John 3 Jesus discussion with Nicodemus

[Ritajanice]

Your wrong on all three parts.

Stop saying I make no sense. you say this to everyone who disagrees with you. it is petty and old..

You make no spiritual sense my opinion..it has nothing to do with others not agreeing with me.

We’re just on very different levels of Spiritual understanding that is all.

And NO...I’m not wrong on all three parts.

We need God given faith to follow and understand the “ Living “ word of God.

Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed.

 

[Red Baker]

Yes. We have faith first. THEN we are born again

This is not correct~If one is born again first, then, and then only, they can have faith by hearing the word of God, for faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God is not the means of the new birth, but the means of bring to light life! Consider:

2nd Timothy 1:9,10~"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:"

The gospel does not give life, it brings to light, where God has freely given spiritual life this is proven by the preaching of Jesus Christ...only those regenerated have the power to believe and love what is being preached/taught.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Well, dear friend, faith does come before understanding that goes with saying~yet, life comes before one could even have the power to believe. Let me break this verse down even more.

Jone 5:1a Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: .....​

Whosoever believeth~With much emphasis in this chapter on the identity of Jesus, our faith is a gift from God. See also Philippians 1:28,29

The universe exists for this great drama, but most men reject it, neglect it, or miss it. God chose to display Himself to the universe through His Son to save all His elect. Most men do not know why they exist, what to do with life, or how to worship God. Without faith, God’s gift to His sons, we would believe the world’s destructive lies. All men should believe, but only those born of God will believe, condemning all men. The condemnation is great, for the wrath of God will remain upon them (John 3:18,36). The Jews adored their scriptures, missing the clear testimony of Christ (John 5:39-40). We must thank God always for choosing us to believe truth unlike others (2nd Thessalonians 2:13). Jesus the Son of God will come to destroy all enemies (2nd Thessalonians 1:7-10; Acts 17:30-31).

That Jesus is the Christ~We met with this fact about Jesus Christ the Son of God in the first verses (Ist John 1:1-3). We met with this fact about Jesus the Christ earlier against many antichrists (Ist John 2:22). Jesus is the personal name of the Son of God given by angelic direction to both parents. The Christ is the anointed Messiah of God promised throughout the Old Testament. The rejection of this fact was primarily a Jewish error denying their own scriptures.

Jesus is the Christ = Jesus of Nazareth, Son of Mary, is God’s chosen Messiah and Son. The record given in the Bible is what we know and believe by faith (Matt 1:16-25). English Christ is from the Greek Christos, from Hebrew Messiah (John 1:41; 4:25). The Messiah, or Christ, was known as Son of David and Son of God (Matt 16:16). Thus, if you believe Jesus of Nazareth is God’s anointed Son, you have proof by faith. Most do not believe, and there is little value trying to tell them of it (2nd Thessalonians 3:1-2). Repentance to accept truth – or the creation of faith – is God’s gift (2nd Timothy 2:24-26). It is God’s elective choice that any have faith to believe (Ist Corinthains 1:18-31; James 2:5).

Is born of God~Born of God = regeneration = quickened = a new nature (new man) by the Spirit to be sons vitally. This same apostle made it very clear the sovereign power involved (John 1:12-13; 3:1-8).

Faith to believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, is proof a man is already born again. Consider:

He that believeth [present tense; active voice] is born of God [perfect tense; passive]. Perfect tense is action completed [perfected] in the past and still true in the present.

We prove this priority of action by John’s previous points (Ist John 4:7 cp Ist John 3:14). Consider John’s other examples proving regeneration is before faith (Ist John 4:15).

Unless a man is born again, he cannot see God’s kingdom, let alone its King (John 3:3)~which we trust we proved above.

Being born again is God’s work, without human efforts, for us to believe (John 1:12). God’s work of grace in causing the new birth is like the sovereign wind (John 3:8).

He that is of God – already born of God – can hear and understand (John 8:43-45,47). The sheep of Christ will believe – they do not believe to become sheep (John 10:26). Only those already saved are able and willing to believe on Jesus (Ist Corinthians 1:18,24). The gospel is hid from others, for they are lost and blinded by Satan (2nd Corinthians 4:3-4). So, faith is the evidence of eternal life and God’s gift (1st Corinthians 2:14-17; 2nd Thessalonians 3:1-2).

