Once saved, always saved is a myth.

[Michiah-Imla]

Why would a person not continue?

To end the suffering in the flesh that an evil world inflicts daily on holy men of God who strive to remain pure. And how many men will suffer to the point of bloodshed suffering wrongfully?

“Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.” (Hebrews 12:4)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To end the suffering in the flesh that an evil world inflicts daily on holy men of God who strive to remain pure. And how many men will suffer to the point of bloodshed suffering wrongfully?

“Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.” (Hebrews 12:4)

Yes,,

but those people never came to christ.. They never made the decision..

Why do you refuse to acknowledge your trying to earn your salvation?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You then claim we need to work to stay saved

I merely repeat what the Holy Bible says:

“…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

those people never came to christ

Those are lost.

I’m not discussing those who have nothing to lose to begin with.

I’m talking about those who believed the gospel and became holy by the blood of Christ.

If these fall away:

“…there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

“For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.” (2 Peter 2:21)

 

[MatthewG]

I merely repeat what the Holy Bible says:

“…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12)

That’s it.

You know I use to really be against the whole idea of sanctification but finally understand it’s done in a daily basis of abiding in Christ to now not desire to go and not pay attention or give no attention to God.

Believers receive deliverance from the “old man” becoming a “new creation in Christ” by rising again with him, in resurrection, which is a key definer of the Gospel in general.

It’s about the choice of an individual. God will allow them to leave and give them up over to their own desires. It’s individual responsibility some say, but it’s only in front of the Father. It has nothing to do with anyone else and their judgments- as God will see the heart.

Therefore not everyone who says “lord lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven” - it’s those who show faith and abide in Christ and bring forth fruits of love which is deliverance or salvation from a prior spiritually dead state.

 

[JunChosen]

@Eternally Grateful ive had enough. I told you already to stop quoting me. I will just put on ignore. It’s simple. You’re just being in your flesh currently and not the spirit, in my opinion.

@Eternally Grateful: You can't persuade a spirit that is not willing to listen. Remember the words of our Lord...
"And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them."



.

 

[BarneyFife]

Whats sad is when people fall away or lose faith - "they are deemed by those who believe in once saved always saved" - as "they were never really believers"

AMEN, MG!

Which effectively dissolves assurance of God's determination to save us.

It's so ironic that what is supposed to give assurance of salvation actually gives none at all.

If I know that I could be deceived into thinking I am irrevocably saved once and for all and later return to a life of sin only to find that I was never saved, then all I have to rely on is what amounts to "righteousness by sincerity," which may be fine and dandy for type A personalities with strong wills but, for those of us with plenty of "frequent stumbler miles," we need a Saviour we can depend on to pick us up when we fall.

I believed in eternal security for 18 years and all it did for me was to have me thinking I could never be saved because I kept failing the "sincerity" test. I thought: "How many times can I pull this backsliding stunt before God just says " Ephraim is joined to idols—leave him alone" (Hosea 4:17)?

Now that I've learned to "die daily" (1 Corinthians 15:31), my stumblings are increasingly fewer and farther between and I love and trust Him more than ever, so I know God is working on me and now I can concentrate on blessing my family and friends instead of worrying about how I'm going to manage slipping my slimy carcass between a crack between one of those pearly grates.

My dad is still struggling and suffering with this (and he was "saved" when Amos 'n' Andy was still on the radio), so much so that the only preacher he'll listen to anymore is Joel Osteen because he doesn't drag out the "Are you sure you're saved?" routine every Sunday.

Folks are free to believe as they see fit, but:

False assurance? None for me, thanks.


.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I merely repeat what the Holy Bible says:

“…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12)

See.

You refuse to admit you are trying to earn your salvation.

ps. Work out YOUR SALVATION, ie, take the salvation you have and all that comes with it AND WORK IT OUT>

Thats a bit different than to say work to earn your salvation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Those are lost.

I’m not discussing those who have nothing to lose to begin with.

I’m talking about those who believed the gospel and became holy by the blood of Christ.

If these fall away:

“…there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

“For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.” (2 Peter 2:21)

You still do not get it

THESE PEOPLE NEVER MADE THE DECISION.

They got close. maybe even walked with people in the church. But they never made the decision.

In the end, they will spend eternity saying they was this close and walked away.. It will be worse for them..

also remember, those people went back to the law.. They rejected the one sacrifice and went to continue their trust in animal sacrifice.

Again,, You are missing the point of how good we have to be to earn salvation.

Jesus said it, No one is good by God.

If we are going to earn it, We better be perfect as our father is perfect.. That is the requirement, You and I fall way short of that requirement

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That’s it.

You know I use to really be against the whole idea of sanctification but finally understand it’s done in a daily basis of abiding in Christ to now not desire to go and not pay attention or give no attention to God.

Believers receive deliverance from the “old man” becoming a “new creation in Christ” by rising again with him, in resurrection, which is a key definer of the Gospel in general.

It’s about the choice of an individual. God will allow them to leave and give them up over to their own desires. It’s individual responsibility some say, but it’s only in front of the Father. It has nothing to do with anyone else and their judgments- as God will see the heart.

Therefore not everyone who says “lord lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven” - it’s those who show faith and abide in Christ and bring forth fruits of love which is deliverance or salvation from a prior spiritually dead state.

Yes, Sanctification.

But your justification is not based on how sanctified you become,

it depends on how righteous Jesus was and the cross..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

AMEN, MG!

