Were We Alive In Heaven Before We Were Born?

[MA2444]

That's a moot point! View attachment 41805

You were in fact born here and now you have to deal with it.

Oh, dont be obtuse man. That's what other people say. I know the (minor) truth of it.

I chose this, I feel it in the core of my being. I just didn't know how bad it was going to be when I signed up. This Earth is God's University of Brotherly Love. It is where you to learn to love people while they are trying to kill you.

But clearly, He has shown me His character and personality. He's not one to force goodness and love on us, let alone evil. What kind of father when His son asks for a fish will give them a serpant? Not my Lord, Brother!

 

[Cassandra]

Oh, dont be obtuse man. That's what other people say. I know the (minor) truth of it.

I chose this, I feel it in the core of my being. I just didn't know how bad it was going to be when I signed up. This Earth is God's University of Brotherly Love. It is where you to learn to love people while they are trying to kill you.

But clearly, He has shown me His character and personality. He's not one to force goodness and love on us, let alone evil. What kind of father when His son asks for a fish will give them a serpant? Not my Lord, Brother!

I'm telling you. Your beliefs line up with Mormons. You should get a hold of that church if you really believe that.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It is where you to learn to love people while they are trying to kill you.

Huh? The homies are trying to whack you?

What kind of people you been hangin with?

 

[MA2444]

I'm telling you. Your beliefs line up with Mormons. You should get a hold of that church if you really believe that.

What? Again? No I wont go to your mormon church and I already told you that. Are you moemon recruiter or something? I know nothing of their beliefs and only know what I know. If you heard mormans saying similar things to me, well it's a small world. So what? That doesnt make me mormon. And you cant make me, Lol!

Did you make Ruebens or not?

 

[MA2444]

Huh? The homies are trying to whack you?

What kind of people you been hangin with? View attachment 41809

I was speaking facetiously. There you go again lol!

If I was surrounded would you come work the rear line for me to help?

 

[Scott Downey]

What kind of crack is that?! Oh go make us some sandwiches.



No I wouldnt be surprised thay he knew me before I was born because He IS the Author of me! I just dont know how everything in the spiritual realm works yet! Perhaps you have me confused with someone who knows it all? Lol.

But I can see what your trying to say, and I think it's kind of nutty. The Lord didnt die before man fell and He doesnt have to go and die over and over again. Instead of thinking like, God can time travel which is wrong we can just say I dont know how spiritual realm works. But Jesus said (correct me if I'm wrong!)...I knew you before I formed you in the womb.

Did He "know of" me? It doesn't say that. It says "I" Knew YOU before you were formed in the womb. So think I had to be there before I was born here.

There has to be time there because God speaks of yesterdays, todays and tomorrows.

Psalm 139 directly tells us God intimately knew us and all our days before as yet one of them came to be.
To think otherwise denies to God HIs very nature of an all-powerful Creator Godhead, especially so for v15-16 speaking of a type of pre-existence of a yet unformed substance. Skillfully wrought of the dust of the earth are all men.

13 For You formed my inward parts;
You [f]covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for [g]I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.

15 My [h]frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How great is the sum of them!
18 If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand;
When I awake, I am still with You.

 

[Spyder]

We were not "alive" in Heaven before we were born on Earth, but the Jewish mindset is that Yahweh "knew us" before we were conceived. We see in scriptures that He names only certain coming people who will serve Him, and there are passages that speak of those people in the "prophecy perfect" tense.
Of course, this does lend itself to God's foreknowledge of us. A different topic.

 

[MA2444]

To think otherwise denies to God HIs very nature of an all-powerful Creator Godhead, especially so for v15-16 speaking of a type of pre-existence of a yet unformed substance. Skillfully wrought of the dust of the earth are all men.

No it does not deny anything about God. Back up a wee bit and ask yourself is your consciousness residing in your flesh body? No way. We are created in God's image and we are spirit/soul/body.