"Faith to believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, is proof a man is already born again. "

Funny that. Funny because as I relive my earliest memories of my life. (I have one at 2 years of age) ... (No not of Jesus or God but it is my earliest memory) and then as I progressed through childhood it was impressed on me at a very early age that Christ Jesus is the Son of God and I never doubted . Never. My parents would never lie to me. ...Then when I went through communicants class and about the age of 12 or so and was sitting in the church with the other classmates and we were asked DO we believe that Jesus was the Son of God... yada yada.... and we all said yes.... I had known this and this was the full confirmation that it was true... to me.... as the understanding was planted as a seed in my mind to grow.

I say this last because it was not until I am nearly gone from this earth that I ever had that true light bulb moment ... it was a slow drawing to full understanding by God and I do not mean in a sacrilegious way at all but almost as a seduction of sorts.... But at all time I knew... (As one televangelist would say.... I knew, my knew knew... meaning so thoroughly entrenched within my being there simply was no doubt

So I was already born again when I first believed....? I never lost that belief. And by rights our heavenly father should have disowned me a very long time ago.... but he didn't. He worked with me and in me....

Funny all those who still will claim I am not. I would love to say a pox on them all but will withhold the temptation..... and you, my friend and brother, know exactly who "they" are.

 

[Red Baker]

We’re just on very different levels of Spiritual understanding that is all.

This is true.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Ritajanice said:
That’s your understanding of God’s word.

Where in the Bible does Gods word say Lambs are less than 12 months old.

Rita.... Does this count??????

From Exodus. The second book of the Holy Bible. Witten by (allegedly) Moses. King James version as I would guess you only will read that one?

Exodus 12:5

Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year. You may take it from the sheep or from the goats.

 

[Ritajanice]

This is true.

There is nothing wrong in that .... spiritual growth comes from God .....and can take years to understand...I’m actually starting to understand your posts Brother...they do make a lot of spiritual sense, so thanks for that.

Like I learnt about the lambs that was a fascinating read and I certainly understood it.

 

[Ritajanice]

Rita.... Does this count??????

From Exodus. The second book of the Holy Bible. Witten by (allegedly) Moses. King James version as I would guess you only will read that one?

Exodus 12:5

Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year. You may take it from the sheep or from the goats.

Yes, thank you for posting....were always learning in the Spirit as long as we don’t let pride get in the way....which is of the old mindset imo...we miss out if we don’t listen to what others have to say.....I have done that..not now.....Love you all,xoxo

 

[Red Baker]

John 3:11,12~"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"

So many double verily in John's gospel that we do well to consider them carefully~ Jesus used them in teaching knowing that what he was about to say, was not understood by many not even among his own disciples until later on in the Acts of the apostles ~so when is was about to open up a doctrine that was important to know, and knowing just how slow of heart men are by nature ~ Christ started out with verily, verily.....though you Nicodemus are in darkness concerning this blessed truth that one must be born again before he can see, and understand, I speak that which I know to be the truth, and not only know this to be the truth, but have seen this both in the scriptures and have witness the same in dealing with men still in the flesh! John 2:25.

Nicodemus was very slow of heart in receiving this truth, even though he gave evidence of being born of the Spirit of God, this truth was very slow sinking down into his heart where he could understand properly what was being taught. We see the same today, and even have seen it in our own life during our walk of faith that begun in my mid twenties 50 years ago, it is part of our fallen nature ( the body of sin and death ) to struggle with understanding such wonderful truths that the word of God contains.

The doctrine of the necessity of regeneration before one can see and understand spiritual truth, even though heavenly in nature, Jesus delivered this truth in a plain and easy style, and illustrated by similes taken from earthly things, as from human birth, from the water, and from the wind: to present it to Nicodemus.

If this truth was not believed and received ( if one receives it then that proves they believe the same ) then there were harder truths that could only be spoken without using earthly teachings to illustrate it truth~such as the next verse reveals.

John 3:13~"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

Here is a true heavenly doctrine! Even though Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus, he was also in heaven as God, the everlasting father of all things! A verse that supports the complex nature of the Son of God~fully man, fully God! On earth, yet in heaven at the same time! This doctrine so much harder to grasp a hold of and very few do.

