Once saved, always saved is a myth.

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Michiah-Imla

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When you believe in insecurity in Christ,you have not a clue as to what is being discussed.

I believe the biblical teaching of salvation, not man’s silly “Once Saved Always Saved” nonsense.

Those that endure to the end,are one and the same in God's eternal irrevocable covenant.

And are you all-knowing as God to be sure that YOU will endure unto the end?

If so that is pride at its finest.

we have his blessed assurance no weapon forged against us can overcome our state in God's grace.

Yes,

IF:

“If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” (Colossians 1:23)
 

BlessedPeace

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I believe the biblical teaching of salvation,
Obviously not by your next sentence
not man’s silly “Once Saved Always Saved” nonsense.
Corrupt men disfigured the eternal truth of God by lying and claiming Eternal Irrevocable Salvation means you can sin with impunity and still be saved.

They lied. Jesus never said that.

Meanwhile eternal irrevocable salvation remains so. Despite unbelievers insistence it does not.

Nominal Christians.
Do not know eternal security .

And are you all-knowing as God to be sure that YOU will endure unto the end?

If so that is pride at its finest.



Yes,

IF:

“If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” (Colossians 1:23)
No one can reach that which believes in works salvation. I. E. Self-Deification. You save yourself by putting your nose to the grindstone.


Good luck.
 
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Michiah-Imla

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Nominal Christians.
Do not know eternal security .

The plain words of God without commentary clearly show that salvation is conditional.

The doctrine of “Once Saved Always Saved” requires an explanation added to many passages in the holy scriptures.

Because:

“…the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” (Romans 8:7)

The phrase “eternal security” is an unbiblical phrase.

Invented by man.
 
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MatthewG

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True.
Now show the scripture where Jesus changed his mind and renounced his irrevocable gift of Salvation.
That is the thing your missing.

On part of Christ for the whole world he has taken care of everyone sins. Everyone in reality who are born into this world are born into the world as a God created soul, and a blank slate to their name.

Everyone on part of Christ, has been saved from death (even the second death; if Christ has the keys to death and hades, I believe in the fullness of this scope with Jesus overcoming the second death, on behalf of all as well.

Everyone on part of Christ, has also been saved from Hell, or Sheol as they call it. Jesus overcame, Sin, Death, Hell, and Satan for all of the world, and was able to reconcile the world to God, by virtue of Yahavahs help, which in Christ God reconciled the world unto himself.

So, Salvation is given to all people; there is no anyone can take away what Jesus has done for the whole world, and Yahavah continues to call out to people today.

Believers, can become non believing, they are still saved from sin, death, hell, and Satan, just as already nonbelievers. That is why I believe all will be resurrected.

Be it resurrection of damnation,
Be it resurrection of life,
Be it a resurrection that is better than the others.

I believe that there are people who are on the outside of the Heavenly Kingdom today, and there are people who are entering into the Kingdom.

I do believe that people have a second chance in the afterlife compared to anyone who tells me differently, because if Yahava desires all to come to him, some can come now; some may even leave, but they will come to know the truth of the Son of God, and perhaps those in the darkness can turn around and be transformed in Gods eternal fire which is purgative and helps takes darkness away from us today.

Being baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire (from God), which Jesus becomes one’s sanctification and redemption, wisdom, etc….

People can reject and turn and the Holy Spirit leave them, and they would be deemed not covered as far as the unforgivable sin, which mainly “unbelief.”

People continue to dismiss the words of Jesus concerning the Kingdom of Heaven.
 

BlessedPeace

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The plain words of God without commentary clearly show that salvation is conditional.

The doctrine of “Once Saved Always Saved” requires an explanation added to many passages in the holy scriptures.

Because:

“…the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” (Romans 8:7)

The phrase “eternal security” is an unbiblical phrase.

Invented by man.
Not at all true,save for eternal security being a term that encapsulates the irrevocable gift in the Gospel.
 

Phil .

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Saved is the default. Like how the thoughts guilty & innocent are made of innocence.
Thoughts about there being a finite self in time, which is or isn’t save, was or wasn’t saved, might be or might not be saved…. obscure the truth. Obscured or not, the truth remains the truth.
 

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MatthewG

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There seems to be only two choices to make.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil.
The tree of life.

