoke to his Father for them. (Luke 23:34)

The night before, Jesus prayed in Gethsemane. You might refresh your memory of this prayer (John 17) It was not a prayer to someone who was about to orchestrate his murder.

You might also check Peter's sermon in Acts 2:22-24 where he tells the crowd who murdered Jesus.

He could forego, but He still submitted to the will of His Father.

As for acts:

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

The Father delivered Jesus over to the hands of the wicked. Once again men were the tools God used to sacrifice His Passover Lamb. If god had not delivered Jesus over to them- would He have even died at their hands? none of us know because it was the plan of god from eternity past that Jesus would die.

 

[quietthinker]

The Father delivered Jesus over to the hands of the wicked. Once again men were the tools God used to sacrifice His Passover Lamb. If god had not delivered Jesus over to them- would He have even died at their hands? none of us know because it was the plan of god from eternity past that Jesus would die.

When one loves, one become vulnerable to exploitation. God gave men free choice and that free choice was used to kill Jesus. God allowed it because he 'honoured' mens ability and right to choose just as he allows men to slaughter and drop bombs on each other. God does not orchestrate it.

God does not need blood or sacrifice to forgive anymore than a parent requires it of their child before they forgive. Men and the influence of evil angels have so manoeuvred God's unspeakable gift to make it appear he behaves like the heathen gods

 

[MatthewG]

God never poured his wrath out his son. Its implausible. Why was God angry with Jesus? He never was. It is a common taught tradition that is a lie.

 

[Sigma]

Do you believe God IS a Spirit? Yes
Do you believe God IS Created? No
Do you believe a HUMAN IS a Spirit? No
Do you believe a HUMAN IS Created?Yes





Thank you for making MY POINT, that which “IS” grounded “IN” the Word of. God…
which you said I did not understand !

God IS Spirit.
Created angels ARE spirits.
Humans ARE NOT spirits.
Humans HAVE a spirit.

Spirits CAN appear AS a human.
Humans can NOT appear AS a spirit.

Human EYES can NOT SEE spirits.
Human EYES CAN SEE spirits who appear AS a human.

When men do not know the difference BETWEEN “IS” and “AS”, and attempt to ARGUE…
God IS Spirit.
Jesus IS God.
And…
Jesus IS a Human.
^ that is nullifying the TRUTH, and a FAIL.

Fact IS, God IS Spirit.
Fact IS, Jesus IS God.
Fact IS, Spirits have the POWER to appear “AS” a human.
Fact IS, A Spirit which appears “AS” a human, does NOT “make” that Spirit, “A” human.
Fact IS, a Spirit which appears “AS” a human,
“IS” called a “MAN”….NOT a HUMAN MAN!

Fact IS, from Ancient history, (Gen 18) SPIRITS have APPEARED to HUMAN MEN, “AS” men, were called MEN (by Humans), YET…the Humans FULLY UNDERSTOOD they were IN the presence of a SPIRIT.

Fact IS, in This day, (Heb 13:2) SPIRITS can and do Appear to Humans “AS” men.

Fact IS, in This day, a Human will NOT know they ARE in the presence of “A” spirit; (Heb 13:2) unless the spirit REVEALS, they ARE a spirit.

You can share your interpretations of scriptural verses all you like, but a language is not a interpretation, and in the original language Koine Greek in Jn. 1:1 it says "God is the Word," then in Jn. 1:14 it says "the Word became "σάρξ" (meaning flesh, human)," and thus God incarnated Himself by becoming human (Jesus). Myself and others have shown you multiple other places in Scripture that testify to God's human incarnation. Therefore, your interpretations of scriptural verses that you claim supports your belief Jesus was not human are just wrong.

 

[Taken]

You can share your interpretations of scriptural verses all you like, but a language is not a interpretation, and in the original language Koine Greek in Jn. 1:1 it says "God is the Word," then in Jn. 1:14 it says "the Word became "σάρξ" (meaning flesh, human)," and thus God incarnated Himself by becoming human (Jesus). Myself and others have shown you multiple other places in Scripture that testify to God's human incarnation. Therefore, your interpretations of scriptural verses that you claim supports your belief Jesus was not human are just wrong.

It is of no consequence to me that your teaching and understanding Favors Gentile (Greek) teaching.

Personally I Favor Gods Teaching, that God sent His Word forth out of His mouth in the LIKENESS “AS” a Jewish man, in a BODY of Flesh and Blood God Prepared in the LIKENESS “AS” a man and DECLARED:
“THAT” man, (having been SENT forth OUT FROM God, would be CALLED…Gods SON…
“THAT” God in Heaven “WOULD BE” a Father to Him.
“THAT” “THAT” man “WOULD BE” a Son to God the Father.

And ya should da learned, God CAN NOT Physically REPRODUCE an offspring that has no beginning.

Ya should da learned, That which CAME FORTH OUT FROM GOD….IS God, called BORN OF God, because He came forth OUT from God…and THUS IS God…and God IS Spirit, Regardless of the Body of Flesh and Blood God prepared FOR HIM so little created creatures called humans COULD SEE Him!

Ya think … Bruce Jenner is a WOMAN, because a surgeon prepared him a body in the LIKENESS “AS” a female, and Bruce changed his name, calls himself a female, and other men call him a female because “he” LOOkS LIKE A FEMALE”. ?

