Is God Moral?

[Augustin56]

Alright, I follow your point and don't disagree except that I'm not certain that it's correct to say that heaven is our goal - per se. I, of course, agree with we have a heavenly calling as members of the Body of Christ but the heavenly destiny is secondary and comes as a result of the primary goal of righteousness.


This is surprisingly close to the correct answer! I don't mean for that to sound condescending but I'm just not accustomed to people getting within a mile of understanding the actual nature of right vs. wrong and so when someone gets this close it sort of surprises me!


What does it mean, in your view, for God to be the source of all goodness and in what way does it keep the meaning of the word "goodness" meaningful when applied to God Himself?


Redundant. One cannot be good and not be moral. If an action is moral in nature then it is either good or bad. If an action is amoral it is neither good nor bad.


So, to put a finer point on the question, is the concept of righteousness defined by whatever it is that God does or is God good because He acts righteously?

What if God were to issue a decree that it was permissible to rape your neighbor's wife on any fifth Thursday of a month (like this coming May 31st for example)? Would that make rape on those days righteous or would such a decree make God evil?

(Some people in the past have freaked out when I've asked such clearly hypothetical questions as though I'm suggesting that God would ever do such thing. The whole point of picking such an obviously evil act is to make it unmistakable that its a purely hypothetical question.)

With regard to your question, "
So, to put a finer point on the question, is the concept of righteousness defined by whatever it is that God does or is God good because He acts righteously?" we must keep in mind that the means are never greater than the end. Righteousness is the quality which adheres to the soul when one does righteous acts. Unrighteousness is the quality which adheres to the soul when one does unrighteous acts (sins). Guilt and innocence as objectively real properties which cling to our souls just like colors cling to the surface of objects. When we sin, we become guilty and our souls grow dark and dirty before God. But when we are justified, God purifies us and our souls become brilliant and clean before him. Guilt and innocence, righteousness and unrighteousness, are therefore rightly conceived of as properties of our souls.

Everything God does is perfect and righteous, because He, Himself, is the source of all love, goodness, truth, beauty, etc. That's why hell is so horrible. Hell is the absence of God, and, therefore, the absense of all love, goodness, truth, beauty, etc.

If morals come from God, which they do, then they are always correct and unchangeable. If morals come from man, as some people wrongly claim, then there are no morals because every individual can claim to have his/her own morals, which can change like one changes clothes.

 

[Nancy]

On an overtly Christian web forum?

WHY?


You seemed to be implying it. If not - great!


God can come down and do whatever He decided He wanted to do.

And you're doing it again. There is no difference between "God coming down as He is" and "God sending His Spirit". Is the Holy Spirit not God Himself? Did the Holy Spirit not come down "as He is"?

Again, this gets sort of thick to walk through because God is, in fact, a Trinity and as such it's hard, if not impossible, to separate One from Another, if you'll allow the phrasing. The point being that it is just as valid to say that God descended upon Mary as it is to say the the Holy Spirit did so. It's the same thing.

Hello Logikos and welcome here!
Yes, Ritajanice is correct. Discussions on the Trinity have temporarily been suspended. There was so much infighting we couldn't kept up with it. It is a temporary ban, and the admins. will be deciding when to re introduce discussion on the Trinity/
God bless and keep you!

 

[Logikos]

Not a debate forum but a general discussion forum !

What are we to "discuss" only those things we agree on?

BORING!

You are ridiculous and you are also now on my ignore list.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your thinking is deficient. You disagree and I'm willing to argue the point. That's why they call this a debate forum. If everyone who thinks your thinking is deficient is going to offend you, you need to find a different hobby.

Its not a debate forum

Its a discussion forum.

that's your first mistake..

Talking down to people. and thinking it is ok. then not listening to people who are trying to correct you in love, is your second.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

New thread posted with my full answer in essay form....

Our Moral God

I will pass.

If after causing all of this tension in this thread. you now want to run and hide.. I will pass.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What are we to "discuss" only those things we agree on?

BORING!

You are ridiculous and you are also now on my ignore list.

see what I mean

You discuss things you even do not agree on..So we all can learn

a debate forum is where you try to debate your truth.

