Jesus's "siblings"

[Mr E]

The Koine Greek word "ἀδελφός" (adelphos;brother) is the singular form of its plural form "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi;brothers), both of which are used in Matt. 13:55/Mk.6:3: "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is His mother not called Mary, and His brothers, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas?" (Matt. 13:55); "Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon?"



The context in Matt. 13:55/Mk.6:3 show its definition "kinsman, or relative" applies in these verses, and one's kinsman/relative could be a sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc., but information needed to determine the type of family members is lacking in those same verses. You assert Jesus's four brothers (kinsmen/relatives) were His siblings, but you haven't provided evidence to support that.

I, however, provided evidence in the opening post showing (i) that James and Judas of the four were apostles James and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) of Alphaeus (Matt. 10:3, Mk. 3:18, Lk. 6:15-16, Ac. 1:13), (ii) that this Alphaeus was the brother of Jesus's mother's spouse, and thus the four were Jesus's cousins, and (iii) that this James is the same person as "James the Less" (Mk. 15:40), "James the brother of the Lord" (Gal. 1:19), "James the Just," "James the bishop of Jerusalem" (Ac. 15:13-21), and "James the author of the Epistle of James" (Jas. 1).

Dude— it doesn’t matter how many times you say the same thing. You haven’t in the least precluded Jesus from having an actual brother named James. Same goes for Joses. That name means Joe Jr. You get that right?

It’s not a stretch to think he also had a brother named Simon— because scripture says he did! This would add context to him giving another Simon, who was not his brother (Simon bar Jonah) a nickname— Peter, to easily distinguish the two when talking about them. He does the same thing with John— nicknaming him Mark to distinguish from John the Baptist (John bar Zechariah) and John bar Zebedee.

 

[Sigma]

That’s wrong. Specifically— this>>

Nowhere in Scripture is anyone called Jesus's "sibling

-is wrong.

James is specifically called the brother of Jesus. For the special learners in class— a brother is a sibling.

What you refuse to accept is that "sibling," or "half-sibling," is not a direct definition of the Koine Greek word ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos [brother];pl. adelphoi [brothers]), but the broad familial definition "kinsman, or relative" is, and one's kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc. The context in Matt. 13:55/Mk.6:3 shows its definition "kinsman, or relative" applies to Jesus's four brothers in these verses, but information needed to determine the type of family members is lacking in those same verses.

You assert Jesus's four brothers (kinsmen/relatives) were His siblings, or half-siblings, but you haven't provided evidence to show that. You get that right? Unlike you, I've provided evidence (scriptural verses and early Christian testimonials) in the opening post to show that Jesus's four brothers (kinsmen/relatives) were the sons of His uncle, and thus His cousins. You haven't even attempted to refute that evidence.

 

[Mr E]

What you refuse to accept is that "sibling," or "half-sibling," is not a direct definition of the Koine Greek word ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos [brother];pl. adelphoi [brothers]), but the broad familial definition "kinsman, or relative" is, and one's kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc. The context in Matt. 13:55/Mk.6:3 shows its definition "kinsman, or relative" applies to Jesus's four brothers in these verses, but information needed to determine the type of family members is lacking in those same verses.

You assert Jesus's four brothers (kinsmen/relatives) were His siblings, or half-siblings, but you haven't provided evidence to show that. You get that right? Unlike you, I've provided evidence (scriptural verses and early Christian testimonials) in the opening post to show that Jesus's four brothers (kinsmen/relatives) were the sons of His uncle, and thus His cousins. You haven't even attempted to refute that evidence.

What Greek word should have been substituted for brother, if brother was intended, to satisfy critics of the inspired authors such as yourself?

Is there another word for brother that should have been used? For example, when speaking of the sons of thunder-- the Zebedee boys-- what word is used to specify their relationship to one another?

I'll help you again.... it's "adelphos."

To Simon he gave the name Peter; to James and his brother John, the sons of Zebedee, he gave the name Boanerges (that is, “sons of thunder”)

 

[Sigma]

What Greek word should have been substituted for brother, if brother was intended, to satisfy critics of the inspired authors such as yourself?

Is there another word for brother that should have been used? For example, when speaking of the sons of thunder-- the Zebedee boys-- what word is used to specify their relationship to one another?

I'll help you again.... it's "adelphos."

To Simon he gave the name Peter; to James and his brother John, the sons of Zebedee, he gave the name Boanerges (that is, “sons of thunder”)

The Koine Greek word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos [brother];pl. adelphoi [brothers] has the following definitions:

"fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "kinsman, or relative," etc.

As you can see, "sibling" is not a direct definition of it, but it doesn't mean that "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos [brother];pl. adelphoi [brothers] can't be used to refer to family members that are siblings in Scripture, because it has been, but at times it refers to other types of family members as well. That's why it has the broad familial definition "kinsman, or relative," as a kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc.

