Where was Jesus between his death and resurrection?

[Johann]

I'll keep posting verses to show you are more perfect way.

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly (not as a substitute for, but “on account of” the ungodly). Rom. 5:6.

3:18 Because Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, to bring you to God, by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit 1 Pe 3:18.

@Johann how did Christ suffer once for sins?

10:12 But when this priest had offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, he sat down at the right hand of God Heb 10:12.

Can you join the dots Johann?

Why was it essential DEATH have dominion over him?

F2F

Nowhere in these references about death reigning as a lord or master over Jesus Christ-4th time.
You are groping at thin air F2F.

J.

 

[face2face]

Nowhere in these references about death reigning as a lord or master over Jesus Christ-4th time.
You are groping at thin air F2F.

J.

"Death has no more dominion over him" Romans 6:9

How was the dominion removed J. your resistence is causing you issue

2:9 but we see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by God’s grace he would experience death on behalf of everyone Heb 2:9.

Let me take you to the next verse to futher explain this truth

6:10 For the death he died, he died to sin once for all, but the life he lives, he lives to God Romans 6:10

How did Jesus die to sin once?

Wow the questions are getting harder and you are running like a cheetah!

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Johann

Two important questions are with you

1. How did God remove the dominion of death from His Son?
2. How did Jesus die to sin once?

In answering these questions you need to consider why it was essential Jesus "taste" death and why it he was held under its dominion until his resurrection.

Hebrews 2 is a very important teaching

2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, he likewise shared in their humanity, so that through death he could destroy the one who holds the power of death (that is, the devil = SIN), 2:15 and set free those who were held in slavery all their lives by their fear of death. 2:16 For surely his concern is not for angels, but he is concerned for Abraham’s descendants. 2:17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people. 2 Heb 2:14–18.

1. Why "through" death?
2. What was destroyed "through" that death?
3. If Christ set free those (us) who were held in slavery of death, what was removed in Jesus that caused this freedom?
4. What made him eligable to become a merciful High Priest?

Plenty there for you to work through J.

F2F

 

[Taken]

"face2face, post: 1921607, member: 6846"]
No Taken - no such thing as bodily death its simply death! All of Christ tasted death!

* Knowledge is revealed in Scripture.

* Reasoning is the ability to harmonize Scripture in context.

* LOGICAL corrupted Understanding of Scripture can come from a mans limited Mind.

* Spiritual understanding of Scripture according to God, comes from the Lord God.

* There ARE things God Can NOT DO.

* God Can NOT DIE!

* God PREPARED a body for His WORD, in the Likeness … AS ….human man.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:


WHO is “me”…Gods WORD.
WHO is Gods WORD? JESUS
WHEN…he cometh into the world
PREPARED WHAT…a body
DO NOT WHAT…sacrifice
SACRIFICE NOT WHAt? …
His soul, His spirit, His spiritual body, His power….
BUT…SACRIFICE WHAT?…THAT prepared Body

“Jesus” IS the Truth, Life of God…and you think….Gods truth and Life can die?

UH…No!

“Christ” IS the POWER, WISDOM, SEED of God…and you think….Gods Power, wisdom, seed was Sacrificed?

UH…No!

WHEN a 30yr old man, CEO of a company, comes home from work, takes off his suit and puts on pajamas and crawls around on the floor with his toddler, both playing with the toddlers toys…and talking and even the man taking a drink out of the toddlers sippy cup….

Isn’t the man “making” himself “lower” than he was 2 hours earlier, conducting business at his job? Yes!

Did the man CEASE to BE a man BECAUSE he “APPEARS” …… AS .a toddler? No!

IS the man …. Speaking to the toddler in the fashion he speaks to his colleagues? Not Likely.

IS the man…. Speaking to the toddler in a fashion the toddler’s limited vocabulary can comprehend? Likely.

Does the mean the man CEASES to be a man Capable the conducting business on a corporate level with adult colleagues? No.