Our spirit contains our conscience, fellowship and intuition.
Our soul contains our mind, will and emotions.
Our Body is a temporary dwelling for our spirit. Like Avatar.

So in the passeges you posted, He is talking about forming the body which will be our house for our spirit and soul. If our body is a dwelling place for our spirit you can say my body is a vehicle for my spirit. I am not my vehicle, I ride inside of it.

So as far as I can tell, what your wrote is right, and what I wrote is right also. So what happened is there was a spirit (me) and I was there before He even formed the body that I would dwell in. It makes sense to me that the Lord created or caused to come forth our spirit as a living sentinant being and we were with Him before being born here. No wonder He knew us before we were in the womb! This is simple.

Our spirit did not come from the dust in the ground my Brother. It came from God and scriptures say so. Our spirit/soul is "us" and is the most valuable part of us to God. He can make us a new better body to dwell in!

I'm ready for a trade in of this ol' rusty Nova!
We didnt come from the dust in the ground, only our body did.

 

[Scott Downey]

No it does not deny anything about God. Back up a wee bit and ask yourself is your consciousness residing in your flesh body? No way. We are created in God's image and we are spirit/soul/body.

Our spirit contains our conscience, fellowship and intuition.
Our soul contains our mind, will and emotions.
Our Body is a temporary dwelling for our spirit. Like Avatar.

So in the passeges you posted, He is talking about forming the body which will be our house for our spirit and soul. If our body is a dwelling place for our spirit you can say my body is a vehicle for my spirit. I am not my vehicle, I ride inside of it.

So as far as I can tell, what your wrote is right, and what I wrote is right also. So what happened is there was a spirit (me) and I was there before He even formed the body that I would dwell in. It makes sense to me that the Lord created or caused to come forth our spirit as a living sentinant being and we were with Him before being born here. No wonder He knew us before we were in the womb! This is simple.

Our spirit did not come from the dust in the ground my Brother. It came from God and scriptures say so. Our spirit/soul is "us" and is the most valuable part of us to God. He can make us a new better body to dwell in!

I'm ready for a trade in of this ol' rusty Nova!
We didnt come from the dust in the ground, only our body did.

And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

The above proves all our days on this earth God had written down in His book, everything that would happen to us, and the things we would do before we did them.

God's books contain all our deeds recorded beforehand.
All the good works we are to do as believers, God prepared beforehand for us to do.
Christ is the author of our faith.
What this really says, about our salvation is we are chosen for salvation according to foreknowledge of God about us.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

1 Peter 1
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

 

[MA2444]

And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

The above proves all our days on this earth God had written down in His book, everything that would happen to us, and the things we would do before we did them.

God's books contain all our deeds recorded beforehand.
All the good works we are to do as believers, God prepared beforehand for us to do.
Christ is the author of our faith.
What this really says, about our salvation is we are chosen for salvation according to foreknowledge of God about us.

Forgive me Brother, I know you are trying hard but that doesnt convincingly prove your implied point to me.

Before there was any of our days, they were fashioned for us and put into a book, right?

Now think about who we are and what we are doing here.

Are we Humans on a spiritual journey?

The answer is no.

We are spirit beings that are on a Human journey. That suggests maybe I even got to read the book before I signed up? I read the script! I want to be that guy!

Uh-Oh! I hear you already! Woe is this life! Me too, Brother, me too. WHo in thier right mind would sign up for this earthen valley of death?

But waitaminute...If I read the book first, then it also prolly had in it, the rewards upon graduation in Heaven for this class/life. Does that make sense? I think it does. It is Written, man can not comprehend or even imagine the goodness and rewards that God has in store for us in Heaven! Right? And of course we know tht God is a just God. No one gets beat on more than others in this life. I tink "Karma" is a fancy term for just and fair God! So I expect that some people who lead tragically short lives get an uncomprehensible reward for that task.

