Who is “the new Moses”?

[MatthewG]

@Matthias, are you saying that though Moses was a real person, Moses was a picture and type for Christ Jesus to come? Moses brought forth the Law, Jesus Fulfilled the Law - that was why Moses showed up during the vision the transfiguration. Jesus also was the fulfillment of the promise of the Prophets, and that was why Elijah had shown up. Could Elijah also be a picture and type for Christ to come? Perhaps Daniel, and others when looking in the Old Testament? Cause if you are aiming at that, I would say there are many different pictures and types throughout all of the bible - which can help us by the Spirit to teach us.

 

[Matthias]

Is Jesus identified as the prophet like Moses in the NT?

”Luke identifies Jesus as the prophet like Moses in Acts 3:22 more clearly than in any other text in Lk-Acts.“

The image of Jesus as the Prophet like Moses in Luke-Acts as advanced by Luke's reinterpretation of Deuteronomy 18:15, 18 in Acts 3:22 and 7:37

To determine whether Luke promotes Jesus as the Prophet like Moses after his resurrection, this dissertation examines Acts 3:22 and 7:37, two Lukan texts that contain Dt 18:15ff. The topic is analyzed in three stages. Dt 18:15, 18 in its original context as well as Old Testament traditions...

research.library.fordham.edu

It’s a simple matter for us to confirm whether or not this is true.

 

[Matthias]

Just for my edification, is your position that Jesus pre-existed as a thought in God’s plan?

For my edification, do you know what notional / ideal preexistence is?

What about Moses typology? Are you familiar with what that is?

 

[Matthias]

@Matthias, are you saying that though Moses was a real person, Moses was a picture and type for Christ Jesus to come? Moses brought forth the Law, Jesus Fulfilled the Law - that was why Moses showed up during the vision the transfiguration. Jesus also was the fulfillment of the promise of the Prophets, and that was why Elijah had shown up. Could Elijah also be a picture and type for Christ to come? Perhaps Daniel, and others when looking in the Old Testament? Cause if you are aiming at that, I would say there are many different pictures and types throughout all of the bible - which can help us by the Spirit to teach us.

Please see the link I provided in post #38. There are many examples of typology in addition to Moses typology.

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for directing me to that link, however just asking for you and your assessment. I dont normally just go to other(s) links about 93% of the time.

Love to you,
Matthew

 

[Matthias]

Thank you for directing me to that link, however just asking for you and your assessment. I dont normally just go to other(s) links about 93% of the time.

Love to you,
Matthew

My assessment is that Moses typology is valid in explaining how Jesus is the new Moses, irrespective of what I or anyone else believes in regard to the separate issue of literal vs. ideal preexistence.

 

[Wrangler]

For my edification, do you know what notional / ideal preexistence is?

What about Moses typology? Are you familiar with what that is?

No but I vaguely recall you writing on what you are calling notional / ideal preexistence. Just want to be clear.

FYI, I'm OK with that, just not too familiar with it.

 

[MatthewG]

My assessment is that Moses typology is valid in explaining how Jesus is the new Moses, irrespective of what I or anyone else believes in regard to the separate issue of literal vs. ideal preexistence.

Thank you Matthias,

Love to you,
Matthew

 

[Matthias]

No but I vaguely recall you writing on what you are calling notional / ideal preexistence. Just want to be clear.

FYI, I'm OK with that, just not too familiar with it.

Notional / ideal preexistence is a Hebraic concept.

Do you believe that people, places and things exist in the foreknowledge of God? If you do, then you believe in notional / ideal preexistence.

Do you believe that Jesus preexisted in the foreknowledge of God? If you do, then you believe in the notional / ideal preexistence of Jesus. If you don’t, then you don’t believe in the notional / ideal preexistence of Jesus.

The vast majority of Christians - trinitarians, binitarians and unitarians - don’t believe in the notional / ideal preexistence of Jesus. They believe in the literal preexistence of Jesus.

A minority of Christians - such as myself - believe in the ideal / notional preexistence of Jesus.

Some in this minority of Christians believe that Jesus was begotten some time before the creation of the heavens and the earth. Those who believe this have an Arian Christology.