Jesus IS GOD, who appeared IN the flesh Likeness …… AS a HUMAN man

You should have Learned from Scriptural Knowledge….Human bodies Come from the Dust of the Earth….and return to dust of the earth
[B} Gods Word came forth OUT of Gods MOUTH and was Given a Prepared BODY, in the likeness ….. AS a plain JEWISH man….for WHEN He was to be SENT to Earth. [/B]

Did Gods Word CEASE to be God? No.
Did Gods Word Continue to REMAIN IN God, even when Gods Word was Sent forth out from God? Yes
Can Gods Word Die? No.

Spiritual understanding IS NOT the same thing ….AS….Logical Mindful understanding.

 

[face2face]

* Knowledge is revealed in Scripture.

* Reasoning is the ability to harmonize Scripture in context.

* LOGICAL corrupted Understanding of Scripture can come from a mans limited Mind.

* Spiritual understanding of Scripture according to God, comes from the Lord God.

* There ARE things God Can NOT DO.

* God Can NOT DIE!

* God PREPARED a body for His WORD, in the Likeness … AS ….human man.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:


WHO is “me”…Gods WORD.
WHO is Gods WORD? JESUS
WHEN…he cometh into the world
PREPARED WHAT…a body
DO NOT WHAT…sacrifice
SACRIFICE NOT WHAt? …
His soul, His spirit, His spiritual body, His power….
BUT…SACRIFICE WHAT?…THAT prepared Body

“Jesus” IS the Truth, Life of God…and you think….Gods truth and Life can die?

UH…No!

“Christ” IS the POWER, WISDOM, SEED of God…and you think….Gods Power, wisdom, seed was Sacrificed?

UH…No!

WHEN a 30yr old man, CEO of a company, comes home from work, takes off his suit and puts on pajamas and crawls around on the floor with his toddler, both playing with the toddlers toys…and talking and even the man taking a drink out of the toddlers sippy cup….

Isn’t the man “making” himself “lower” than he was 2 hours earlier, conducting business at his job? Yes!

Did the man CEASE to BE a man BECAUSE he “APPEARS” …… AS .a toddler? No!

IS the man …. Speaking to the toddler in the fashion he speaks to his colleagues? Not Likely.

IS the man…. Speaking to the toddler in a fashion the toddler’s limited vocabulary can comprehend? Likely.

Does the mean the man CEASES to be a man Capable the conducting business on a corporate level with adult colleagues? No.

Jesus IS GOD, who appeared IN the flesh Likeness …… AS a HUMAN man

You should have Learned from Scriptural Knowledge….Human bodies Come from the Dust of the Earth….and return to dust of the earth
[B} Gods Word came forth OUT of Gods MOUTH and was Given a Prepared BODY, in the likeness ….. AS a plain JEWISH man….for WHEN He was to be SENT to Earth.

Did Gods Word CEASE to be God? No.
Did Gods Word Continue to REMAIN IN God, even when Gods Word was Sent forth out from God? Yes
Can Gods Word Die? No.

Spiritual understanding IS NOT the same thing ….AS….Logical Mindful understanding.

Nothing in here deals with the subject at hand...its a rant isn't it Taken?

How did God remove deaths dominion from His Son?
Why did he taste death for everyone?
How did God condemn sin in the body of Jesus?

F2F

 

[Taken]

Nothing in here deals with the subject at hand...its a rant isn't it Taken?

How did God remove deaths dominion from His Son?
Why did he taste death for everyone?
How did God condemn sin in the body of Jesus?

F2F

Did the exampled CEO daddy, playing on the floor with his toddler….experience a toddlers experience? Yes.

And …. Did the daddy experience what the toddler experiences…MAKE that daddy a toddler? No.

Jesus’ PREPARED body… experienced the same….eating, sleeping, receiving charity, kindness, dusty road traveling, hate, unjust trial, beatings, pain, suffering …..AS…..human men suffer….even death…OF THAT BODY…

I get it…it makes NO SENSE to you…

 

[TheHC]

No, He was made alive in the spirit and then went to paradise in hell to preach to the people imprisoned down there in hell-sheol.

“…paradise in hell…”???

From where did you get this? Not from Scripture.

The concept of people immediately going to live in another room after their death, is not from the Bible. It is from pagan Greek philosophy.

The *only* hope the Bible holds out for dead people living again in the future, is the promised future Resurrection. (Acts 24:15) Nothing else.

For Jesus, his resurrection came three days after his death. He was the “firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep (in death).”
— 1 Corinthians 15:20
Yes, that’s what the text - and others - say about death.