We will keep going until verse 36 where this discourse stops. Later....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is not correct~If one is born again first, then, and then only, they can have faith by hearing the word of God, for faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Again, this would make us alive while still unjustified. meaning alive in sin.

Read the word

Faith comes by HEARING and Hearing by the WORD.

No mention of being born again first.

The word of God is not the means of the new birth, but the means of bring to light life! Consider:

Jesus said it is the spirit gives life. the words he speaks are spirit and life.

He told us to eat these words. which are the bread of life..

The gospel does not give life, it brings to light, where God has freely given spiritual life this is proven by the preaching of Jesus Christ...only those regenerated have the power to believe and love what is being preached/taught.

This can not be true. God's justice will not allow a person to be regenerated and made alive while still dead in sin.

Justification MUST precede salvation

 

[Red Baker]

Again, this would make us alive while still unjustified. meaning alive in sin.

Eternally Grateful I'm sure you~but you need to be converted practically speaking to be more perfectly sound in the scriptures. You are all over the place like children, with no sense of direction of knowing what you are saying.

Again, this would make us alive while still unjustified. meaning alive in sin.

My brother, one needs to be made alive in Christ vitally speaking first before they have the ability to have knowledge that they have been freely justified by the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ ~ the very purpose as to why John wrote his gospel under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Please consider John's words carefully:

John 20:31~"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."

The word of God was written to those who had obtained like precious faith~no part of the scriptures were written especially for the ungodly, other than revealing to us of their final destruction in the lake of fire, which is the second death.

These things are written, that we might believe that Jesus is the Christ~God has chosen the written word of God to communicate to us of many and exceedingly precious promises that he had purpose to do for us through Jesus Christ~without which we would have no knowledge of any truths including of God Himself.

"that believing ye might have life through his name"~The sense of those words are...By believing we might have the knowledge of life through the name of Jesus Christ. Every man's knowledge will be different base on his own laboring in the scriptures and believing what he is reading, hearing preached etc., etc.

There have many many folks who have spiritual life freely given to them, who do not have the knowledge of that life, and how they came to have eternal life that will inherit eternal life in the world to come.

Examples are a few, but the numbers are millions: feebleminded folks of this world who are incapable of reading, or even learning, many of them will inherit eternal life if chosen in Christ by the grace of God.

Many heathens who have never once heard the word of God preach, some of them will inherit eternal life, if Christ died for them and their names are written in heaven by the grace of God.

Many infants who died having never been able to know their right hand from their left hand will inherit eternal life, if chosen by God and their names are written in heaven. The age of accountability is not taught in the word of God, the way many believe. We all were accountable in Adam and placed in him~In Adam all sinned and fell under the condemnation of God's law which is death.

The word of God, and faith in His word give us knowledge of many wonderful truths, that no man could have ever known apart from God giving his word to us~thank you blessed God in heaven for you word that you have preserved for us to that he can know thee and have fellowship with you through believing your word.

Read the word

Brother, I have many, many times over for fifty some years now since my mid twenties.

Faith comes by HEARING and Hearing by the WORD.

Amen~yet before one can have faith, God must first quicken a man, so that he can hear, believe and live a life of faith~impossible for those in the flesh to do, one must first be in the Spirit, or, spiritual minded, or have the mind of Jesus Christ all one and the same. Consider:

Romans 8:3-9~For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

God must regenerate us first, before we can please him~men in the flesh cannot please God and of course cannot believe apart from God showing his mighty power first toward them. This is not that deep, all it takes is for one to be of faith and believe what they are reading without coming to the scriptures with their own agenda to push and protect.

Enough said for now.

 

[Red Baker]

This can not be true. God's justice will not allow a person to be regenerated and made alive while still dead in sin.

Brother, God's justice was completely satisfied IN CHRIST'S life of perfect obedience~ We have been in Christ from all eternity, ( Ephesians 1:4 ) God has never view us outside of Christ legally speaking, never, not once.

Do we need to go into this in depth? I can, no problem. I would do so, if I knew a person was in all sincerity seeking for the truth.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Eternally Grateful I'm sure you~but you need to be converted practically speaking to be more perfectly sound in the scriptures. You are all over the place like children, with no sense of direction of knowing what you are saying.


