Why did Jesus have to suffer and die?

[face2face]

Why did Jesus have to suffer and die?​

We couldn't bear a man who showed us up. We couldn't handle a God who showed us God was not what we expected of an all powerful God. It was intolerable so we tortured and killed him.

Still grappling with God's determinate counsel I see. "It pleased the Lord to bruise him" why so?

 

[quietthinker]

Still grappling with God's determinate counsel I see. "It pleased the Lord to bruise him" why so?

Understanding Hebrew literary devices clears a lot of misinterpretations.

 

[face2face]

@JBO



Blasphemy Jesus is God

Actually if you both wrote according to the true Gospel you are saved because God raised His Son from the dead.

 

[face2face]

Understanding Hebrew literary devices clears a lot of misinterpretations.

Is this the sword you would fall on?

 

[quietthinker]

Is this the sword you would fall on?

f2f, if only you would/ could see how understanding the way the Hebrews wrote and why.....it would, if you had the courage, change how you saw. The risk for you though would be putting your current paradigm into question

 

[face2face]

f2f, if only you would/ could see how understanding the way the Hebrews wrote and why.....it would, if you had the courage, change how you saw. The risk for you though would be putting your current paradigm into question

Very clear in the Greek also!

"this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. Acts 2:23

A sacrificial offering for sin - the story of Abraham & Isaac should teach you that simply lesson but your paradigm has no footing in Gods Word.

F2F

 

[quietthinker]

Very clear in the Greek also!

"this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. Acts 2:23

A sacrificial offering for sin - the story of Abraham & Isaac should teach you that simply lesson but your paradigm has no footing in Gods Word.

F2F

As you wish f2f. The thing is, you don't know what you don't know.....and if you don't want to know you wont. It's as simple as that.

 

[face2face]

As you wish f2f. The thing is, you don't know what you don't know.....and if you don't want to know you wont. It's as simple as that.

Its bla bla bla as usual from you quiet...you have never been able to allow the Word to speak and you seem incapable of speaking to the Word.

What does Acts 2:23 means.
Provide context!
Show a Bible based understanding...use the OT to support.

Pray first...spend some time in the text...learn and grow and return with Wisdom

F2F

 

[quietthinker]

Its bla bla bla as usual from you quiet...you have never been able to allow the Word to speak and you seem incapable of speaking to the Word.

What does Acts 2:23 means.
Provide context!
Show a Bible based understanding...use the OT to support.

Pray first...spend some time in the text...learn and grow and return with Wisdom

F2F

You want to play chess with the scripture in the hope of securing a check mate. For me this is a boring game.....and it's boring because nobody is any the wiser about the wonder of Jesus. In fact, even when I asked you to tell me of Jehovah your draw a blank. This tells me plenty!

 

[brightfame52]

So, I provided what you wanted me to do. I provided a short explanation as to why only those who rest in God's fertile field will be saved and you then call it rubbish with the claim that you do not see that in scripture.

All that you have done is provide an opinion with no basis for that opinion.

If you have not seen what I have posted in the scripture, then can I ask, "When was the last time you read the scriptures for yourself and meditated upon the words that you read?"

You provided me a bunch of rubbish

 

[JBO]

@JBO



Blasphemy Jesus is God

Yes, Jesus is God. But His death is not what saves. The death, the sacrifice, is not the agency that saves. It is God that saves. The sacrifice is a propitiation to God who then is propitiated, placated, appeased, satisfied. On being propitiated, God forgives sin and accepts the sacrifice as payment for the debt required for all sin. It is in the forgiveness of sins and acceptance of the debt being paid that we are saved.

John says in 1 John 2:2, " He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world."

Paul says in Romans 3:25, "(Jesus Christ) whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith."

And " It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus (Rom 3:26 ).

 

[Jay Ross]

You provided me a bunch of rubbish

Troll, trolling other.