What does “fallen asleep” mean, if it’s not really the condition the dead are in?

It explains why Jesus described Lazarus’ death as “sleeping”, @ John 11:11-14.

Ecclesiastes 9:5….
“The living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing at all.”


See Genesis 3:19; Psalm 146:3,4;
Ecclesiastes 3:19,20.

Have a good day.

 

[TheHC]

Those spirits were humans who have long been physically dead

No they weren’t. Human “spirits in prison”? How can that be, when the Bible clearly says “the spirit returns to God who gave it”? -Ecclesiastes 12:7

“The dead know nothing.”Ecclesiastes 9:5.

No, the spirits were the “angels that sinned” which Peter mentioned @ 2 Peter 2:4, thrown into “Tartarus”, which is a prison-like, spiritually abased condition.

 

[TheHC]

I'm not yelling, just telling it how it is - even your response shows no humility at all.

Please! I couldn’t let this go, @Aunty Jane .

She’s actually way more humble than you!

What she posts, are not her own ideas.
She’s humble enough to accept who has been given accurate understanding of Scripture.

Just as the 1st-Century Christians showed humility & listened to the Apostles (Acts 2:42; Acts 16:4,5), we know the Organization which Jesus & his Father Jehovah are using today.

We don’t promote our individual ideas.

Whose ideas do you promote? And can you provide evidence for that?

Who is your “faithful and discreet slave”? (Matthew 24:45) Yourself?

 

[Scott Downey]

“…paradise in hell…”???

From where did you get this? Not from Scripture.

The concept of people immediately going to live in another room after their death, is not from the Bible. It is from pagan Greek philosophy.

The *only* hope the Bible holds out for dead people living again in the future, is the promised future Resurrection. (Acts 24:15) Nothing else.

For Jesus, his resurrection came three days after his death. He was the “firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep (in death).”
— 1 Corinthians 15:20
Yes, that’s what the text - and others - say about death.

What does “fallen asleep” mean, if it’s not really the condition the dead are in?

It explains why Jesus described Lazarus’ death as “sleeping”, @ John 11:11-14.

Ecclesiastes 9:5….
“The living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing at all.”


See Genesis 3:19; Psalm 146:3,4;
Ecclesiastes 3:19,20.

Have a good day.

The young girl who died, what did Christ say about her?

Your teaching is she is dead, ceased, passed from existence

Christ says about her she is not dead but sleeping. The body at death is described in scripture as sleeping so her body did die, her own spirit - soil did not cease to exist.

18 While He spoke these things to them, behold, a ruler came and worshiped Him, saying, “My daughter has just died, but come and lay Your hand on her and she will live.” 19 So Jesus arose and followed him, and so did His disciples.

20 And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment. 21 For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.” 22 But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, “Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And the woman was made well from that hour.

23 When Jesus came into the ruler’s house, and saw the flute players and the noisy crowd wailing, 24 He said to them, “Make room, for the girl is not dead, but sleeping.” And they ridiculed Him. 25 But when the crowd was put outside, He went in and took her by the hand, and the girl arose. 26 And the report of this went out into all that land.

 

[Scott Downey]

Wake is bodily alive
Sleep us bodily dead
Yet as it says, even the dead live together with HIM

So they who are dead do not simply cease to exist as if they never were until the resurrection

9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore [a]comfort each other and [b]edify one another, just as you also are doing.

Further proof sleep is used to describe physical death

29 For he who eats and drinks [a]in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the [b]Lord’s body.
30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many [c]sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.

 

[Brakelite]

Who said anything about a second chance? All God said was that Jesus went and preached to the spirits of those who died before teh flood and were imprisoned. If you do not have a conscious existence you cannot be im prison now can you.