Just as there are two choices, a person who desires to be with God, and a person who doesn’t desire to be with God.

There seems to be two destinations, not Heaven or Hell, but the Heavenly Realm, (inside or outside.)

That is all that has been made known to me, I have read the Bible enough to know that Yahavah is a God who is good, is spirit, and give us sustaining life as people choose to walk in faith, and by the spirit in order to love people, God first and foremost.

Yahavah will not interfere with a person if they say “I do not desire anything from God,” some believers can go from believing one thing, to another, to another and then just give up all together if something just is to outrageous for them to accept and perhaps they decide to walk away, falling away, can they come back? I believe so, if they decide to allow Yahavah in.

Remember when you read “Jesus is the one standing at the door knocking?” You can let him in, and you can send him on his way if one chooses too.
 

MatthewG

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Amen, and especially in this case where a few Misrepresented and Misinterpreted verses are
use to Obscure (violating Rule #6 of Bible study Rules) The Vast Multitude Of Plain And Clear
Passages Of God's Sound Doctrine:


God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Amen.
Isn’t it a day by day choice though? It’s definitely not about insecurity in Christ.
I’m no talking about people who may have doubts about God either.

It’s about renouncing one’s prior position.
 

Spyder

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Yes…
Heb 13:
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Glory to God,
Taken
That is the English translation that should be corrected because "forever" is not the same as "for the ages." The verse should read:

Heb 13: 6-8 So that we have courage to say, "The Lord is my Helper, and I shall not be afraid of what man shall be doing to me!" Be remembering those of your leaders who speak to you the word of God, contemplating the sequel of their behavior, whose faith be imitating Jesus Christ, yesterday and today, is the Same One for the ages also.

Ages is not everlasting. It has an end.
 

mailmandan

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Once saved, always saved is a myth.

:rolleyes: Uh No!

Heb 10:
14: For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Glory to God,
Taken
Amen! Hebrews 10:10 - And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
 
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Spyder

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Is the bible true? Is it "God breathed?"

If so, do not all scripture passages support the same truth? Then, one must not accept a doctrine that is no confirmed in all scripture.

Matthew 7:21 ESV Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 10:22 ESV And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 13:3-8 ESV And he told them many things in parables, saying: “A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away. Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Matthew 24:13 ESV But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Mark 13:13 ESV And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Luke 8:13 ESV And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

John 3:36 ESV Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 15:6 ESV If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Romans 2:6-8 ESV He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

Romans 8:12-13 ESV So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Romans 11:19-22 ESV Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

1 Corinthians 10:12 ESV Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

1 Corinthians 15:2 ESV And by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

Galatians 4:9 ESV But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?

Galatians 6:8-9 ESV For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

1 Timothy 4:1 ESV Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Hebrews 3:12-14 ESV Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Hebrews 5:9 ESV And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Hebrews 10:26 ESV For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

James 5:19-20 ESV My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

2 Peter 1:10 ESV Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

2 Peter 2:20-22 ESV For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Revelation 2:4-5 ESV “But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. .

Revelation 3:2-5 ESV Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you. Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.
 
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Spyder

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I don’t even think that book applies to us gentiles. For some reason, I just really do not believe it does. The first mention of the book of life is founded in the Old Testament, and there were people’s names already written in it I believe proclaimed in the New Testament, and I believe that judgement on Israel and the wrath of God came on them, and that sin, death, hell, Satan all of those things were conquered over for all people.

In Revelation though there are two descriptions and destinations outside of the kingdom, or inside of the Kingdom, I’m no so worried about having my name in that book on a personal level, I just believe in faith and trust God and hope one day to be with him.
Thank you for your response. Yes, books are mentioned in Daniel 7 - though no name is provided for them.

I know of the references to those within the city and those outside the city, but that still leaves the question of the one's not written in the Lamb's book being cast into the Lake of Fire. Can you clear this up for me?
 

MatthewG

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Thank you for your response. Yes, books are mentioned in Daniel 7 - though no name is provided for them.

I know of the references to those within the city and those outside the city, but that still leaves the question of the one's not written in the Lamb's book being cast into the Lake of Fire. Can you clear this up for me?
The judgements upon those who came out of hell, judgements of Satan and the beast and the false prophet, judgements upon the chained angels, the final judgement of Israel, with the 144,000 being saved, perhaps is whom it pertains to. I’m not sure being a gentile, not knowing very much about the book of life probably was not concerned about it as compared to an Hebrew whose culture it stims from.
 