It spells it al out in the parable of the Rich ruler & Lazarus. The Rich guy had an easy life and didnt do nothing with it. Prolly chased women? He had a chance to do more good than he did. I think God wants people to have the same measure of good & suffering in the long run. Lazarus had a horrible life. He was the beggar by the city gates. Some days he didnt eat. He suffered through his life more than the rich guy did his life. And we know where it got them both! Now Lazarus had much comfort and was talking it easy. So it would seem that we can suffer here, or we can suffer there is what it sounds like.

So the whole point is, we might have had prior knowledge before we were born of the womb also. (But He gave us Amnesia as we were born) so we can't remember. But it gives a possible answer to why someone would want to come here and live on this planet of evil? We agreed before we got Amnesia. We considered the reward into our decision to sign up for "me" and agreed to it. Now I forget what the reward was. So it would seem stupid to say I asked for this! Simple enough. It all fits. So we get a memory restoration when we go to be with the Lord.

We got born into a war, behind enemy lines. It was a hard landing and I bumped my head. I cant even remember my name. All I have in pack is a Field Manual (bible) and a Radio (prayer). Later I learned that I have an invisible guide (Holy Spirit).

How many people have discovered what their mission is? (It's right in the Field Manual!)

 

[Ziggy]

What manner of spirit are ye of?

Luk 9:54
And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
Luk 9:55
But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Luk 9:56
For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

How do you hear this?

hugs

 

[Mr E]

Jeremiah 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.../KJV

If Jesus knew us before we were in the womb, then we were in His presence before. We know that Jesus does not force the Gospel or Salvation upon any man. He has given us free will and wont violate it. So doesnt it make sense that since Jesus never foreces Himself upon anyone, and He never changes (!) that is it possible that we agreed to come here? Or maybe even chose our parents that we would be born to?

He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, and He knew us before we were in the womb. What did we talk about? Apparently, being born with Amnesia was part of the course.

What do you think?

One Saturday morning a man awoke early, knowing he had set the day aside to paint his barn. So when he got up-- he put on painting clothes, ate his breakfast and set out to do all that he had intended. When the task was done, his pants and shirt were covered in red paint and hardly worth keeping for future use--

Sunday he, put on fine clothes-- his Sunday best, and went to Church, had brunch and visited with friends-- a day of rest.

This man, though he lived on a farm-- he worked also in town-- where he was a Banker. So when Monday came around, he put on his work clothes-- neither the spoiled paint clothes, nor his Sunday best, but simple business attire-- and with shirt and tie he went to work at the Bank.

Come Thursday afternoon, he left work early and changed into a baseball uniform, and as the team pitcher- he struck out 7 batters.

The man was a farmer, a painter, a banker, a worshipper, and a pitcher --and he was known and remembered as all these. When he died and went to heaven, St Peter recognized him right away- Calling out to the Saints in heaven, St Peter said-- "Hey fellas! He's here! This is the guy I was telling you about...."

The man said-- "Ah you know me from Church."

Puzzled-- St Peter said-- "Church? -no. I was just telling my friends that there was a painter coming up, who had one hell of a curve ball."
-------------

What we were, on various days of the week are almost inconsequential..... it's just different clothes.

So too with being known in the womb.

 

[TLHKAJ]

I understand that God is omnipresent, which is everywhere at once AND at every time!

But I can't see the truth in the statement: I didnt ask to be born here!
Now I'm no Abraham or Paul, but I know the Lord well enough to know that His Character would not let Him force us to be born here.

We all know very well that the Lord does not force Himself uopn anyone. We have free will to choose. So if we have free will now, why would He force us into being born here against our will?!
He would not, it's as simple as that. The Lord is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, He never changes His character.

You're making assumptions that are not in scripture and those assumptions create even more questions, which leads to more and more assumptions ...and false doctrines, and false religions.

Where in scripture do you see a human (man or woman) say "before Abraham was, I Am" ...or "before the foundations of the world, I did (this or that)"? Only Jesus Christ can say that because HE is God .....and we are not.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If I was surrounded would you come work the rear line for me to help?