Correct. Only living people can be in prison and hear the call of the gospel. Those people who in Noah's heard the message, did so through the preaching of Noah, whilst they were in the prison house and in bondage to sin.
“And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness (by the Spirit of God) bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; ”
2 Peter 2:5 KJV

“18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in thei flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also (by the Spirit) he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when (when were they preached to? In the days of Noah... not in the days of Christ on the grave) once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. ”
1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV

 

[wooddog]

Your reasoning appears to be flawed, which I can see reflected in the way the questions are formatted.
I enjoy Ultley on this verse, "one verse theology"


"Rabbi" In John this means "teacher" (cf. John 1:38; 4:31; Mark 9:5; 11:21). One of the things that bothered the Jewish leaders was that Jesus had not attended one of the rabbinical theological schools. He had no Talmudic study after local synagogue study in Nazareth.

"You have come from God" This clause is placed first in the sentence for emphasis. This possibly alludes to the prophecy of Deut. 18:15, 18. Nicodemus recognized the power of Jesus' works and words, but this did not mean he was spiritually right with God.

"unless God is with Him" This is a THIRD CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCE which means potential reality.

SPECIAL TOPIC: GREEK GRAMMATICAL TERMS, VII

3:3,5,11 "truly, truly" This is literally "Amen, amen." It is from the OT word for "faith." It is from the root "to be firm" or "to be sure." Jesus used its doubling to preface significant statements. It was also later used as a way of affirming truthful statements. The initial doubling is unique to John's Gospel. These repeated doublings of the term "amen" reveal the stages in the dialogue between Jesus and Nicodemus.

SPECIAL TOPIC: AMEN

3:3 "unless one is" This is also a third class conditional sentence, like Nicodemus' statement in John 3:2.

NASB, NKJV, TEV, REB, Peshitta  "born again"
NRSV, NJB  "born from above"
This is AORIST PASSIVE SUBJUNCTIVE. The word (anōthen) can mean

"physically born a second time"
"born from the beginning" (cf. Acts 26:4)
"born from above," which fits this context (cf. John 3:7,31; 19:11)
This is probably another example of John's use of terms that have two meanings (double entendre), both of which are true (cf. Bauer, Arndt, Gengrich and Danker's A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, p. 77). As is obvious from John 3:4, Nicodemus understood it as option # 1. John and Peter (cf. 1 Pet. 1:23) use this familial imagery for salvation as Paul uses the term "adoption." The focus is on the Father's acts in begetting (cf. John 1:13). Salvation is a gift and act of God (cf. John 1:12-13; Rom. 3:21-24; 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9).

The footnote to George Lamsa's translation of the Peshitta says, "'Born again' in northern Aramaic, means to change one's thoughts and habits. Nicodemus spoke southern Aramaic and hence, did not understand Jesus."

SPECIAL TOPIC: BORN AGAIN

"he cannot see" This idiomatic phrase is paralleled in John 3:5 with "cannot enter."

"the kingdom of God" This phrase is used only twice in John (cf. John 3:5). This is such a key phrase in the Synoptic Gospels. Jesus' first and last sermons, and most of His parables, dealt with this topic. It refers to the reign of God in human hearts now that will one day be over all the earth (cf. Matt. 6:10)! It is surprising that John uses this phrase only twice (and never in Jesus' parables).

For John the phrase "eternal life" is a key term and imagery for the Kingdom of God.

The phrase relates to the eschatological (end-time) thrust of Jesus' teachings. This "already, but not yet" theological paradox relates to the Jewish concept of two ages, the current evil age and the righteous age to come which will be inaugurated by the Messiah. The Jews expected only one coming of a Sprit-empowered military leader (like the Judges in the OT). The two comings of Jesus caused an overlapping of the two ages. The Kingdom of God has broken into human history with the incarnation at Bethlehem. However, Jesus came not as the military conqueror of Revelation 19, but as the Suffering Servant (cf. Isaiah 53) and humble leader (cf. Zech. 9:9). The Kingdom, therefore, is inaugurated (cf. Matt. 3:2; 4:17; 10:7; 11:12; 12:28; Mark 1:15; Luke 9:2,11; 11:20; 21:31-32) but not consummated (cf. Matt. 6:10; 16:28; 26:64).

Believers live in the tension between these two ages. They have resurrection life, but they still are dying physically. They are freed from the power of sin, yet they still sin. They live in the eschatological tension of the already and the not yet!