 

[Ritajanice]

2 Corinthians 5 ►

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Our Eternal Dwelling (Romans 8:18–27) 1Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is dismantled, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2For in this tent we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4So while we are in this tent, we groan under our burdens, because we do not wish to be unclothed but clothed, so that our mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5And God has prepared us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a pledge of what is to come. 6Therefore we are always confident, although we know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the Lord. 7For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we aspire to please Him, whether we are here in this body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad. Ambassadors for Christ 11Therefore, since we know what it means to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is clear to God, and I hope it is clear to your conscience as well.12We are not commending ourselves to you again. Instead, we are giving you an occasion to be proud of us, so that you can answer those who take pride in appearances rather than in the heart. 13If we are out of our mind, it is for God; if we are of sound mind, it is for you.14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. 15And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again. 16So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.a The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God.21God made Him who knew no sin to be sinb on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus gave up his life as God had already planned , he died the most dreadful death ever, not only that he took the sins of the whole world into his shoulders .​

Therefore the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus was necessary for us to be reconciled back to God, no death and resurrection of Jesus...there would also be no new birth/ Born Again/ Born of the Spirit.

We would still be in darkness and sins.

​

Romans 5:10​

“For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.”

 

[JBO]

​

2 Corinthians 5 ►

​

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Our Eternal Dwelling (Romans 8:18–27) 1Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is dismantled, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2For in this tent we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4So while we are in this tent, we groan under our burdens, because we do not wish to be unclothed but clothed, so that our mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5And God has prepared us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a pledge of what is to come. 6Therefore we are always confident, although we know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the Lord. 7For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we aspire to please Him, whether we are here in this body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad. Ambassadors for Christ 11Therefore, since we know what it means to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is clear to God, and I hope it is clear to your conscience as well.12We are not commending ourselves to you again. Instead, we are giving you an occasion to be proud of us, so that you can answer those who take pride in appearances rather than in the heart. 13If we are out of our mind, it is for God; if we are of sound mind, it is for you.14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. 15And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again. 16So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.a The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God.21God made Him who knew no sin to be sinb on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

Yes, most of us are aware of that chapter in 2 Corinthians. But what does that have to do with the subject at hand or any post that has appeared here?

Also, what is the purpose of the Roman reference in parentheses when the actual passage posted is 2 Corinthians 5?

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, most of us are aware of that chapter in 2 Corinthians. But what does that have to do with the subject at hand or any post that has appeared here?

Also, what is the purpose of the Roman reference in parentheses when the actual passage posted is 2 Corinthians 5?

All scripture was relevant to the topic @JBO ....unfortunately you only understand God’s word in the intellect,imo.

The purpose is...your assumptions are wrong!!...regarding the reconciliation of those who Jesus died for...you said he didn’t need to die, that his death doesn’t reconcile us back to God,..a load of nonsensical nonsense.

You’re confused in your understanding of God’s word...you don’t confuse the word of God in me @JBO ?

I post Gods word,,,you don’t..you post in the human intellect only..which makes no sense..my honest opinion, you have Zero spiritual understanding.....

 

[Ritajanice]

15And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again

 

[JBO]

Jesus gave up his life as God had already planned , he died the most dreadful death ever, not only that he took the sins of the whole world into his shoulders .​

Therefore the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus was necessary for us to be reconciled back to God, no death and resurrection of Jesus...there would also be no new birth/ Born Again/ Born of the Spirit.

The question is not if Jesus suffered and died but why. That He did is clearly known to all who believe. But why is the question.

 

[Ritajanice]

The question is not if Jesus suffered and died but why. That He did is clearly known to all who believe. But why is the question.

You said Jesus death does not reconcile us back to God?

False......That is not clearly known to all who believe, you can’t believe without the Spirit?

As Gods word says..you do well even the demons believed.

You must be reconciled by the death and resurrection of Jesus and then we must be Born Again, only then are we reconciled back to God via his Spirit...Born Of The Spirit, our spirit needs to be Born Again.

 

[JBO]

The purpose is...your assumptions are wrong!!...regarding the reconciliation of those who Jesus died for...you said he didn’t need to die, that his death doesn’t reconcile us back to God,..a load of nonsensical nonsense.

You lie. I have never said that Jesus didn't need to die. I didn't say anything about his death not reconciling anything. You lie.

You’re confused in your understanding of God’s word...you don’t confuse the word of God in me @JBO ?

I may be confused. But not nearly so confused as you.