My brother, one needs to be made alive in Christ vitally speaking first before they have the ability to have knowledge that they have been freely justified by the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ ~ the very purpose as to why John wrote his gospel under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Please consider John's words carefully:

The word of God was written to those who had obtained like precious faith~no part of the scriptures And should God not tap these feeble minded folks, then they shall be damned.... So Johnnie C. says.were written especially for the ungodly, other than revealing to us of their final destruction in the lake of fire which is the second death.

These things are written, that we might believe that Jesus is the Christ~God has chosen the written word of God to communicate to us of many and exceedingly precious promises that he had purpose to do for us through Jesus Christ~without which we would have no knowledge of any truths including of God Himself.

"that believing ye might have life through his name"~The sense of those words are...By believing we might have the knowledge of life through the name of Jesus Christ. Every man's knowledge will be different base on his own laboring in the scriptures and believing what he is reading, hearing preached etc., etc.

There have many many folks who have spiritual life freely given to them, who do not have the knowledge of that life, and how they came to have eternal life that will inherit eternal life in the world to come.

Examples are a few, but the numbers are millions: feebleminded folks of this world who are incapable of reading, or even learning, many of them will inherit eternal life

IF
And should God not tap these feeble minded folks, then they shall be damned.... So Johnnie C. says.
With their final destruction in the lake of fire.

if chosen in Christ by the grace of God.

Many heathens who have never once heard the word of God preach, some of them will inherit eternal life, if Christ died for them and their names are written in heaven by the grace of God.

IF
And should God not tap these heathens, then they shall be damned.... So Johnnie C. says.
With their final destruction in the lake of fire

Many infants who died having never been able to know their right hand from their left hand will inherit eternal life, if chosen by God and their names are written in heaven.

IF
And should God not tap these infants, then they shall also be damned.... So Johnnie C. says.
With their final destruction in the lake of fire.

You know. I could accept this predestination thing IF those that were not chosen could be tapped and just disappear. People who know not, Babies that no not and Heathens that never had the chance to know must suffer before their end.... and not one single one of them
ever asked to be born.

There is something so inherently wrong with this... it breaks my heart

The age of accountability is not taught in the word of God, the way many believe. We all were accountable in Adam and placed in him~In Adam all sinned and fell under the condemnation of God's law which is death.

The word of God, and faith in His word give us knowledge of many wonderful truths, that no man could have ever known apart from God giving his word to us~thank you blessed God in heaven for you word that you have preserved for us to that he can know thee and have fellowship with you through believing your word.


Brother, I have many, many times over for fifty some years now since my mid twenties.

Amen~yet before one can have faith, God must first quicken a man, so that he can hear, believe and live a life of faith~impossible for those in the flesh to do, one must first be in the Spirit, or, spiritual minded, or have the mind of Jesus Christ all one and the same. Consider:


God must regenerate us first, before we can please him~men in the flesh cannot please God and of course cannot believe apart from God showing his mighty power first toward them. This is not that deep, all it takes is for one to be of faith and believe what they are reading without coming to the scriptures with their own agenda to push and protect.

Enough said for now.

 

[Red Baker]

IF
And should God not tap these feeble minded folks, then they shall be damned.... So Johnnie C. says.
With their final destruction in the lake of fire.

IF
And should God not tap these heathens, then they shall be damned.... So Johnnie C. says.
With their final destruction in the lake of fire

IF
And should God not tap these infants, then they shall also be damned.... So Johnnie C. says.
With their final destruction in the lake of fire.

You know. I could accept this predestination thing IF those that were not chosen could be tapped and just disappear. People who know not, Babies that no not and Heathens that never had the chance to know must suffer before their end.... and not one single one of them
ever asked to be born.

There is something so inherently wrong with this... it breaks my heart

Some secret acts of God are not revealed to us~

Deuteronomy 29:29​

“The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.”

What we do see and know we can speak, but some things are hidden from us. I can with Abraham say:

Genesis 18:25​

“That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

Yes he will, and I'll leave it there, and trust things I cannot explain because it is hidden from us.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Some secret acts of God are not revealed to us~


What we do see and know we can speak, but some things are hidden from us. I can with Abraham say:


Yes he will, and I'll leave it there, and trust things I cannot explain because it is hidden from us.

Okay... I agree.