 

[Logikos]

With regard to your question, "
So, to put a finer point on the question, is the concept of righteousness defined by whatever it is that God does or is God good because He acts righteously?" we must keep in mind that the means are never greater than the end. Righteousness is the quality which adheres to the soul when one does righteous acts. Unrighteousness is the quality which adheres to the soul when one does unrighteous acts (sins). Guilt and innocence as objectively real properties which cling to our souls just like colors cling to the surface of objects. When we sin, we become guilty and our souls grow dark and dirty before God. But when we are justified, God purifies us and our souls become brilliant and clean before him. Guilt and innocence, righteousness and unrighteousness, are therefore rightly conceived of as properties of our souls.

Everything God does is perfect and righteous, because He, Himself, is the source of all love, goodness, truth, beauty, etc. That's why hell is so horrible. Hell is the absence of God, and, therefore, the absense of all love, goodness, truth, beauty, etc.

If morals come from God, which they do, then they are always correct and unchangeable. If morals come from man, as some people wrongly claim, then there are no morals because every individual can claim to have his/her own morals, which can change like one changes clothes.

I get your drift here and I know you won't agree with my saying so but you are, in fact, talking in circles.

Part of it is actually my fault because I've intentionally left the question so wide open for interpretation. Which is to say that, from the place your coming from on this question, your answer makes sense. However, it doesn't really succeed in answering the question of whether God Himself is moral.

Intuitively speaking (meaning I could be wrong here) it seems like you should answer the poll with a "No" but whether that's right or not, it would perhaps be very profitable if you'd read my essay over on the other thread and see if that doesn't effect the direction you're going with the discussion.

 

[Logikos]

I will pass.

If after causing all of this tension in this thread. you now want to run and hide.. I will pass.

As if I'd care.

 

[Ritajanice]

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Yay, yay, yay, I made the list too with all the others he thinks are losers.
Probably is 2 Timothy Group, he lived in Tx also!


Yay, yay, ya, I made the list !

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As if I'd care.

I think this has already been proven

You don't care for much of anything, as long as we agree with you, all is well.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yay, yay, yay, I made the list too with all the others he thinks are losers.
Probably is 2 Timothy Group, he lived in Tx also!


Yay, yay, ya, I made the list !

was he a member here?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Its not a debate forum

Its a discussion forum.

that's your first mistake..

Talking down to people. and thinking it is ok. then not listening to people who are trying to correct you in love, is your second.

As I also pointed out.....in post #123. But hey discussion is boooooooring!

 

[RedFan]

Your thinking is deficient. You disagree and I'm willing to argue the point. That's why they call this a debate forum. If everyone who thinks your thinking is deficient is going to offend you, you need to find a different hobby.

After saying about my post "This is the single best post on this entire thread up to this point!" you went on to assume -- incorrectly -- that I answered "no" to the poll, called it "Very disappointing!" and then said "Your instincts are good and so there's hope." Your assumption about my participation in the poll was incorrect, so someone's thinking was deficient.

Perhaps your recognition of my "good instincts" will extend to tolerating my giving you a bit of advice. The reaction of a number of posters on this thread to your words should be cause for some introspection on your part. Civility has its benefits. I'd like to see you appropriate them. You are less likely to be taken seriously if the tenor of your comments remains as it has been on this thread.

 

[quietthinker]

I had expected more from you all. Inflated ego's create a sad intermission......or is it an ending?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

was he a member here?

At C.C ,several others I'm on, and I think he's listed as a member here under that name as well but a mod could better verify.
Don't you remember him EG. Me, you ,Dan and a few here met him @ cc.

 

[Logikos]

I think this has already been proven

You don't care for much of anything, as long as we agree with you, all is well.

Care to provide even one piece of evidence for this accusation?

I've done precisely nothing but asked a single question and responded directly to whatever someone said about it.

This is without a doubt the most hostile group of Christians I have ever encountered in my entire life. You people just cannot keep from being offended! I'd be scared to find out what would happen to you if I actually insulted any of you. My God, you'd collapse and have a conniption!

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Its not a debate forum

Its a discussion forum.

that's your first mistake..

Talking down to people. and thinking it is ok. then not listening to people who are trying to correct you in love, is your second.

While I agree with your comments in general, I have never been on a forum that did not have spirited debates
somewhere along the way.

And BTW... the count now is 2

 

[Logikos]

was he a member here?

I'm a member of precisely two other debate forums and only one of those for any length of time. Neither of which had anything called a "2 Timothy Group", by the way.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

At C.C ,several others I'm on, and I think he's listed as a member here under that name as well but a mod could better verify.
Don't you remember him EG. Me, you ,Dan and a few here met him @ cc.

Name does not ring a bell.. But I am sure you are right.. My short term memory is not what it once was..lol