Peter the Rock?

[ScottA]

I don't understand your privately select apostles to their own choosing statement.

Are you aware of the Catholic church ever selecting a leader from outside the Catholic church? Is that even a practice...or is it rather not the practice? Is that the case or not?

In other words, the Holy Spirit (and the spiritual gifts including leadership) being poured out at Pentecost was upon those of many nations and tongues, not just Catholics. Thus, selecting from anything less than the full scope of the Holy Spirit, makes the Catholic church guilty of practicing in "private interpretation."

 

[BreadOfLife]

No. Preaching by the apostles by the Holy Spirit came later. What occurred at Pentecost was general, not specific to the apostles, but general to those of many nations and tongues. Which gave clear understanding of things that "others" could not understand, not by the apostles, but to the apostles as well as many who were not among the eleven.

WRONG.
Preaching by the Apostles by the Holy Spirit BEGAN on Pentecost.

And it is that premise--as it is written, which establishes no exclusivity to the Catholic church, but rather by the selection of the Holy Spirit and Jesus who sent Him.

They were the Catholic Church - not some other entity or "denomiation".

I declare it.

Yes - unfortunately YOU declare a lot of things that aren't true.

 

[Truthnightmare]

WRONG.
Preaching by the Apostles by the Holy Spirit BEGAN on Pentecost.

They were the Catholic Church - not some other entity or "denomiation".

Yes - unfortunately YOU declare a lot of things that aren't true.

What scriptures do you believe confirm the above?

 

[BreadOfLife]

And this they do like Nicodemus, who as a teacher in Israel, did not understand "the ways of Christ."

That's an empty and impotent claim as the very same can bve said yabout YOU . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yawn.

Scripture IS the source to Trust for TESTING, VERIFYING, what one hears regarding Gods Word.

Scripture itself reveals Scriptures Trustworthiness.
2 Tim 3:16.

If you do not TRUST Scripture, why bother EVER “quoting” it?

If you have some other source to verify Scripture….what is that source?

2 Tim 3:
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

And yet, NOWHERE does the Bible state that it is our "SOLE" Authority.

And NOWHERE have I claimed that Scripture is NOT Authoritative.
The Bible, however, tells us that the CHURCH is out final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-24) . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Protestant IS a Branch of Christianity, with
Tens of thousands of Protestant’s calling their churches by whatever name they want…
each church establishes their own rules.
Individuals believe God is their Holy Father and Christ Jesus is their advocate.
Does the Scripture mention Protestant? Nope.
Does Scripture mention God is the Holy Father?
Yes
Does Scripture mention Christ Jesus is a mans advocate?
Yes

It certainly is - a d NOBODY has claimed that Protestants aren't Christians.
They just don't possess the FULLNESS of the faith.

That can only be founc in Chrisr's pilgrim Church.

Is no different than Catholic IS a Branch of Christianity., with Tens of thousands Catholic’s calling their churches by whatever name they want…
Each church establishes their own rules.
Individuals believe the pope is their holy father and Mary is the mother of God and advocate.

Does Scripture mention Catholic?
Nope.

Wanna bet?

Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας

The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"ekklesia Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Does scripture mention “human men” are a “holy father”?
Nope.
Does scripture mention Mary is the mother of God?
Nope.
Does scripture mention Mary is an advocate?
Nope.

What material are you getting such information?

WRONG.

Scipture tells us that Jesus is GOD (Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Matt. 4:7, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Titus 2:1).

Scripture also tells us that Mary is His MOTHER (John 19:26-27, Luke 1:31, Acts 1:14, John 2:3-5,John 19:25).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Those verses do not address the fact that interpretation by context includes all of scripture.

Anf yet, no matter how you try to twust it - Sola Scriptura is simply NOT supported by the very Scriptures it purports to be our "SOLE" Authority . . .

Yes, we are talking about interpretation, which in the case of Catholics is "private interpretation", as they presume to limit the gifts of the Holy Spirit to their own private group.

The fact that you may all agree on one "private interpretation"--is collusion...which, indeed, many other denominations are also guilty of.

WRONG.

Private interpretation is individual interpretation, such as you would find in every non-Catholic sect that began with the opinions of a single man.

The coeporate interpretations of the Church are anything but "private".

 

[BreadOfLife]

What scriptures do you believe confirm the above?

Are you serious??

Read Acts 2:1-41 for a perfect example of this.
The Apostles were FILLED with the Holy Spirit and began to preach in tongues - so much sp, that the people thought they were drunk.

