Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

[Doug]

You say you don't dismiss my points, but you do. You don't address them at all. I'm done.

You said......Where does that verse say "Gentile nations"? Nowhere. It just says "the nations".

I presented scripture that proved the nations could only be Gentile nations....Israel wasnt lumped together with Gentile nations....they were separate......if you want to say my answers are dismissive then fine......I will always be happy for discussions

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You said......Where does that verse say "Gentile nations"? Nowhere. It just says "the nations".

I presented scripture that proved the nations could only be Gentile nations....Israel wasnt lumped together with Gentile nations....they were separate......if you want to say my answers are dismissive then fine......I will always be happy for discussions

I say you are dismissive because you don't specifically address most of what I say. You didn't address the rest of what I said about what the word can mean such as in Revelation 20:7-9 where it refers to individuals from throughout the world rather than nations because they number "as the sand of the sea". Why did you not give any thoughts on that?

You are trying to make it as if the word "nations", which is translated from the Greek word "ethnos", can only mean one thing, but that is not the case. I'd show you the definitions of the Greek word, but I already know that you don't care about that and think that our English translations are perfect.

Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Since you think any reference to "nations" refers to Gentile nations, can you tell me which Gentile nations Jesus's disciples baptized? How is it possible to baptize a nation? And why would Jesus tell them to make disciples of and only baptize Gentile nations but not Israel after He had told them "you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” (Acts 1:8)?

 

[WPM]

Why would that be the case in a Gentile location? But, even "primarily Jewish" churches would at least include a few Gentiles. So, there is no basis whatsoever for thinking that there were no Gentile believers in those churches in those Gentile locations.


That passage does NOT say Gentiles can't be kings and priests. Have you never read the New Testament? Gentile believers have been brought together as one with Jewish believers by the blood of Christ (Ephesians 2:11-22) as "fellow citizens" and "fellow heirs", so the promises made to Israel apply to Gentile believers as well. This is taught throughout the New Testament.

He is so besotted by natural Israel that he cannot see the Gospel spreading to the nations and enlightening the Gentiles. He does not see the move from the natural physical literal and visible to the spiritual supernatural invisible and heavenly.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He is so besotted by natural Israel that he cannot see the Gospel spreading to the nations and enlightening the Gentiles. He does not see the move from the natural physical literal and visible to the spiritual supernatural invisible and heavenly.

Yep. He does not appear to be ready for solid food.

1 Corinthians 3:1 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.

 

[covenantee]

it only provided salvation for the Gentiles thru Israel

The Old Covenant was identical for Gentiles and Jews. Its privileges, responsibilities, and penalties (including death) were identical.

God slew both by the thousands when they disobeyed and rebelled. Numbers 25:9

Leviticus 24
22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.

 

[Doug]

I say you are dismissive because you don't specifically address most of what I say. You didn't address the rest of what I said about what the word can mean such as in Revelation 20:7-9 where it refers to individuals from throughout the world rather than nations because they number "as the sand of the sea". Why did you not give any thoughts on that?

I dont see the relevance in saying ruling over the nations and ruling over individuals makes any difference........of course nations are made up of individuals.....the fact remains Israel will judge Gentiles

 

[Doug]

You are trying to make it as if the word "nations", which is translated from the Greek word "ethnos", can only mean one thing, but that is not the case. I'd show you the definitions of the Greek word, but I already know that you don't care about that and think that our English translations are perfect.

I dont question the KJV translations.....often the same word can be translated using different words....I cant judge whether or not the translators picked the right word

 

[Doug]

Since you think any reference to "nations" refers to Gentile nations, can you tell me which Gentile nations Jesus's disciples baptized? How is it possible to baptize a nation? And why would Jesus tell them to make disciples of and only baptize Gentile nations but not Israel after He had told them "you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” (Acts 1:8)?

The disciples never got out of Israel plus they abdicated their command to Paul by deciding to just go to the Jews Gal 2:9

it is common sense that a nation defines a geographic area comprised of people.....they would be baptizing people

Israel was commanded to be baptized already by John and Peter and others

The disciples in Acts 1:8 were given power by the Holy Ghost to be witnesses

 

[Doug]

The Old Covenant was identical for Gentiles and Jews. Its privileges, responsibilities, and penalties (including death) were identical.

God slew both by the thousands when they disobeyed and rebelled. Numbers 25:9

Leviticus 24
22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.

[Isa 56:6-7 KJV] 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Yes Gentiles had to keep the covenant to be blessed into the kingdom and the house of prayer

 

[covenantee]

[Isa 56:6-7 KJV] 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Yes Gentiles had to keep the covenant to be blessed into the kingdom and the house of prayer

Yes, and it was the same Covenant as for the Jews.

 

[WPM]

the fact remains Israel will judge Gentiles

More Zionist fake news. The opposite is the truth. Elect Gentiles will judge Christ-rejecting Israel.

Jesus confirms: in Matthew 12:41-42: "men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here."

 

[Doug]

Yes, and it was the same Covenant as for the Jews.

Right,,,,,,,,but what is your point if I may ask.....what does it mean Gentiles could come to God by keeping the covenant

 

[covenantee]

Right,,,,,,,,but what is your point if I may ask.....what does it mean Gentiles could come to God by keeping the covenant

The point is that the Israelites' relationship with God had nothing to do with their ancestry, and everything to do with their faithfulness and obedience to Him and His Covenant.

Thus no difference in God's eyes between Jew and Gentile.

 

[Doug]

More Zionist fake news. The opposite is the truth. Elect Gentiles will judge Christ-rejecting Israel.

Jesus confirms: in Matthew 12:41-42: "men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here."

Christ will rule over the nations
[Rev 19:15 KJV] 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Jesus will give authority over cities to faithful servants of Israel
[Luk 19:17 KJV] 17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

believing Israel will reign with him
[Rev 5:10 KJV] 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

[Doug]

The point is that the Israelites' relationship with God had nothing to do with their ancestry, and everything to do with their faithfulness and obedience to Him and His Covenant.

Thus no difference in God's eyes between Jew and Gentile.

ok I agree with that

 

[Doug]

The point is that the Israelites' relationship with God had nothing to do with their ancestry, and everything to do with their faithfulness and obedience to Him and His Covenant.

Thus no difference in God's eyes between Jew and Gentile.

But that doesnt warrent saying Gentiles are included in Exodus 19:5-6.........[Exo 19:5-6 KJV] 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel...............Gentiles could not be the children of Israel

 

[WPM]

Christ will rule over the nations
[Rev 19:15 KJV] 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Jesus will give authority over cike dealing with the cults. ties to faithful servants of Israel
[Luk 19:17 KJV] 17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

believing Israel will reign with him
[Rev 5:10 KJV] 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

More twisting of Scripture to support your false teaching. Your teachers have deceived you. It is like engaging with the cults. Israel is not even mentioned in these quoted passages.

Take your Zionist blinkers off.

You cannot support anything you claim with hard Scripture. You still haven't presented any evidence to prove the righteous are now in Abraham's bosom and that is paradise. This typifies your approach.

 

[WPM]

But that doesnt warrent saying Gentiles are included in Exodus 19:5-6.........[Exo 19:5-6 KJV] 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel...............Gentiles could not be the children of Israel

That is talking about elect Israel, not unbelieving Jews. Read the text!

 

[Doug]

That is talking about elect Israel, not unbelieving Jews. Read the text!

He was saying to Israel IF they keep his covenant they would be priests

 

[WPM]

He was saying to Israel IF they keep his covenant they would be priests

No. It is time for you to move out of the old covenant and into the new covenant.