Now, when reading Scripture, how do we know which definition of the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos [brother];pl. adelphoi [brothers]) applies in any given verse? We look for additional information, such as context, testimony, etc. If we don't, and just assume "siblings" applies wherever we read the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos [brother];pl. adelphoi [brothers]), then for example, the following verse would mean Jesus had over five hundred siblings:

"After that He appeared to more than five hundred brothers..." (1 Cor. 15:6)

Asinine is it not? Thanks to additional information, we know those brothers of Jesus were His disciples.

Regarding Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, context shows that the definition "kinsman, or relative" applies to the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos [brother];pl. adelphoi [brothers]) in those verses, and one's kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc. You assert Jesus's four brothers (kinsmen/relatives) were His siblings, but you haven't provided evidence to support that.

Your homework:

• Provide evidence for your assertion that Jesus's four brothers (kinsmen/relatives) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 were His siblings.
• Refute the evidence I provided in the opening post (scriptural verses and early Christian testimonials) that show Jesus's four brothers (kinsmen/relatives) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 were the sons of His uncle, and thus His cousins.

 

[Pearl]

You claimed the following: "Jesus had brothers and sisters - siblings in other words - all born of the same mother who was Mary." Were you referring to those called Jesus's brothers and sisters in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4?

I have no idea. I've slept since then.

 

[Sigma]

I have no idea. I've slept since then.

Question.

• Nowhere in Scripture is anyone other than Jesus called the son of Mary of Joseph.
• Nowhere in Scripture is anyone called Jesus's sibling.

So, why do you believe so-and-so were Jesus's sibling(s)?

 

[Mr E]

The Koine Greek word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos [brother];pl. adelphoi [brothers] has the following definitions:

"fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "kinsman, or relative," etc.

As you can see, "sibling" is not a direct definition of it, but it doesn't mean that "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos [brother];pl. adelphoi [brothers] can't be used to refer to family members that are siblings in Scripture, because it has been, but at times it refers to other types of family members as well. That's why it has the broad familial definition "kinsman, or relative," as a kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc.

Now, when reading Scripture, how do we know which definition of the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos [brother];pl. adelphoi [brothers]) applies in any given verse? We look for additional information, such as context, testimony, etc. If we don't, and just assume "siblings" applies wherever we read the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos [brother];pl. adelphoi [brothers]), then for example, the following verse would mean Jesus had over five hundred siblings:

"After that He appeared to more than five hundred brothers..." (1 Cor. 15:6)

Asinine is it not? Thanks to additional information, we know those brothers of Jesus were His disciples.

Regarding Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, context shows that the definition "kinsman, or relative" applies to the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos [brother];pl. adelphoi [brothers]) in those verses, and one's kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc. You assert Jesus's four brothers (kinsmen/relatives) were His siblings, but you haven't provided evidence to support that.

Your homework:

• Provide evidence for your assertion that Jesus's four brothers (kinsmen/relatives) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 were His siblings.
• Refute the evidence I provided in the opening post (scriptural verses and early Christian testimonials) that show Jesus's four brothers (kinsmen/relatives) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 were the sons of His uncle, and thus His cousins.

Your entire thesis is based on the one idea that in Matthew "adelphos" doesn't mean "brother" in this case.

It's a premise. And you haven't come anywhere near "proving" it. It's mere conjecture, a supposition and most of all-- it's completely unnecessary anywhere but in your head.

An honest academic would admit-- that yes-- it could mean "brother" in some broader sense, but YES-- it could simply mean "brother" in familial sense.

At this point you are just repeating yourself and filling page space.

 

[Pearl]

Nowhere in Scripture is anyone other than Jesus called the son of Mary of Joseph.

Joseph wasn't really Jesus' father although that is how he was known. Jesus' true father was Almighty God.

Nowhere in Scripture is anyone called Jesus's sibling.

Depends what you mean by sibling. It can mean brothers or sister or both. I have one full sibling - sister and two half siblings - half sisters.
.
Matthew 12:46

Jesus’ Mother and Brothers​

While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him.

So, why do you believe so-and-so were Jesus's sibling(s)?

Who are so and so? I do believe he had blood brothers and sister - in other words siblings.

 

[Pearl]

Did Jesus have brothers and sisters (siblings)? | GotQuestions.org

Did Jesus have brothers and sisters (siblings)? Were the brothers and sisters of Jesus mentioned in the Bible actually His cousins?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Sigma]

Joseph wasn't really Jesus' father although that is how he was known.

I didn't say Joseph was Jesus's biological father. I said nowhere in Scripture is anyone other than Jesus called the son of Mary.

I do believe he had blood brothers and sister - in other words siblings.