 

[Truthnightmare]

It certainly is - a d NOBODY has claimed that Protestants aren't Christians.
They just don't possess the FULLNESS of the faith.

That can only be founc in Chrisr's pilgrim Church.

Wanna bet?

Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας

The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"ekklesia Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC CHURCH.

WRONG.

Scipture tells us that Jesus is GOD (Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Matt. 4:7, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Titus 2:1).

Scripture also tells us that Mary is His MOTHER (John 19:26-27, Luke 1:31, Acts 1:14, John 2:3-5,John 19:25).

Anf yet, no matter how you try to twust it - Sola Scriptura is simply NOT supported by the very Scriptures it purports to be our "SOLE" Authority . . .

WRONG.

Private interpretation is individual interpretation, such as you would find in every non-Catholic sect that began with the opinions of a single man.

The coeporate interpretations of the Church are anything but "private".

"ekklesia Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC CHURCH.

No it doesn’t…

ekklésia: an assembly, a (religious) congregation
Original Word: ἐκκλησία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: ekklésia
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-klay-see'-ah)
Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation
Usage: an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers

The English word "church" comes from the Greek word kyriakos, "belonging to the Lord" (kyrios). 1577 /ekklēsía ("church") is the root of the terms "ecclesiology" and "ecclesiastical."]

 

[Truthnightmare]

Are you serious??

Read Acts 2:1-41 for a perfect example of this.
The Apostles were FILLED with the Holy Spirit and began to preach in tongues - so much sp, that the people thought they were drunk.

I was referring to your belief that the Catholic Church was the church of the apostles or early followers of Christ.

 

[The Learner]

Are you aware of the Catholic church ever selecting a leader from outside the Catholic church? Is that even a practice...or is it rather not the practice? Is that the case or not?

In other words, the Holy Spirit (and the spiritual gifts including leadership) being poured out at Pentecost was upon those of many nations and tongues, not just Catholics. Thus, selecting from anything less that the full scope of the Holy Spirit, makes the Catholic church guilty of practicing in "private interpretation."

How many denominations were in the early church?

 

[The Learner]

In Acts 9:31, the King James rendering of the plural word churches should actually be the singular church, which describes the universal church, not just local churches. Sometimes the universal church is called the “invisible church”—invisible in the sense of having no street address, GPS coordinates, or physical building and in the sense that only God can see who is truly saved. Of course, the church is never described in Scripture as “invisible,” and, as a city set on a hill, it is surely meant to be visible (Matthew 5:14). Here are more verses that talk about the universal church: 1 Corinthians 12:28; 15:9; Matthew 16:18; Ephesians 1:22-23; Colossians 1:18.

 

[The Learner]

The Church Universal | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org

Our great God has united us to Christ by His Spirit and has given us fellowship with every believer throughout the world. Praying regularly for the church in ot

www.ligonier.org

 

[The Learner]

WRONG.
Preaching by the Apostles by the Holy Spirit BEGAN on Pentecost.

They were the Catholic Church - not some other entity or "denomiation".

Yes - unfortunately YOU declare a lot of things that aren't true.

catholic
1 of 2
adjective
cath·o·lic ˈkath-lik ˈka-thə-
Synonyms of catholic
1
a
capitalized : ROMAN CATHOLIC
Her son goes to a Catholic school.
b
often capitalized : of, relating to, or forming the church universal
c
often capitalized : of, relating to, or forming the ancient undivided Christian church or a church claiming historical continuity from it
2
: COMPREHENSIVE, UNIVERSAL
especially : broad in sympathies, tastes, or interests
a catholic taste in music
catholically
kə-ˈthä-li-k(ə-)lē
adverb
catholicize
kə-ˈthä-lə-ˌsīz
verb
Catholic

2 of 2
noun
Cath·o·lic ˈkath-lik ˈka-thə-
1
: a member of a Catholic church
especially : ROMAN CATHOLIC
2
: a person who belongs to the universal Christian church

Synonyms
Adjective

all-around
all-round
all-purpose
general
general-purpose
unlimited
unqualified
unrestricted
unspecialized

 

[The Learner]

No it doesn’t…

ekklésia: an assembly, a (religious) congregation
Original Word: ἐκκλησία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: ekklésia
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-klay-see'-ah)
Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation
Usage: an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers

The English word "church" comes from the Greek word kyriakos, "belonging to the Lord" (kyrios). 1577 /ekklēsía ("church") is the root of the terms "ecclesiology" and "ecclesiastical."]