Which effectively dissolves assurance of God's determination to save us.

It's so ironic that what is supposed to give assurance of salvation actually gives none at all.

If I know that I could be deceived into thinking I am irrevocably saved once and for all and later return to a life of sin only to find that I was never saved, then all I have to rely on is what amounts to "righteousness by sincerity," which may be fine and dandy for type A personalities with strong wills but, for those of us with plenty of "frequent stumbler miles," we need a Saviour we can depend on to pick us up when we fall.

I believed in eternal security for 18 years and all it did for me was to have me thinking I could never be saved because I kept failing the "sincerity" test. I thought: "How many times can I pull this backsliding stunt before God just says " Ephraim is joined to idols—leave him alone" (Hosea 4:17)?

Now that I've learned to "die daily" (1 Corinthians 15:31), my stumblings are increasingly fewer and farther between and I love and trust Him more than ever, so I know God is working on me and now I can concentrate on blessing my family and friends instead of worrying about how I'm going to manage slipping my slimy carcass between a crack between one of those pearly grates.

My dad is still struggling and suffering with this (and he was "saved" when Amos 'n' Andy was still on the radio), so much so that the only preacher he'll listen to anymore is Joel Osteen because he doesn't drag out the "Are you sure you're saved?" routine every Sunday.

Folks are free to believe as they see fit, but:

False assurance? None for me, thanks.


.

False assurance is the assurance that we may not be saved in the end, that we do not really have eternal life. But we have to earn it

John wrote to keep us from this thinking

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

It is this knowledge that we are saved forever. that keeps us believing even when times of trouble overcome us, Including our struggle with sin.

Otherwise. what hop-e do we have? No hope at all.. That is not faith

Faith in God means you are assured. If you are not assured you have eternal life. then do you really have faith?

I would say no. Again, You have a false hope. you think you are saved, when are you really saved? I would have doubts

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful: You can't persuade a spirit that is not willing to listen. Remember the words of our Lord...
"And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them."



.

I agree,, But there is always hope. Plus I speak for others who may come in and see it. so they can see.

 

[marks]

You can though. To say one cannot, is lying to oneself. It’s a day to day, action.

You are saying you can override God's ownership? OK, but I don't believe that's true. Are we stronger than God? I should think not!

Much love!

 

[marks]

It is this knowledge that we are saved forever. that keeps us believing even when times of trouble overcome us, Including our struggle with sin.

Otherwise. what hop-e do we have? No hope at all.. That is not faith

Faith in God means you are assured. If you are not assured you have eternal life. then do you really have faith?

I would say no. Again, You have a false hope. you think you are saved, when are you really saved? I would have doubts

Peter makes this part clear:

1 Peter 1:3-5 KJV
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

False assurance is the assurance that we may not be saved in the end, that we do not really have eternal life. But we have to earn it

John wrote to keep us from this thinking

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

It is this knowledge that we are saved forever. that keeps us believing even when times of trouble overcome us, Including our struggle with sin.

Otherwise. what hop-e do we have? No hope at all.. That is not faith

Faith in God means you are assured. If you are not assured you have eternal life. then do you really have faith?

I would say no. Again, You have a false hope. you think you are saved, when are you really saved? I would have doubts

That's very edifying.

And typical.

.

 

[marks]

This is so unbiblical it’s crazy!

Actually this is what the verse states. Whether you accept it's saying or not, that's a different question. But there is no question about what these words say.

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You refuse to admit you are trying to earn your salvation.

I did not “earn” my forgiveness of sins.

But I do earn the prize of the high calling of God for not making a clown out of Christ and trampling Him under my feet by returning to sin again (Philippians 3:14; Hebrews 10:29).

“I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 3:14)

“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:29)

Work out YOUR SALVATION, ie, take the salvation you have and all that comes with it AND WORK IT OUT>

 

[MatthewG]

You are saying you can override God's ownership? OK, but I don't believe that's true. Are we stronger than God? I should think not!

Much love!

God let Adam and Eve choose. There are people out there that say God chose them and there is nothing they could do about it… while they may be humble in that state sometimes they can also come off as very cold. I’m not the judge of anyone’s heart. However a heart which you own, you by merit make a choice. But hey, people have to carry on with whatever makes them “feel comfortable.”

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You are missing the point of how good we have to be to earn salvation.

When you’re in the Spirit you preserve your salvation.

But if we turn away from the Spirit and go back into the flesh you will be in a lost state from which the holy scriptures warn you cannot come back from!

Or you can be saved by fire being delivered into Satan’s hand!

“To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” (1 Corinthians 5:5)

No Christian should invite such a fate!

 

[MatthewG]

@marks,

God gave people over to their own desires.

”Instead of honoring the divine greatness of God, who lives forever, they traded it for the worship of idols—things made to look like humans, who get sick and die, or like birds, animals, and snakes. People wanted only to do evil. So God left them and let them go their sinful way. And so they became completely immoral and used their bodies in shameful ways with each other.“
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1‬:‭23‬-‭24‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Romans 1:23-24 Instead of honoring the divine greatness of God, who lives forever, they traded it for the worship of idols—things made to look like humans, who get sick and die, or like birds, animals, and snakes. P | Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version

Instead of honoring the divine greatness of God, who lives forever, they traded it for the worship of idols—things made to look like humans, who get sick and die, or like birds, animals, and snakes. P

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