A helpful expression of the tension of the already-but-not-yet in John is found in Frank Stagg's New Testament Theology:

"The Gospel of John is emphatic about a future coming (14:3,18 f.,28; 16:16,22) and it speaks clearly of the resurrection and final judgment 'in the last day' (5:28 f.; 6:39 f., 44,54; 11:24; 12:48); yet throughout this Fourth Gospel, eternal life, judgment, and resurrection are present realities (3:18 f.; 4:23; 5:25; 6:54; 11:23 ff.; 12:28,31; 13:31 f.; 14:17; 17:26)" (p. 311).

SPECIAL TOPIC: THIS AGE AND THE AGE TO COME

SPECIAL TOPIC: THE KINGDOM OF GOD

SPECIAL TOPIC: MESSIAH

?JOHN 3:4-8

NASB (UPDATED) TEXT: JOHN 3:4-8
4Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" 5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again. 8The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.'"

3:5 "unless one is born of water and the Spirit" This is another THIRD CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCE. There may be a contrast (so typical of John's writings) between

the physical versus the spiritual (no ARTICLE with "spirit")
the earthly versus the heavenly
This contrast is implied in John 3:6.

The theories for the meaning of "water" are

the rabbis use it of male semen
the water of the amniotic sac of child birth
John's baptism symbolizing repentance (cf. John 1:26; 3:23)
the OT background meaning ceremonial sprinkling by the Spirit (cf. Ezek. 36:25-27)
Christian baptism (although Nicodemus could not have understood it that way, first mentioned by Justin and Irenaeus)
In context theory #3, John the Baptist's water baptism and John's statement about the Messiah's baptizing with the Holy Spirit—must be the most obvious meanings. Birth, in this context, is imagery and we must not let Nicodemus' misunderstanding of the terms dominate the interpretation. Therefore, theory #1 is inappropriate. Although Nicodemus would not have understood Jesus' words as referring to later Christian baptism, John the Apostle often interjects his theology into the historical words of Jesus (cf. John 3:14-21).

Theory #2 would fit John's dualism of above and below, God's realm and the earthly realm. In defining these terms one must determine whether they are contrasting (#1 or #2) or complementary (#4).

D. A. Carson, Exegetical Fallacies, mentions another option: that both words refer to one birth, an eschatological birth following Ezek. 36:25-27, which describes the "new covenant" of Jer. 31:31-34 (p. 42).

F. F. Bruce, Answers to Questions, also sees Ezekiel as the OT allusion behind Jesus' words. It may even have been a reference to proselyte baptism, which Nicodemus, a noted rabbinical teacher, must now do! (p. 67).

John 3

Are you "up" for the task?

J.

When was the man Jesus Christ born again? a) at his conception b) at his birth c) at his baptism d) at his death e) in the tomb f) none of the above

 

[Scott Downey]

When was the man Jesus Christ born again? a) at his conception b) at his birth c) at his baptism d) at his death e) in the tomb f) none of the above

Jesus being the Son of God was in no need of being born again, being the Word of God in the flesh
To say someone must be born again presumes they are a lost sinner.

Perhaps you are saying Jesus was born with an evil spirit? And not holy at his birth?

 

[Scott Downey]

Matthew 1:18

Christ Born of Mary​

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

 

[face2face]

Please! I couldn’t let this go, @Aunty Jane .

She’s actually way more humble than you!

And by humilty you mean she is able to admit when she is wrong? Is this the type of humilty you refer to?

Aunty Jane responds to posts and when the teachings don't align with hers she walks. It's happened so many times now it's pointless replying to her posts.

And it's clear you have a bias for her - thats obvious!

What she posts, are not her own ideas.

Correct, they are an organisations ideas which she belongs to, correct? And when those ideas are refuted with evidence what does Jane do HC?

Be honest!

She’s humble enough to accept who has been given accurate understanding of Scripture.

And in relation to Ezek 28 & Genesis 3 she is way outside of the text and forces on it what she wills. So many threads have proven this to be true.

Just as the 1st-Century Christians showed humility & listened to the Apostles (Acts 2:42; Acts 16:4,5), we know the Organization which Jesus & his Father Jehovah are using today.

You are entitled to that view knowing it is one which you cannot prove no more than I can of my body. The Lord knows those who are His.

We don’t promote our individual ideas.

Whose ideas do you promote? And can you provide evidence for that?