Brother Friend, you are quoting verses related to Local Church, NOt the Universal Church, which is what Catholic includes in its meaning.

 

[Taken]

And yet, NOWHERE does the Bible state that it is our "SOLE" Authority.

All scripture is God inspired….really, you need a confirmation that ONLY God is the Supreme authority of His own Knowledge, His own word?

LAME!

And NOWHERE have I claimed that Scripture is NOT Authoritative.

You repetitively ARGUE, AGAINST the Soul Supremacy of Gods OWN inspired Scripture being the ONLY Authoritative word of God and APPROVED of God.

The Bible, however, tells us that the CHURCH is out final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-24) . . .

ANY man or group of men can Start “church”.
ANY man or group of men WHO Start a “church” claiming it is a HOUSE of God, IT IS by establishment claiming to BE ….
IN ACCORDANCE with Gods Word!

ANY man or group of men who “establish” a church….can set the time of Service, the music, seating arrangement, a dress code, an altar design, blah, blah, blah….

NO ONE was given permission to change, make up or add to Gods own Word, what God Himself has Not revealed AND then attribute “THEIR” word, “AS Gods Approved Word”…

Your “church” has a plethora of garb, elaborate adornments and man-made gestures and trinkets …. Historically and Modernly “catholic” men have made-up, and call “catholic” traditions….which were NEVER “traditions” God taught, established, inspired or approved.

Your “church” teaches from books and letters outside of Scripture, attributing them to being as trustworthy as scripture.

QUOTE God teaching Scripture IS NOT SUFFICIENT

 

[Truthnightmare]

Brother Friend, you are quoting verses related to Local Church, NOt the Universal Church, which is what Catholic includes in its meaning.

Is there any such thing as a local church or universal?

I grew up Catholic, and the early Catholics never claimed what is being presented here.

 

[The Learner]

All scripture is God inspired….really, you need a confirmation that ONLY God is the Supreme authority of His own Knowledge, His own word?

LAME!



You repetitively ARGUE, AGAINST the Soul Supremacy of Gods OWN inspired Scripture being the ONLY Authoritative word of God and APPROVED of God.




ANY man or group of men can Start “church”.
ANY man or group of men WHO Start a “church” claiming it is a HOUSE of God, IT IS by establishment claiming to BE ….
IN ACCORDANCE with Gods Word!

ANY man or group of men who “establish” a church….can set the time of Service, the music, seating arrangement, a dress code, an altar design, blah, blah, blah….

NO ONE was given permission to change, make up or add to Gods own Word, what God Himself has Not revealed AND then attribute “THEIR” word, “AS Gods Approved Word”…

Your “church” has a plethora of garb, elaborate adornments and man-made gestures and trinkets …. Historically and Modernly “catholic” men have made-up, and call “catholic” traditions….which were NEVER “traditions” God taught, established, inspired or approved.

Your “church” teaches from books and letters outside of Scripture, attributing them to being as trustworthy as scripture.

QUOTE God teaching Scripture IS NOT SUFFICIENT

problem is individual interpretation. Often no two people agree on meaning of a text.

 

[Truthnightmare]

problem is individual interpretation. Often no two people agree on meaning of a text.

Perhaps that’s just the way it is, the disciples didn’t seem to agree on what Jesus said in many instances. We are all truly a bit dumb.

 

[The Learner]

Is there any such thing as a local church or universal?

I grew up Catholic, and the early Catholics never claimed what is being presented here.

It is further employed to signify the Church Militant of the New Testament. Even in this restricted acceptation, there is some variety in the use of the term. The disciples of a single locality are often referred to in the New Testament as a Church (Revelation 2:18; Romans 16:4; Acts 9:31), and St. Paul even applies the term to disciples belonging to a single household (Romans 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:19, Colossians 4:15; Philemon 1-2). Moreover, it may designate specially those who exercise the office of teaching and ruling the faithful, the Ecclesia Docens (Matthew 18:17), or again the governed as distinguished from their pastors, the Ecclesia Discens (Acts 20:28).
...
local ministry was of Apostolic institution: and, further, that towards the later part of the Apostolic Age
...
The purpose of these writings was to instruct Timothy and Titus regarding the manner in which they were to organize the local Churches.
...
benefactions to the local Church
...
an office in the local Churches, held by a single person, and carrying with it Apostolical authority.
...
the particular local Churches were conscious of an essential principle of solidarity binding all together into a single system.
...

...https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm