The (7th) Abomination That Maketh Desolate

[Timtofly]

Let me ask you this, do you think some believers are going to inherit or receive the promised land while other believers will not? If so what is it based on?

Are believers even going to heaven? I assume by believer, you mean a redeemed soul? James 2:18-20

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

Jesus also said the meek will inherit the earth.

The church are the redeemed who know they are redeemed. Although some may be surprised they are redeemed when they leave this earth?

That is why I don't understand why some think the Second Coming is after every one is physically dead.

Jesus Himself is going to choose living people at the Second Coming and change them, just because Jesus chooses to do so.

Those whom Jesus chooses after the Second Coming inherit the earth. The church who chooses Jesus by faith inherit Paradise in heaven, that heavenly city.

But no one can put that choice off thinking they have a chance at living on the earth. Like I asked, some at the end of their life might be surprised they are even redeemed. It is both a work and a faith. Some could put in all the work, but doubt their whole life. Why would they be the same as those who believed, but lived like devils?

 

[covenantee]

You don't speak for 8000 Jews, who embraced the gospel of salvation 2000 years ago.

Just stick to the 7 year 70th week which ends with Jesus's Second Coming in both Revelation and in Ezekiel 39.

You're stuck with your decapitated 70th week.

Mine is irremovably attached to the preceding 69 weeks.

Daniel speaks for 8,000 and all saved Jews.

I just quote him.

Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

You claim Daniel 9:24 is unfulfilled; therefore, there is no righteousness.

Explain how there can be the gospel of salvation devoid of righteousness.

 

[ewq1938]

"The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days."

Jesus was the Messiah but he did not come as an annointed king.

----------------------------------------------------

The person who will actually anoint the Antichrist as the King of Israel will be the false prophet

None of this comes from the bible though.

The Jews believe that the maschiach will be anointed the King of Israel by a "known" (using their words) prophet. They base that belief on Saul and David being anointed king by Samuel the prophet. And Solomon being anointed king by Nathan the prophet.

Again, bible prophecy does not say the Ac will be anointed king of Israel.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus was the Messiah but he did not come as an annointed king.

Jesus' words in red.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Again, bible prophecy does not say the Ac will be anointed king of Israel.

It is built into the pre-fix "Anti" and the Jewish concept of mashiach (messiah) - christ.

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

John 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

John 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

John 19:21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.

----------------------------

So there you have it. Jesus was born into this world to be a king, words of Jesus Himself, John 18:37. Pilate writing the title on the cross about Jesus - King of the Jews, John 19:19. The Jews rejecting Jesus as their king, John 19:21.

The Antichrist will be the another, John 5:43, who will be anointed the King of Israel, the king of the Jews, as the Jews will think he is their long awaited messiah.

 

[Douggg]

Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

You claim Daniel 9:24 is unfulfilled; therefore, there is no righteousness.

Explain how there can be the gospel of salvation devoid of righteousness.

The Jews, as a nation, have yet to embrace the gospel of salvation in Jesus.

 

[covenantee]

The Jews, as a nation, have yet to embrace the gospel of salvation in Jesus.

You didn't answer the invitation.

Explain how there can be the gospel of salvation devoid of righteousness.


How quickly you forget.

As with the entirety of humanity, only a remnant of Israel will ever be saved.

Not the nation.

Romans 9:27
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Isaiah 10:22
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus' words in red.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

To this end means he was eventually to end up being a king but he was not a king during that first coming.

One verse before:

Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

It is built into the pre-fix "Anti" and the Jewish concept of mashiach (messiah) - christ.

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

John 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Saying this does not make it true at that moment. Listen to Jesus in the two other verses where he is clear he has no kingdom here.

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

He is making a point not speaking prophecy.

John 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

Mockery. It is a lie.

John 19:21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.

The biggest liars in the entire book.

The Antichrist will be the another, John 5:43, who will be anointed the King of Israel, the king of the Jews, as the Jews will think he is their long awaited messiah.

Still doesn't come from the bible. Not one verse shows the Ac by any name being crowned king of Israel.

 

[quietthinker]

It's not that I don't fully comprehend the details of what the majority of church- ianity teaches about KJV Dan. 12:11, but rather of why Jesus referenced it, in relation to what He means in KJV John 2:18-21, specifically verse 19.

You don't understand why Jesus referenced it because your paradigm won't allow you to.

 

[Douggg]

You didn't answer the invitation.

Explain how there can be the gospel of salvation devoid of righteousness

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The 70 weeks are determined upon the Jews and Jerusalem. The gospel of salvation has not yet been embraced by the Jews, corporately as the nation of Israel. The Jews, corporately the woman in Revelation 12, Israel, will embrace Jesus and the gospel of salvation in the middle part of the 7 year 70th week, in Revelation 12:10. Jesus will return at the end of 7 years, and the period of everlasting righteousness for Israel will begin.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[Douggg]

To this end means he was eventually to end up being a king but he was not a king during that first coming.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem hailed as the King of Israel, riding a donkey fulfilling Zechariah 14:9. Do you believe that Jesus will return as king riding a donkey at His Second Coming ?

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

John 12:
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

Jesus presented Himself as the King of Israel who comes in the name of the Lord in John 12:12-15. At His first coming.

 

[covenantee]

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The 70 weeks are determined upon the Jews and Jerusalem. The gospel of salvation has not yet been embraced by the Jews, corporately as the nation of Israel. The Jews, corporately the woman in Revelation 12, Israel, will embrace Jesus and the gospel of salvation in the middle part of the 7 year 70th week, in Revelation 12:10. Jesus will return at the end of 7 years, and the period of everlasting righteousness for Israel will begin.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

I've provided the Scripture which invalidates your claims.

You're unable to recognize that only a remnant will be saved.

You're unable to explain how the gospel of salvation can be devoid of righteousness.

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one of these two Israels shall be saved.

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only the faithful obedient spiritual "all Israel", comprised of the believing elect beloved remnant from Israel (Romans 9:27; Romans 11:1-5,26,28), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.

 

[Douggg]

You're unable to recognize that only a remnant will be saved.

A remnant when considering the number of the house of Israel over the course of 2000 years.

You're unable to explain how the gospel of salvation can be devoid of righteousness.

You are trying to change up what Daniel 9:24 contains. The issue is not about what the gospel of salvation in Christ is. But when the Jews, corporately as Israel will embrace Jesus and the gospel of salvation. It will be in the middle part of the 7 year 70th week.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Everlasting righteousness for the Jews and Jerusalem will begin when Jesus returns.

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus' words in red.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.


It is built into the pre-fix "Anti" and the Jewish concept of mashiach (messiah) - christ.

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

John 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

John 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

John 19:21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.

----------------------------

So there you have it. Jesus was born into this world to be a king, words of Jesus Himself, John 18:37. Pilate writing the title on the cross about Jesus - King of the Jews, John 19:19. The Jews rejecting Jesus as their king, John 19:21.

The Antichrist will be the another, John 5:43, who will be anointed the King of Israel, the king of the Jews, as the Jews will think he is their long awaited messiah.

So the 7th Trumpet happened in the first century? Do you have 2 70th weeks? One in the first century, and one in the future?

 

[covenantee]

A remnant when considering the number of the house of Israel over the course of 2000 years.

There's no such consideration.

Romans 9:27
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

You claim that the nation shall be saved.

Paul declares that a remnant shall be saved.

I believe Paul.

The issue is not about what the gospel of salvation in Christ is.

The issue is whether there is righteousness in the gospel of salvation.

There most certainly is.

It was and is the everlasting righteousness of which Daniel prophesied, brought in by Christ at Calvary.

In the middle of the undecapitated 70th week.

 

[Douggg]

So the 7th Trumpet happened in the first century? Do you have 2 70th weeks? One in the first century, and one in the future?

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

 

[Douggg]

There's no such consideration.

Romans 9:27
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

You claim that the nation shall be saved.

Paul declares that a remnant shall be saved.

I believe Paul.

The issue is whether there is righteousness in the gospel of salvation.

There most certainly is.

It was and is the everlasting righteousness of which Daniel prophesied, brought in by Christ at Calvary.

In the middle of the undecapitated 70th week.

All Christians believe Paul, but not all Christians understand Paul.

 

[covenantee]

All Christians believe Paul, but not all Christians understand Paul.

Not all Christians understand Paul's "remnant".

Many disbelieve it and attempt to substitute "nation".

 

[Timtofly]

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

No one stepped in as the physical Messiah in the first century, other than Jesus No one is going to step in as a physical King in the future, other than Jesus.

 

[Douggg]

No one stepped in as the physical Messiah in the first century, other than Jesus No one is going to step in as a physical King in the future, other than Jesus.

What do you mean "stepped in" ?

Do you mean that there is not going to be an Antichrist person ?

 

[ewq1938]

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem hailed as the King of Israel, riding a donkey fulfilling Zechariah 14:9. Do you believe that Jesus will return as king riding a donkey at His Second Coming ?

He will return on a white horse as a king for the first time on Earth.

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

John 12:
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

Jesus presented Himself as the King of Israel who comes in the name of the Lord in John 12:12-15. At His first coming.

I have already proven him as a king is prophecy that did not happen at the first coming. His kingdom was not from here.