I just worry for those who beyond their control may have a less then desirable outcome.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Eternally Grateful I'm sure you~but you need to be converted practically speaking to be more perfectly sound in the scriptures. You are all over the place like children, with no sense of direction of knowing what you are saying.

what kind of argument is this? My words have been the same

We are justified first. And because we have been freed from the penalty of sin, we are born again

Its basic math

My brother, one needs to be made alive in Christ vitally speaking first before they have the ability to have knowledge that they have been freely justified by the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ ~ the very purpose as to why John wrote his gospel under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Please consider John's words carefully:

Calvinistic nonsense.

The word of God was written to those who had obtained like precious faith~no part of the scriptures were written especially for the ungodly, other than revealing to us of their final destruction in the lake of fire, which is the second death.

These things are written, that we might believe that Jesus is the Christ~God has chosen the written word of God to communicate to us of many and exceedingly precious promises that he had purpose to do for us through Jesus Christ~without which we would have no knowledge of any truths including of God Himself.

"that believing ye might have life through his name"~The sense of those words are...By believing we might have the knowledge of life through the name of Jesus Christ. Every man's knowledge will be different base on his own laboring in the scriptures and believing what he is reading, hearing preached etc., etc.

There have many many folks who have spiritual life freely given to them, who do not have the knowledge of that life, and how they came to have eternal life that will inherit eternal life in the world to come.

Examples are a few, but the numbers are millions: feebleminded folks of this world who are incapable of reading, or even learning, many of them will inherit eternal life if chosen in Christ by the grace of God.

Many heathens who have never once heard the word of God preach, some of them will inherit eternal life, if Christ died for them and their names are written in heaven by the grace of God.

Many infants who died having never been able to know their right hand from their left hand will inherit eternal life, if chosen by God and their names are written in heaven. The age of accountability is not taught in the word of God, the way many believe. We all were accountable in Adam and placed in him~In Adam all sinned and fell under the condemnation of God's law which is death.

The word of God, and faith in His word give us knowledge of many wonderful truths, that no man could have ever known apart from God giving his word to us~thank you blessed God in heaven for you word that you have preserved for us to that he can know thee and have fellowship with you through believing your word.


Brother, I have many, many times over for fifty some years now since my mid twenties.

Amen~yet before one can have faith, God must first quicken a man, so that he can hear, believe and live a life of faith~impossible for those in the flesh to do, one must first be in the Spirit, or, spiritual minded, or have the mind of Jesus Christ all one and the same. Consider:


God must regenerate us first, before we can please him~men in the flesh cannot please God and of course cannot believe apart from God showing his mighty power first toward them. This is not that deep, all it takes is for one to be of faith and believe what they are reading without coming to the scriptures with their own agenda to push and protect.

Enough said for now.

Jesus told us how to be born again

Like the serpent was raise on the pole..

Learn that story, you will see what it teaches concerning our new birth

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Brother, God's justice was completely satisfied IN CHRIST'S life of perfect obedience~ We have been in Christ from all eternity, ( Ephesians 1:4 ) God has never view us outside of Christ legally speaking, never, not once.

yes it was satisfied.

but God will not force it on you.. nor will he keep it from you.

Do we need to go into this in depth? I can, no problem. I would do so, if I knew a person was in all sincerity seeking for the truth.

Are you seeking truth is the question? If we both are set in our ways.. then we will never get anywhere

 

[Ritajanice]

I’m afraid there is NO teachings from anyone on how we become Born Again of imperishable seed....if we were taught how to be Born Again by humans, then that would be of man/ woman.they would have the mystery of how God makes us Born Again....they don’t have that .....therefore their words are void of Gods truth, that’s what they have been deceived into believing.you cannot learn by reading scripture on how to become Born Again, it’s a false teaching.

Gods word says no such thing on how to be Born Again, Jesus teaches Nicodemus how the Holy Spirit moves that is all.and how we are Born of the Spirit....the Holy Spirit is like the wind, he is everywhere...just like the wind to the naked eye, you can’t see it, you can certainly see the destruction it can cause....you also can’t see the Holy Spirit, but, when he decides to make us Born Again, you know it in your heart/spirit, because that is where we become “ Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed “.

Not one person can explain how they were Born of the Spirit, because it’s a miraculous mystery of God.

A mind blowing experience that one will never forget ...because they were Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed....which liveth and abideth forever.....