Gods IS SPIRIT, regardless of WHAT He chooses to APPEAR in the LIKENESS thereof, and regardless of WHAT “human men” can see.

Ya think when a when a person dons a Gorilla suit, a Ghost suit, a Tiger suit, and walk about swinging and waving their arms, crawling on their hands and feet, making grunting, whoooo, growling noises….WHAT YOU SEE and HEAR IS…..they “ARE” a gorilla, a ghost, a tiger? LOL.

Men Calling what they SEE is one thing.
Men Knowing what they CAN NOT SEE is another thing.

Men Called Jesus A MAN.
Men did, and some today KNOW Jesus IS the Word of God, who APPEARED in the LIKENESS AS A MAN, Yet IS Spirit, IS God.

And then there are men (LIKE YOU), who do not called Jesus A man….but EXPRESSLY Change the meaning to A SPECIFIC “KIND” of man:
A CREATED man.
A CREATED man OF DUST.
A CREATED man OF DUST, which ONLY applies to the TERM…HUMAN.
A CREATED HUMAN man of DUST, out of the DUST and RETURNS to DUST.

OOPS….Jesus was NOT created.
Jesus Existed IN Heaven, IN God.
Jesus was SENT forth out from God.
Jesus was SENT forth IN a BODY God PREPARED.
Human mens BODY’S ARE created out of Dust.
Jesus was NOT created out of DUST.
Jesus DID NOT Return to DUST.
Humans mens BODY’S DO return to DUST.

Why DO you FAVOR Created HUMAN mens Greek Gentiles TEACHING over Gods Word?

John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
[28] i came forth from the Father , and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

A HUMAN MAN, (out of DUST) is profane to the UNDERSTANDING of a DIVINE MAN, (out of God).

 

[Ronald Nolette]

When one loves, one become vulnerable to exploitation. God gave men free choice and that free choice was used to kill Jesus. God allowed it because he 'honoured' mens ability and right to choose just as he allows men to slaughter and drop bombs on each other. God does not orchestrate it.

God does not need blood or sacrifice to forgive anymore than a parent requires it of their child before they forgive. Men and the influence of evil angels have so manoeuvred God's unspeakable gift to make it appear he behaves like the heathen gods

Well you may not think blood is necessary, but Gods Word says this:

Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Yes man, though he has no free will,does have free choice.

But unless God delivered Jesus over as Peter spoke, He would have never died.

 

[quietthinker]

Well you may not think blood is necessary, but Gods Word says this:

Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Yes man, though he has no free will,does have free choice.

But unless God delivered Jesus over as Peter spoke, He would have never died.

I'm not sure if it is clear to you why the letter was written to the Hebrews?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I'm not sure if it is clear to you why the letter was written to the Hebrews?

O h I am very clear. If Jesus had not shed His blood, we would not have the forgiveness of our sins.

 

[Sigma]

It is of no consequence to me that your teaching and understanding Favors Gentile (Greek) teaching.

Personally I Favor Gods Teaching...

I favor God's teaching and accuracy of it, and Koine Greek is the original language used for the New Testament. If you reject Scripture in its original language, how convenient after I informed you that in Koine Greek in Jn. 1:1 it says "God is the Word," then in Jn. 1:14 it says "the Word became "σάρξ" (meaning flesh, human)," and thus God incarnated Himself by becoming human (Jesus), which proves your claim Jesus wasn't human to be false.

Anyway, myself and others have also shown you multiple other places in Scripture that testify to God's human incarnation as well . Therefore, your interpretations of scriptural verses that you claim supports your belief Jesus was not human are just wrong.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I accept the word of God in the language of the Spirit.
He is NOT bound to translations, interpretations nor language.
It is through the Spirit's conviction of sin that we come to Christ.
It is by the Spirit that the word is imparted into our hearts by reading, studying & hearing. It is brought to remembrance in time of need by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Sigma]

I accept the word of God in the language of the Spirit.
He is NOT bound to translations, interpretations not language.
It is through the Spirit's conviction of sin that we come to Christ.
It is by the Spirit that the word is imparted into our hearts and brought to remembrance in time of need.

Yet, we have numerous interpretations of scriptural verses, each claiming their interpretation is right, each claiming they're being guided by the Holy Spirit. No, they can't all be right.

There was an original language used for the New Testament: Koine Greek. People need to understand this as well as consider the time in which these things were written, etc. Too many Christians apply a modern understanding to archaic text and circumstances and it's causing problems.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I accept the word of God in the language of the Spirit.
He is NOT bound to translations, interpretations nor language.
It is through the Spirit's conviction of sin that we come to Christ.
It is by the Spirit that the word is imparted into our hearts by reading, studying & hearing. It is brought to remembrance in time of need by the Holy Spirit.

This is very dangerous ground you are treading on with these words.

God created grammar so we can communicate one to another and with God. Words are critical. Maybe your words are not bound by language and we are free to make your words say anything we feel comes from divine source.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

This is very dangerous ground you are treading on with these words.

God created grammar so we can communicate one to another and with God. Words are critical. Maybe your words are not bound by language and we are free to make your words say anything we feel comes from divine source.

Your words are bizarre and laughable in the way you have of reading what ppl say. This is TWICE you have tried to correct my grammar, a third time will NOT happen !

I cannot EVER go wrong following the Spirit of God!

Maybe a few more ought to get OFF their high horses of superiority and learn from and lean into the Spirit.