A much smaller number of Christians in this minority believe that Jesus was begotten in the womb of his mother. Those who believe this have a Socinian Christology. I‘m in this group. I have a Socinian Christology.

 

[Wrangler]

Do you believe that Jesus preexisted in the foreknowledge of God? If you do, then you believe in the notional / ideal preexistence of Jesus. If you don’t, then you don’t believe in the notional / ideal preexistence of Jesus.

The vast majority of Christians - trinitarians, binitarians and unitarians - don’t believe in the notional / ideal preexistence of Jesus. They believe in the literal preexistence of Jesus.

Interesting. I don't get hung up on the type of preexistence - physical or notional / ideal in the foreknowledge of God.

My contention has always been in our equality with Jesus' humanity. Given that Jesus is a man and preexisted, it stands to reason that we too pre-existed. If our pre-existence is only in the foreknowledge of God, I'm OK with that. However, I do believe this stretches the common meaning of preexistence.

 

[Matthias]

Interesting. I don't get hung up on the type of preexistence - physical or notional / ideal in the foreknowledge of God.

My contention has always been in our equality with Jesus' humanity. Given that Jesus is a man and preexisted, it stands to reason that we too pre-existed. If our pre-existence is only in the foreknowledge of God, I'm OK with that. However, I do believe this stretches the common meaning of preexistence.

What is the common meaning of preexistence?

Would you say then that you believe you literally preexisted somewhere before you were begotten by your parents? That, in fact, you existed in some previous form before you began to exist as a human being?

 

[Matthias]

“Matthew uses ‘fulfillment citations‘ to prove that Jesus was the Jewish messiah. Matthew further emphasizes Jesus’ importance to Judaism by modeling his birth and ministry on Moses’ birth and mission: Jesus is the new Moses who has been appointed by God to free his people from bondage and to give the (new) law. According to Matthew, people do not need to choose between Jesus and Moses, nor must they choose between Jesus’ law and Moses’ law. Jesus is, for this author, the final interpreter of Mosaic law.”

https://global.oup.com/us/companion.websites/0195161238/studentresources/chapter6/#

Bold is mine.

 

[PS95]

It’s not uncommon to hear theologians refer to Jesus as “the new Moses”. Last week actor Jim Caviezel referred to Donald Trump as “the new Moses”.

There are theological and political implications associated with the concept of ”the new Moses.”

I don’t have an issue with referring to Jesus as “the new Moses.” For me, referring to Donald Trump - or anyone else - as “the news Moses” goes too far.

Jesus is “the news Moses” -> how do others feel about that?

Donald Trump (or anyone else) is “the new Moses” -> how do others feel about that?

People say a lot of stupid things when it comes to Trump. On both sides! Hitler or Moses huh? good grief.

 

[Matthias]

People say a lot of stupid things when it comes to Trump. On both sides!

It was a good vehicle into my topic.

Hitler or Moses huh? good grief.

Getting our theology from actors and politicians is foolishness.

The new Moses / Jesus of Nazareth. That’s boss.

 

[honeycomb]

Moses was only a type or example of a savior in that God chose him to deliver Israel from Pharaoh after 400 years of captivity. …but there is only One Savior of the world—Jesus Christ, Emmanuel, the King of kings and Lord of lords.

And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.

- 1 John 4:14

Petra

 

[Matthias]

Another “Jesus is the new Moses” sighting.

“As the devil said it would, the distribution of bread moved the crowd to acclaim Jesus as the New Moses, the provider, the Welfare King whom they had been waiting for.”

(John Howard Yoder, “The Politics of Jesus,” pp. 34,35)

 

[Matthias]

“A primary method for studying the Bible is called typology. According to John A. Hardin, S.J. in Catholic Dictionary, ‘ A biblical person, thing, action, or event that foreshadows new truths, new actions, or new events. A likeness must exist between the type and the archetype, but the latter is always greater. Both are independent of each other.’ Moses is a quintessential Christ-like figurein the Old Testament and Jesus is viewed as the New Moses in the Gospels.”

Why Catholics Must Have Bible A.D.D Part 10— Moses and Jesus - The Simple Catholic