Amillennialism vs premillennialism ......how & why ppl believe different.

[marks]

Then the purpose for these discussions should be to learn what is true of other positions before assuming they are unbiblical.

Absolutely! Test everything, keeps what is good.

We will not have a fruitful discussion if we can't be talking the same language. There can be a lot to untangle before coming to a real understanding.

Reflective Listening is a discipline where you set aside all response and counter arguments or whatever until you first have verified by repeating back in your own words that you understand what the other person is saying.

How many times have I shot off my mouth without realizing I'm misunderstanding? Hard to say . . . I just try to avoid it.

Much love!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I think the Holy Spirit will never contradict His Word, and so any true understanding will be seeable and proveable from the written Word. Absolutely, pray first, and during, and after, and don't ever stop. And pray before posting, and during, and after.

My POV is that if the Bible doesn't say something is a symbol, you can say it is, but you will not have Biblical authority to say so. Does that mean you are of necessity wrong? Not necessarily, only, that it's not stated as such in the Bible.

Much love!

Agree.
We are still fallible as the humans we are, pressing towards the mark of the prize of the highcalling of God !

 

[marks]

It would be wonderful to have a polite and respectful discussion with all who participate in these threads. Sadly, they tend to turn into heated debates when error of ones doctrine is shown. That's exactly what happened in the thread similar to this one.

Much love to you as well marks!

Let's lead the way to higher discussion, shall we?

:)

Much love!

 

[marks]

Agree.
We are still fallible as the humans we are, pressing towards the mark of the highcalling of God !

With God's intent that out of our love for each other, we do what we can for each other to help them fulfill that high calling.

Much love!

 

[rwb]

Let's lead the way to higher discussion, shall we?

:)

Much love!

We'll see how that goes!

Thank you, much love to you as well.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Let's lead the way to higher discussion, shall we?

:)

Much love!

Change always starts with us!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is not quite correct. Amil doesn't believe God is done with Israel! Quite the contrary in fact. We believe ALL ISRAEL shall be saved. However ALL ISRAEL includes Gentiles who are grafted into the good olive tree of faith with Israelites of faith, so ALL ISRAEL that shall be saved is NOT an ethnic people like Israel of old, but ALL PEOPLE of faith. That means Amil does not believe the Church replaces Israel, rather Amil correctly understands exactly who Israel according to Christ is through Him.

You just proved my point.

Thank you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

By sharing the doctrine of Amillennialism that I believe is the only position regarding biblical eschatology that does not force contradiction into God's Word,

Hence here is the problem.

All of us pretty much can use this same reasoning.

When you think your right and everyone else is wrong. its usually best you not even participate.. (in my view anyway) because all you will do is push your view.. and argue with everyone else.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A good question to ask is what is the purpose of prophecy. Who is it for?

 

[marks]

FWIW we have been living in the end of days of this world since Christ came to earth a man with the spiritual Kingdom of God that is within you.

This brings up another aspect to the discussion, when the same terms are used in very different contexts.

Acts 2:17 KJV
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

This "last days" was fulfilled on Pentecost, shortly after Jesus' ascent to heaven.

Hebrews 1:2 KJV
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

This "last days" is contemporary to the writer.

2 Timothy 3:1 KJV
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

This "last days" is future to the writer.

2 Peter 3:3 KJV
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Again, "last days" future to the writer.

So then we need to understand this distinction.

Are there two, or maybe more, ways to interpret and apply this term "last days"? It seems there is a Last Days that was current to that time, and that there is a Last Days that was future from that time.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

how else would you interpret that this same Jesus will return exactly as he left (in like manner)

How many different interpretations of this passage can there be?

Uhm. I'm not a Preterist so I'd rather not answer on how many there can be, because then I'd be speaking for them.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Uhm. I'm not a Preterist so I'd rather not answer on how many there can be, because then I'd be speaking for them.

Like I said. i will just follow the word.

The word says he will come back..

Anyone who says he will not come back, as the angels said. is not following the word.

 

[rwb]

You just proved my point.

Thank you

How does what I've said prove Amil believes God is finished with Israel? The Gospel is available to ALL people, and even Israel in unbelief can enter the spiritual Kingdom of God by being born again by grace through faith.