Not if you were speaking facetiously.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Uh-Oh! I hear you already! Woe is this life! Me too, Brother, me too. WHo in thier right mind would sign up for this earthen valley of death?

So Adam and Eve chose to come here and fall before they were born. And (supposedly) a spirit dwelling in pureness and perfection chose to be born and live a life as a child rapist, a satanist, a murderer ...or to be at the other end of that ...the victim of such things.

Okay .....lol .....this is messed up! lol

This is ridiculous. WE are NOT God. Period. We are not pre-existent. We didn't choose to come here on some mission to elevate ourselves and get rewards, or to do evil acts and spend eternity separated from God in flames. There is no scriptural support for that.

 

[TLHKAJ]

What manner of spirit are ye of?

Luk 9:54
And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
Luk 9:55
But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Luk 9:56
For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

How do you hear this?

hugs

"What manner of spirit are ye of?"

Jesus was calling into question, more, calling to their attention .....to take inventory of their intentions and where their inspiration was coming from.

There are passages where Jesus flat told people .... "You are of your father, the devil." He was telling them who they were serving. What He was NOT saying is that before they came into a body, their spirit came from satan. (lol .....see how we have to follow this out if we assume things that scripture isn't saying?)

This isn't directed at you, @Ziggy.

 

[Cassandra]

What? Again? No I wont go to your mormon church and I already told you that. Are you moemon recruiter or something? I know nothing of their beliefs and only know what I know. If you heard mormans saying similar things to me, well it's a small world. So what? That doesnt make me mormon. And you cant make me, Lol!

Did you make Ruebens or not?

Nope!!.Far from it!!!SDA here! Not a Mormon or I would agree with you. I don't know what the sandwich thing is with you. I am not your servant. all I am saying is that this belief agrees with mormon beliefs--it is not a cut. If I believed a certain way, and someone told me they knew of a church that believed that way, and told me, I wouldn't get bent out of shape about it. Somebody else told ya that was a Mormon belief on this thread too--did you ask them for sandwiches? Hecks no.

 

[TLHKAJ]

We are created in God's image and we are spirit/soul/body.

Think about that. Follow it out. Do you believe that God was created?
Or... if our spirit was with God before conception, are we God like Jesus? (Jn chapter 1 says Jesus was with God as the Word, and the Word was God.)

According to your assumptions, we would have been with God before the earth was created ...and we were always here ....so we were not created at all ....we are God like Jesus.

 

[Ziggy]

"What manner of spirit are ye of?"

Jesus was calling into question, more, calling to their attention .....to take inventory of their intentions and where their inspiration was coming from.

There are passages where Jesus flat told people .... "You are of your father, the devil." He was telling them who they were serving. What He was NOT saying is that before they came into a body, their spirit came from satan. (lol .....see how we have to follow this out if we assume things that scripture isn't saying?)

This isn't directed at you, @Ziggy.

Where their inspiration was coming from.. I like that.

Where does inspiration come from?

I don't believe your spirit comes from satan, but through the course of ones life they can choose to serve whom they will.
You can follow the spirit God gave you or you can sell it to the devil and follow him.
If our spirit was not from God then where would be repentance? What would you return to, if your spirit originated with satan?
If your spirit originated with satan, then what would be the need for redemption? redeemed from what?

You can only redeem what originally belonged to you, no?
I can't redeem something that was already yours to begin with.

What is redemption?

Hugs

 

[Mr E]

Mormons believe that we were all spirit babies before we came here that is why i posted that. Might fall more in line with your thinking.

What i was saying is that you read God knew us before we were in the womb, and are trying to take that literally. I am saying that the Bible also uses the phrase "Lamb slain from foundation of the world, but you don't take that one literally. Neither are literal. They show that God knew us before He made us, and the plan of salvation was in place before the foundation of the world.


Yesterdays todays and tomorrows are man things. God is outside of time. In the beginning (time) God created Heaven (space ) and earth(matter) God created time.

SDA believers say that Jesus pre-existed his earthly life that began some 2000 years ago, as Michael — the Angel.