Spyder

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I think if you only require what the scriptures say,any Christian required this,there would not be a divide in the church.

Because scripture,old and new testimonies of ,by,God, tell us Jesus was the Father.

If we recall the instructions to Moses,God said to tell Pharaoh, I Am, sent Moses to him.

Jesus referred to himself 7 times as I Am.
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:25-26


How many don't believe that? Many. When they insist we will die if we choose to revoke what God said is irrevocable; his free gift of Salvation by his grace .

Those who insist Jesus wasn't God,and Salvation isn't eternal,irrevocable.

What a combination of error that is.
Do you understand the whole concept of a covenant? I think, if you do, then you know a covenant can be broken. While it won't be on Yahweh's part, it is breakable from ours.
 

Taken

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That is the English translation that should be corrected because "forever" is not the same as "for the ages." The verse should read:

Heb 13: 6-8 So that we have courage to say, "The Lord is my Helper, and I shall not be afraid of what man shall be doing to me!" Be remembering those of your leaders who speak to you the word of God, contemplating the sequel of their behavior, whose faith be imitating Jesus Christ, yesterday and today, is the Same One for the ages also.

Ages is not everlasting. It has an end.

Jesus IS the NAME God GAVE His WORD…
Gods Word has no beginning, no ending….
However….there is AN AGE (are/timeframes) in the “MANNER” in which Gods WORD is “manifested’…(revealed), unto and for the Benefit of manKIND.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Behold

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Once saved, always saved is a myth.

Dont fight about it but explain why or why not?

I don’t believe it is viable because of Jesus parable of the sower. Also when Jesus explains you most abide in him. Also when Jesus talks about those who say lord lord let us in.

It is just a myth that is a lie; as much as people going to hell today is, and that Satan is out to get you still, praise God for the victory of Jesus Christ!

Salvation, is to have received Eternal Life.

Jesus said= "ALL that believe in me (born again) I give unto them/you.... ETERNAL LIFE, and you shall never go to Hell (Perish)".

Eternal Life is a Gift from God that is Salvation.
Jesus Himself is Eternal Life, and if you are born again, then you have "Christ in you, the Hope of Glory" (Glory is Heaven), so, you have Eternal Life in you, which is defined as being "IN Christ" who IS Eternal Life.

So, A born again believer's Eternal Life, is not Temporary, unless Jesus is not Eternal.
 

Taken

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All this still leaves me wondering why we would ever be told that we can be blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life. Does that not mean that we were, at one time, written in it?


God has SEVERAL…”accounting” BOOKS.

Gods BOOK OF LIFE…(imo…is the Name of Ever natural born manKIND of individual)
The NAMES in this Book ARE SUBJECT TO BEING BLOTTED OUT.
They would fall in the category, of Being in their finality of Bodily Death, dying AGAINST God…
* Their ultimate consequence…
dead body…no BLOOD Life in it.
Life of the soul…Gods Breath…returned to God.
Spirit of man, never…born again of Gods Seed.
Their Lifeless Body, Their Lifeless soul Destroyed…burned to ash…Remembered no more.

The Names in the LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE…
are
Dead Body’s (without BLOOD life)
Living souls, that remain Living, with Gods Breath of life.
Natural spirits of a mans seed, Re-born with Gods Seed…
Receive a New, (sinless, glorified) Body.
Living soul, Quickened (born again) spirit imparted into sinless, glorified risen Body.
….Now fully, perfectly, MADE holy WHOLE…
AND…
Once that manifestation has come into fruition…
The individual is ABLE “TO SEE” the Lord God “AS HE IS”….ie Spirit.
The NAMES…in the LAMBS BOOK of LIFE, are NAMES “of the saved”, that which CAN “NEVER BE BLOTTED OUT”…
Done deal…those individuals “ARE Sanctified”, once and Forever.

Also a BOOK that which accounts “stored treasures”….ie ..Works every individual DID during his natural life-time TO: GLORIFY GOD….
Those “efforts”….ie “works”…become a DEBT unto God…for which God…pays His debt unto that individual VIA “REWARDS” for “THOSE works”.

Quick reference.

Matt 6:
[19] Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
[20] But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:


Rev 20:
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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