 

[Zao is life]

It would be wonderful to have a polite and respectful discussion with all who participate in these threads. Sadly, they tend to turn into heated debates when error of ones doctrine is shown. That's exactly what happened in the thread similar to this one.

Much love to you as well marks!

It's only your opinion that "the error of another's doctrine is shown" when the other person's way of seeing things is different to yours.

Your words you're choosing right now look like you're trying to do here what you did there, because your accusation about "the error of one's doctrines being shown" (ostensibly by you) is false, and is exactly the kind of thing you say that leads to the heated kind of debate that you are now blaming others for.

Grace and peace to you.

Lol. This forum should have a "bless and do not curse" automatic replacement of certain phrases. Some people would have to stop posting here.

 

[Zao is life]

Like I said. i will just follow the word.

The word says he will come back..

Anyone who says he will not come back, as the angels said. is not following the word.

I agree with what you said. But I know not everyone does (believe it or not).

 

[rwb]

Hence here is the problem.

All of us pretty much can use this same reasoning.

When you think your right and everyone else is wrong. its usually best you not even participate.. (in my view anyway) because all you will do is push your view.. and argue with everyone else.

If you have doubts about what you believe is biblical truth, then I agree, it would be better not to participate. What is wrong with arguing for what you believe is true? I see Christ arguing for truth and against the doctrine of the Scribes and Pharisees, and I see Paul also arguing for truth and against what he calls false doctrine.

 

[Zao is life]

Yeah see, I do not believe there is a secret rapture to steal away the faithful from the wrath of satan.

There will be a second coming of Christ Jesus to gather his saints from the four corners of the Earth at the last trump, AFTER the tribulation of those days, poured upon the saints whom would not bow to him and take his mark !

The above is what I believe too. But I want to refrain from offering specific opinions on specific prophetic texts, lol.

 

[rwb]

This brings up another aspect to the discussion, when the same terms are used in very different contexts.

Acts 2:17 KJV
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

This "last days" was fulfilled on Pentecost, shortly after Jesus' ascent to heaven.

Hebrews 1:2 KJV
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

This "last days" is contemporary to the writer.

2 Timothy 3:1 KJV
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

This "last days" is future to the writer.

2 Peter 3:3 KJV
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Again, "last days" future to the writer.

So then we need to understand this distinction.

Are there two, or maybe more, ways to interpret and apply this term "last days"? It seems there is a Last Days that was current to that time, and that there is a Last Days that was future from that time.

Much love!

I believe that "last days" is the same time that began to be fulfilled with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, and will not be finished until the seventh trumpet begins to sound. It's the beginning of the fulfillment of the Prophet Joel, who says "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh". The last days cannot be limited to the first century, because the Spirit of Christ is still be poured out, and much of Joel's prophecy has not yet been fulfilled. Doesn't that stretch the last days to the seventh trumpet sounding that time shall be no longer?

Can you prove through the Scripture that both Timothy and Peter are future last days? Why do you believe the writer to the Hebrews last days is only for his contemporaries?

Much love!

 

[marks]

It's only your opinion that "the error of another's doctrine is shown" when the other person's way of seeing things is different to yours.

Your words you're choosing right now look like you're trying to do here what you did there, because your accusation about "the error of one's doctrines being shown" (ostensibly by you) is false, and is exactly the kind of thing you say that leads to the heated kind of debate that you are now blaming others for.

Grace and peace to you.

Lol. This forum should have a "bless and do not curse" automatic replacement of certain phrases. Some people would have to stop posting here.

Yes, using what I call "loaded language" can trigger negative responses, resulting in poor discussion as it goes on that way.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

A good question to ask is what is the purpose of prophecy. Who is it for?

IMO it's for all the saints, since for example the Revelation is the Revelation of Jesus Christ that God gave Him to give to his churches (Rev.1:1) but whether it's meant to be or not, it's also a test to see where our priorities lie with how we will talk to and treat one another. I have failed too, but at least I know that and seek to correct it between myself and my Savior. IMO prophecy and understanding the full counsel of God is a serious business and we are all fallible but sometimes it seems discussing it is the past-time of some and merely like a hobby.