My testimony and my thoughts.....Born Again is a wonderful gift from God......it’s the start of our spiritual journey with God via his Spirit.

A Born Again was predestined by God to receive his Living word/ seed.....when he decided to make us Born Again of imperishable seed......

A Born Again is all about God...he uses us for his purpose and his plan....we are the vessel that he uses to bring about his will on this earth....and we always Glorify the Father,Son, etc...

There is the process of having our sins forgiven of course, that process God is the initiator of and is not of man.....

◄ 1 John 4:4 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. New Living Translation But you belong to God, my dear children. You have already won a victory over those people, because the Spirit who lives in you is greater than the spirit who lives in the world. English Standard Version Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. Berean Standard Bible You, little children, are from God and have overcome them, because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.

 

[Red Baker]

We are justified first. And because we have been freed from the penalty of sin, we are born again

Eternally Grateful~Did you read my post above where I mentioned eternal justification? post #469

The word justification is used in at least five different senses in the scriptures and we must rightly divide them, or we will never fully grasp the meaning in what sense the word is used in a particular passage of scripture that one is considering.

The older writers of the scriptures fully understood the different senses it which the word justification was being used when expounding the word to others. I gave you two or three writers to read behind to check and compare to try their teachings with the word of God~did you take time to consider what they had to say? It is your lost if you did not.

It is almost like speaking in an unknown tongue today when laboring to expound certain doctrines that are no longer even known, much less, even mention from the today's pulpit.

Calvinistic nonsense.

That's a very common path that most take when they just cannot prove that the speaking/writer is wrong, it is a shortcut to continue to reject what is being said, because the person has very little scriptural knowledge to put to silence the person they are discoursing with, and it allows them space to think they are standing for the truth, when in fact they are rejecting what very well could be the truth ~ they will never know since they will not test it with the scriptures~very few noble Bereans anymore~Acts 17:11.

Btw, what exactly is Calvinistic nonsense to you? Care to explain? If folks could only stop and hear themselves speaking and then compare how the Pharisees spoke to Christ when he taught certain truths, they would be ashamed if the fear of God and a love for his word was in their hearts.

Jesus told us how to be born again

Like the serpent was raise on the pole..

Learn that story, you will see what it teaches concerning our new birth

I'm going there shortly ~ it is in my path on my way to verse 36 of John 3 ~ to complete the discourse I started. I do not avoid any scriptures and if I did, shame on me, and God would hold me accountable, and may even withhold some light on a certain truth from me ~ besides, why fear any scriptures if one truly believes he/she understand the word of God, he should take all scriptures head on since they all teach one cohesive truth, and truly they are needed to give the complete story of what is truth on the particular subject under consideration.

 

[Red Baker]

Are you seeking truth is the question? If we both are set in our ways.. then we will never get anywhere

Before God I trust that I' am.

Hebrews 13:18​

“Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.”

And to teach honestly before all men, and before God.

I actually started out believing what I was first taught, back in the early seventies, much different than what if firmly hold today~I did not believe in that Calvinistic nonsense as you called it, or amillennialism, and other doctrines that I have come to see and understand by not being set in my own ways, but I tests all things by God's revelation of the truth.

I can honestly say, I have practiced what I encourage others to do ~ God being my witness, and he does not lie for anyone, and no man should call God to be his witness who is not honest in what he is saying....that would not be too wise to do so.

 

[Red Baker]

A mind blowing experience that one will never forget ...because they were Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed....which liveth and abideth forever.....

Rita, while in some of your points I would agree, some you kinda go against what you are saying.

How can you say, that the new birth is a mind blowing experience that one will never forget, if indeed it is totally unknown to us when the new birth is being performed by God himself? Man is totally passive, God alone is the only active regent working in creating a new man within us instantly by his mighty power. He comes and he goes without us even knowing what is taking place. We only can see the effect of this birth with a change of heart toward God, his word, his people, etc. Just as we read about with the thief on the cross.

because they were Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed....which liveth and abideth forever.....

Again, we are born of the Spirit of God, period. You dear soul are bringing in the written word of God by misunderstanding 1st Peter 1:23-25....if I'm following you correctly.

Are you attempting to say the Spirit of God is the imperishable / incorruptible seed that liveth and abideth forever? I'm not sure, you tell me what you are saying. It is not clear, at least to me, what you are saying over and over again.