Why do you believe Jesus had half-siblings when no one in Scripture is called His half-sibling?

Matthew 12:46

Jesus’ Mother and Brothers​

While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him.

The Koine Greek word "ἀδελφοί" (sing. adelphos [brother];pl. adelphoi [brothers]) has the following textbook definitions:

"fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "kinsman, or relative," etc.

As you can see, "sibling," nor any other type of family member, is a direct definition, but rather "kinsman, or relative" is, and it's used to refer to various types of family members, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc.

If you believe the definition "kinsman, or relative" applies to Jesus's brothers in Matt. 12:46, what's your evidence for that, as well as what specific type of family members they were?

 

[Pearl]

Why do you believe Jesus had half-siblings when no one in Scripture is called His half-sibling?

• Now you are going round in circles.
• Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit of God and birthed by Mary in the way of all humans,
• Mary was his mother and Joseph to all intents and purposes was his earthly father. But Jesus also had his heavenly Father.
• Mary and Joseph had sex - more than once - and she conceived and gave birth to other babies.
• These babies were Jesus; brothers and sisters.
• In other words his siblings.

So scripture doesn't actually call them 'half siblings' because to all intents and purposes Joseph was father to all of them. Only he and Mary knew Jesus was God's own son because angels had told them so.

Only inasmuch as Jesus was miraculously conceived is he half brother to his siblings.

Are you going to find something to twist in that @Sigma ?

 

[Pearl]

Why do you believe Jesus had half-siblings when no one in Scripture is called His half-sibling?

They don't need to. I didn't call his brothers and sister half siblings - you did that.

 

[Sigma]

• These babies were Jesus; brothers and sisters.
• In other words his siblings.

Who specifically in Scripture do you believe were the sons/daughters of Joseph and Mary, and thus were Jesus's siblings, or half-siblings?

 

[Pearl]

Read my post number 72 it name all of them. I'm done. I'm getting dizzy with all this going round in circles. Life is too short to keep up this waste of space and time.

 

[Sigma]

Read my post number 72 it name all of them.

I read it. So, you believe Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus), and the unnamed women of Jesus in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 were the sons and daughters of Joseph and Mary.

In those verses,

• Only Jesus is called the son of Joseph and Mary
• Jesus's brothers and sisters are only called just that: "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi;brothers) and "αδελφαι" (adelphai;sisters). These words have the following textbook definitions: "fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "kinsman, or relative," etc.

The context in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 shows the definition "kinsman, or relative" applies to Jesus's brothers and sisters in those verses, and a kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc.

Do you have any evidence that shows Jesus's brothers and sisters (kinsmen/relatives) in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3 were the sons of Joseph and Mary, and thus His siblings or half-siblings?

 

[Pearl]

Round like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever-spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain, or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel that's turning running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.

 

[Sigma]

Round like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever-spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain, or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel that's turning running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.

You read the words "brother(s)" and "sister(s) and assume it refers to "sibling(s)."

That's not how this works. If it was, the following verse would mean Jesus appeared to over five hundred siblings:

"After that He appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters..." (1 Cor. 15:6)

It's an asinine form of reasoning.

You're not considering the original Koine Greek word used. You're ignoring its textbook definitions. You're ignoring who is actually and only called the son of Joseph and Mary: Jesus. You're ignoring my question in post #79.

 

[MatthewG]

Is it possible to brothers with the Lord Jesus Christ, by doing the will of God?

For whoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

 

[Sigma]

Is it possible to brothers with the Lord Jesus Christ, by doing the will of God?

For whoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Yes, but we're not talking about spiritual familial relationships, but rather physical ones.

 

[Sigma]

An honest academic would admit-- that yes-- it could mean "brother" in some broader sense, but YES-- it could simply mean "brother" in familial sense.

The Koine Greek word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos [brother];pl. adelphoi [brothers]) has the following textbook definitions:

"fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "kinsman, or relative," etc.

As you can see, "sibling," nor any other type of family member, is neither a direct nor only definition. The only familial definition this word has is "kinsman, or relative," and one's kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc.

So, if that's what you're saying, then we agree on this point.

Your entire thesis is based on the one idea that in Matthew "adelphos" doesn't mean "brother" in this case. It's a premise. And you haven't come anywhere near "proving" it. It's mere conjecture, a supposition and most of all-- it's completely unnecessary anywhere but in your head.

More accurately, the only familial definition of "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi;brothers) is "kinsman, or relative," and context shows that definition applies to Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3.

It's the scriptural verses and early Christian testimonies in the opening post that collectively show Jesus's brothers (kinsmen/relatives) Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were the sons of His uncle, and thus His cousins. Are you going to attempt to refute that evidence?

What's your evidence that shows Jesus's brothers (kinsmen/relatives) Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were the sons of Joseph and Mary, and thus His siblings?