Who is your “faithful and discreet slave”? (Matthew 24:45) Yourself?

Well, I am not cut in two and trust those of like precious faith will be treated with kindness when the Master of the House comes. The truth is HC is your body the JW's left the House of God which remains defiled to this day...do you think you are the only ones who vacated a desolate house?

Keiw, Aunty Jane and you showed no understanding at all of Genesis 3 - not one single divine principle was acknowledged or even discussed. In your pride and arrogance you judged the first pair as being unworthy of salvation, even though God demonstrated to you His atoning principles.

This will forever stand against you until such time as you acknowledge your false teaching.

So please don't claim humility if you are unable to open the Word of God and speak to it with the clear intent of being taught from it.

Also, be consistent! Jane claims one thing then does another! If I'm on ignore be true to your word.

F2F

 

[face2face]

The young girl who died, what did Christ say about her?

Your teaching is she is dead, ceased, passed from existence

Christ says about her she is not dead but sleeping. The body at death is described in scripture as sleeping so her body did die, her own spirit - soil did not cease to exist.

18 While He spoke these things to them, behold, a ruler came and worshiped Him, saying, “My daughter has just died, but come and lay Your hand on her and she will live.” 19 So Jesus arose and followed him, and so did His disciples.

20 And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment. 21 For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.” 22 But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, “Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And the woman was made well from that hour.

23 When Jesus came into the ruler’s house, and saw the flute players and the noisy crowd wailing, 24 He said to them, “Make room, for the girl is not dead, but sleeping.” And they ridiculed Him. 25 But when the crowd was put outside, He went in and took her by the hand, and the girl arose. 26 And the report of this went out into all that land.

Scott, sleep speaks to a persons life being hid in Christ, to mean the person now deceased while is totally and utterly gone, dies in the knowledge their life is known by God and can be restored at the set time.

This is different of those who perish without hope.

Job 19:25 I know that my redeemer[a] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.[b]
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

Job understood the state of the dead and expressed his faith in a redeemer.

F2F

 

[face2face]

When was the man Jesus Christ born again? a) at his conception b) at his birth c) at his baptism d) at his death e) in the tomb f) none of the above

wooddog

Here is the answer...

Jesus entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. Hebrews 9:12

1. Did Jesus benefit from his own death?
2. Did Jesus require saving, and if so, from what?

Where in the Bible are we told Jesus required saving - not from sin but something else!

F2F

 

[Scott Downey]

Scott, sleep speaks to a persons life being hid in Christ, to mean the person now deceased while is totally and utterly gone, dies in the knowledge their life is known by God and can be restored at the set time.

This is different of those who perish without hope.

Job 19:25 I know that my redeemer[a] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.[b]
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

Job understood the state of the dead and expressed his faith in a redeemer.

F2F

What you teach is what you were taught as a system of beliefs.
At death believers are present with the Lord.
No being ever ceases to exist, they endure.
Same with demons. Unsaved people go to where demons go eventually at the judgement.

They go into everlasting punishment, which is conscious imprisoned punishment or what point is there to a fiery hell.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[face2face]

What you teach is what you were taught as a system of beliefs.
At death believers are present with the Lord.
No being ever ceases to exist, they endure.
Same with demons. Unsaved people go to where demons go eventually at the judgement.

They go into everlasting punishment, which is conscious imprisoned punishment or what point is there to a fiery hell.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Okay so let’s get a few facts out of the way first.

Context: “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

So you have quoted a future event where Christ will sit in judgement which will start at the house of God and to those responsible for judgment.

The green text is clearly what you are eluding too.

Those who have been raised from the dead and those gathered at the time of his coming.

Both outcomes are everlasting

1. Everlasting life (mortal puts on immortality)
2. Everlasting Death (punishment is found in the everlasting nature of death - perish)

Many (not all!) of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake— some to everlasting life, and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence Da 12:2.

The perishing of the rejected is spoken of as a matter of shame and we are told the memory of them is forgotten.

So why do you believe these things?

Someone has placed "notions" in your mind of a place of torment which does not exist, only in the minds of those who perpetuate them.

The Bible only ever speaks of eternal life and eternal death - though the language adopted to eternal death is severe and conveys the permanent nature of death.

Hope that helps.

F2F